The Sexual Assault problem

[caulfield12]

She was a pretty famous lingerie/fitness model who eventually became a Playboy model and actress...

 

She has made appearances as a politically conservative commentator on such Fox News shows as 'Hannity' and 'Red Eye'. [5][6] wikipedia

 

So the defense is going to be that it’s a political hit job and 2) that photo was taken jokingly with lots and lots of people around on the plane, so very poor taste/trying to be funny in an inappropriate way vs. a “fireable offense.” Of course, Franken was better known for being a comedian/book writer than politician at that point.

 

My sense is that this gives Trump and Moore some political cover (both sides are guilty!!!) and there’s going to be tremendous pressure to resign from the Democratic Party despite his high popularity.

 

Do some of the Congresswomen/staffers/pages start naming names now? Will it get any traction without visual evidence or recordings? If current political leaders or celebs took similar pictures in high school or college (with lots of witnesses around), especially at parties where heavy drinking was involved...does that end their career/s as well or get excused as a “youthful indiscretion?”

Edited November 16, 2017 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

She was a pretty famous lingerie/fitness model who eventually became a Playboy model and actress...

 

She has made appearances as a politically conservative commentator on such Fox News shows as 'Hannity' and 'Red Eye'. [5][6] wikipedia

 

So the defense is going to be that it’s a political hit job and 2) that photo was taken jokingly with lots and lots of people around on the plane, so very poor taste/trying to be funny in an inappropriate way vs. a “fireable offense.” Of course, Franken was better known for being a comedian/book writer than politician at that point.

 

My sense is that this gives Trump and Moore some political cover (both sides are guilty!!!) and there’s going to be tremendous pressure to resign from the Democratic Party despite his high popularity.

It's not just a photo, there's an article to go with it. The article includes the "Ewwwww".

[BigSqwert]

No excuse for Franken. Get him out of here.

[Soxbadger]

It's not just a photo, there's an article to go with it. The article includes the "Ewwwww".

 

The problem with the article is that there is no way to know whether Franken or Tweeden is telling the truth. As Rock alluded to, there are videos of Tweeden with Robin Williams where she wraps her legs around him in a sexually way for laughs at a similar USO event.

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone else comes out against Franken.

 

[caulfield12]

The problem with the article is that there is no way to know whether Franken or Tweeden is telling the truth. As Rock alluded to, there are videos of Tweeden with Robin Williams where she wraps her legs around him in a sexually way for laughs at a similar USO event.

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone else comes out against Franken.

 

Yes, therein lies the issue.

 

How many other accusations equals corroboration in the public eye?

 

Weinstein and Spacey number in the fifties by now. Moore has at least six. Trump had 10-15...plus the whole Russia thing, the Access Hollywood tape, the allegations about terrible behavior during Miss Universe/Miss Teen USA/Miss USA pageants. We all know about Bill Clinton and GHW Bush now.

[Jenksismyhero]

The problem with the article is that there is no way to know whether Franken or Tweeden is telling the truth. As Rock alluded to, there are videos of Tweeden with Robin Williams where she wraps her legs around him in a sexually way for laughs at a similar USO event.

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone else comes out against Franken.

 

I don't think this matters much. If a woman likes sex that doesn't mean she consents to all sex. That's basically your analogy there.

 

Also, with the way this has all gone, in the court of public opinion, there is no innocent until proven guilty. If someone makes a claim, we believe it and then respond accordingly.

 

[Quin]

Franken calling for an investigation. Published a full apology.

 

At least he's owning it. He'd have the easiest case of "political attack" ever, but he's owning it.

[Balta1701]

I don't think this matters much. If a woman likes sex that doesn't mean she consents to all sex. That's basically your analogy there.

 

Also, with the way this has all gone, in the court of public opinion, there is no innocent until proven guilty. If someone makes a claim, we believe it and then respond accordingly.

Frankly, you can't exactly say "I'm innocent of this and they made it up" when they also have that photo. And then throw in any corroborating statement from a boyfriend/spouse about "They told me at the time", and it's not "no innocent until proven guilty", it's "ewwww WTF were you doing you jagoff go away".

[Soxbadger]

I don't think this matters much. If a woman likes sex that doesn't mean she consents to all sex. That's basically your analogy there.

 

Also, with the way this has all gone, in the court of public opinion, there is no innocent until proven guilty. If someone makes a claim, we believe it and then respond accordingly.

 

The first part isnt the analogy at all.

 

Franken is saying that it was part of a comedic routine. There is evidence that in other comedic routines there were sexual jokes. If there were absolutely no other sexual jokes, it would definitely bolster her allegations.

 

And we both know that just because someone has sex with one person, doesnt mean they consent with another. That is not even close to what is being alleged here.

 

I dont really care what court of public opinion is. Just last night before the Franken thing I was saying that there is a possibility that one of Moore's accusers forged his signature. Fair is fair, whether they are my ally or opponent.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

The first part isnt the analogy at all.

 

Franken is saying that it was part of a comedic routine. Their is evidence that in other comedic routines there were sexual jokes. If there were absolutely no other sexual jokes, it would definitely bolster her allegations.

 

And we both know that just because someone has sex with one person, doesnt mean they consent with another. That is not even close to what is being alleged here.

 

I dont really care what court of public opinion is. Just last night before the Franken thing I was saying that there is a possibility that one of Moore's accusers forged his signature. Fair is fair, whether they are my ally or opponent.

 

I see, you're relating it to the routine. I thought you were just saying because she was open sexually in one situation she probably was in this one.

 

[Soxbadger]

I see, you're relating it to the routine. I thought you were just saying because she was open sexually in one situation she probably was in this one.

 

Yeah, sorry if that wasnt clear.

 

 

[Reddy]

For political and optics reasons, Franken should resign. Based on his statement, if the context (Moore/Trump) were different, I'd defend him staying. But the context isn't different, and not resigning undercuts the moral high ground on issues of sexual harassment/assault that the Dems wish to have.

[GoSox05]

@DavidKlion

52m52 minutes ago

 

Franken should resign and be replaced but Democrats should also call on Trump to resign, since he is a serial rapist and a harasser. Journalists should ask Republicans about that every day.

 

 

This 100%.

Edited November 16, 2017 by GoSox05

[Jenksismyhero]

For political and optics reasons, Franken should resign. Based on his statement, if the context (Moore/Trump) were different, I'd defend him staying. But the context isn't different, and not resigning undercuts the moral high ground on issues of sexual harassment/assault that the Dems wish to have.

 

1) Pretty certain all of the conservatives I know don't condone sexual harassment/assault. Don't mistake politicians for speaking for the majority of people.

 

2) I'd really like to see what the split was in Congress for the 10-15 million in harassment/assault settlements that have been paid out. My guess is it's a pretty good mix of Dems/Republicans.

 

3) It's sad that an issue like sexual harassment/assault has to be politicized. But, 2017.

Edited November 16, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[bigruss]

1) Pretty certain all of the conservatives I know don't condone sexual harassment/assault. Don't mistake politicians for speaking for the majority of people.

 

2) I'd really like to see what the split was in Congress for the 10-15 million in harassment/assault settlements that have been paid out. My guess is it's a pretty good mix of Dems/Republicans.

 

3) It's sad that an issue like sexual harassment/assault has to be politicized. But, 2017.

If a politician or political commentor that is aligned with a party defends/excuses sexual harrassment because of party affiliation, damn right I will politicize that.

[Jenksismyhero]

If a politician or political commentor that is aligned with a party defends/excuses sexual harrassment because of party affiliation, damn right I will politicize that.

 

No that's just being a good human being and criticizing terrible people saying/doing terrible things. There's no need to attach political party affiliation to it. Dems don't get to "own" that sexual harassment/assault shouldn't be tolerated.

[Quin]

So apparently Roger Stone leaked this last night.

 

What the hell?

[bigruss]

No that's just being a good human being and criticizing terrible people saying/doing terrible things. There's no need to attach political party affiliation to it. Dems don't get to "own" that sexual harassment/assault shouldn't be tolerated.

I should've said that it goes both ways, I will absolutely call out a political party if they take that stance. I'll call out the Democrats if they protect Franken for example. Politicizing does not mean taking 1 political party side.

[Jack Parkman]

People, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if allegations of this kind of behavior come out against the majority of male members of Congress. This type of behavior was all too common and somewhat socially acceptable among males for way too long. Given the age of most people in office, I predict a new member of Congress gets accused weekly, if not daily.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Jack Parkman

[Reddy]

So apparently Roger Stone leaked this last night.

 

What the hell?

Guarantee you it was orchestrated to distract people from calling their congresspeople on Tax Bill Vote Day. That's the only reason I can see that Tweedon would accept Franken's apology so damn quickly. She's a regular Hannity guest, but likely doesn't want this to be a long drawn out story for her own sake. As far as political stunts are concerned, this one was well played all around.

[Reddy]

1) Pretty certain all of the conservatives I know don't condone sexual harassment/assault. Don't mistake politicians for speaking for the majority of people.

 

2) I'd really like to see what the split was in Congress for the 10-15 million in harassment/assault settlements that have been paid out. My guess is it's a pretty good mix of Dems/Republicans.

 

3) It's sad that an issue like sexual harassment/assault has to be politicized. But, 2017.

1) I said "The Dems" as in, the Dems in congress. the Democratic Party. Not "all dems" or all people. Reading comprehension without infusion of bias is key!

 

2) Of course it's a mix. Though I'd wager it leans further R than D based on historical evidence.

 

3) I'm very confused why any issue shouldn't be politicized. If you want to fix something, it has to go through the political process. That's like, what this country's based on. Laws and stuff.

[Soxbadger]

2) Of course it's a mix. Though I'd wager it leans further R than D based on historical evidence.

 

Never wager on something you have no way of knowing. A lot of "liberals" have been caught in this mess.

 

The reason I hate politicizing it, is because its going to become about "teams" instead of looking at each case on its own merit.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Never wager on something you have no way of knowing. A lot of "liberals" have been caught in this mess.

 

The reason I hate politicizing it, is because its going to become about "teams" instead of looking at each case on its own merit.

 

Look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

They can’t talk about anything without the obligatory criticizing of Obama or the Clintons.

 

What President ever acted like that 1 year into office? Not even Nixon, vis a vis the Kennedys and LBJ.

 

Now every election should be about wiping out every single policy of your predecessor from an opposing party?

[Jenksismyhero]

1) I said "The Dems" as in, the Dems in congress. the Democratic Party. Not "all dems" or all people. Reading comprehension without infusion of bias is key!

 

But "Dems" are just as guilty of this stuff. Hence my point. "Dems" have had control over Congress for some years this decade and they could have altered the sex harassment/assault policy that they're talking about now. But they didn't. They protected their buddies just like other members of Congress. I'm not sure why you think "Dems" want/should get the moral high ground here.

 

2) Of course it's a mix. Though I'd wager it leans further R than D based on historical evidence.

 

I'm not sure why. This problem involves men asserting power over women. It's not a party-specific problem, it's a gender, age and authority position problem.

 

3) I'm very confused why any issue shouldn't be politicized. If you want to fix something, it has to go through the political process. That's like, what this country's based on. Laws and stuff.

 

As SB says, you're making this a "team" situation. You're already claiming this was all planned and executed with ulterior motives. Why aren't you saying the same thing about Moore? You don't think the timing of those accusers coming out, a month before an election, is suspect?

Edited November 16, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Reddy]

Never wager on something you have no way of knowing. A lot of "liberals" have been caught in this mess.

 

The reason I hate politicizing it, is because its going to become about "teams" instead of looking at each case on its own merit.

Go back a few pages. Already made this argument. Fewer Ds than Rs have committed these types of crimes and walked away scot-free, and more Rs than Ds have had sex scandals over the past couple decades.

 

Also there are just fewer male Democrats in office, so the odds are in my favor.