The Sexual Assault problem

[Reddy]

I actually agree with the majority of your “politics”, I just don’t like when self-absorbed, arrogant people make important issues about themselves. There was zero reason to bring up Rapp’s character in this discussion, none whatsoever. He was clearly the victim of disgusting actions by a grown man. Hell, even Spacey doesn’t deny it. I still have no idea why you felt the need to bring his character into this discussion other than to use it as outlet to brag about your cool “Hollywood” inner circle.

Or to give more context to a situation y'all are less familiar with? But sure. Paint it however you want.

[Chicago White Sox]

1) you don't actually know that. None of us do.

 

2) there was no consent, but also, nothing happened. What in the description Rapp gives constitutes sexual assault or rape? Spacey made a move, Rapp rebuffed it and left, and nothing further happened.

 

OBVIOUSLY I condemn Spacey for even MAKING the move in the first place, and he's a really skeezy dude and deserves this backlash, but I guess my question is what crime did he actually commit? Like... endangerment of a minor or something? Honestly asking. Don't know much about the laws here.

 

3) In the context of the point I was making, I brought up his character to strengthen the argument that he wasn't trying to use Spacey to get a leg up in the business. Read the whole damn post and stop extrapolating they way you want to.

Good god man...this is seriously some terrible s***.

[Reddy]

Good god man...this is seriously some terrible s***.

No, it really isn't. Nothing in it is unreasonable, or any different than what shack is saying.

[Reddy]

This whole thing where we can't even have a reasonable conversation because you're going to pitch a hissyfit about some failing of mine to be politically correct when I'm not even saying what you apparently have decided I'm saying gets really old, man.

[Chicago White Sox]

Or to give more context to a situation y'all are less familiar with? But sure. Paint it however you want.

You’re more familiar with 14 year old boys being sexually assaulted? Why is that again? Because you and your friends made a documentary about your adventures across the USA? Again, I must be completely missing the point or how you’re an expert in this area.

 

And do you actually think I’m naive enough to believe no one has ever used sex to get ahead in life? I’m sure it happens all the time. But legit children (not minors) are far less likely to engage in this type of behavior, especially ones that are already successful actors and whose attacker denies NOTHING. Again, there is literally zero reason not to believe Rapp’s story because Spacey himself doesn’t deny any of it.

 

But I’m glad people like you are out there to cast doubt when every piece of evidence suggests this is a cut and dry matter.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[iamshack]

I think I must be really de-sensitized when it comes to sex.

 

 

[Reddy]

You’re more familiar with 14 year old boys being sexually assaulted? Why is that again? Because you and your friends made a documentary about your adventures across the USA? Again, I must be completely missing the point or how you’re an expert in this area.

 

What the hell is wrong with you? Mods can we cut this off before it gets even more ridiculous? Did he just insinuate that I'm a pedophile? And why does he insist on insulting the career I spent 10 years (and my entire adolescent life) building? This is really f***ing ridiculous.

 

Why doesn't anyone else have to give their resume and receipts? Do you WANT my resume? Like what the f*** are you asking of me? Why on earth would I have talked about every job I've had and every person I know in the entertainment industry prior to now?

Edited November 2, 2017 by Reddy

[Reddy]

And not one person here is denying Rapp's story. YOU, cws, are making that up to fit your personal vendetta of a narrative.

[Chicago White Sox]

What the hell is wrong with you? Mods can we cut this off before it gets even more ridiculous? Did he just insinuate that I'm a pedophile? And why does he insist on insulting the career I spent 10 years (and my entire adolescent life) building? This is really f***ing ridiculous.

 

Why doesn't anyone else have to give their resume and receipts? Do you WANT my resume? Like what the f*** are you asking of me? Why on earth would I have talked about every job I've had and every person I know in the entertainment industry prior to now?

How the hell did I call you a pedophile? But whatever man, nice way to deflect. And all I really want to know is how you’re an expert on this subject as you implied multiple times in this thread. If you’ve been a legit actor for 10 years (no idea if that’s what your suggesting) then simply come out and say it. It would at least add some credibility to your statements instead of simply using the “let me tell you how it is” approach you’ve been using.

[Reddy]

How the hell did I call you a pedophile? But whatever man, nice way to deflect. And all I really want to know is how you’re an expert on this subject as you implied multiple times in this thread. If you’ve been a legit actor for 10 years (no idea if that’s what your suggesting) then simply come out and say it. It would at least add some credibility to your statements instead of simply using the “let me tell you how it is” approach you’ve been using.

I DID SAY IT! Hahaha you're unreal.

[Reddy]

CWS, go back to the last page and scroll up til you find this:

 

I spent over a decade in the acting business in NYC (I just quit to go back to grad school this past summer, though I still do gigs on occasion). I have many connections to a lot of big players in the business and am personal friends with many broadway stars, friends of Anthony Rapp, etc. Anthony is a far more famous stage actor than anything else, and my degrees of separation from most people in the entertainment industry is one or two at the very most.

 

Read better.

[iamshack]

You guys are both good dudes. No need to fling the s*** back and forth.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Reddy, you are coming off as accepting of Rapp getting molested/proposed/whatever happened because crazy things happen in Hollywood. Your entire angle the last two pages has been both condescending and uncomfortable to read, and I completely agree with CWS that you brought Rapps character into the discussion when it really had no place. Bottom line for me is it doesn’t matter if the 14 year old wanted it, initiated it, participated willingly. It is pedophilia on the part of Spacey. And apparently he is known for it.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think I must be really de-sensitized when it comes to sex.

I’m not saying you aren’t, but I think adults making advances on legit children (not just minors) is something we should all be sensitive about. I’m willing to lose my s*** on this particular subject. Again, not directed at you, just trying to rationalize my emotion in this thread.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Reddy]

Reddy, you are coming off as accepting of Rapp getting molested/proposed/whatever happened because crazy things happen in Hollywood. Your entire angle the last two pages has been both condescending and uncomfortable to read, and I completely agree with CWS that you brought Rapps character into the discussion when it really had no place. Bottom line for me is it doesn’t matter if the 14 year old wanted it, initiated it, participated willingly. It is pedophilia on the part of Spacey. And apparently he is known for it.

 

There is no world in which I'm accepting of it, or think it's ok. If I gave that perception then I apologize. All I'm doing is giving context from a different perspective than any of you have, and trying to shed light on why this hadn't come to light until now.

 

I've said repeatedly that I condemn it, and I agree with you - obviously - that pedophilia is never acceptable.

[iamshack]

I’m not saying you aren’t, but I think adults making advances on legit children (not just minors) is something we should all be sensitive about. I’m willing to lose my s*** on this particular subject.

Yeah, I get it. I guess I'll just say this...I've found that people have done far worse things to me as an adolescent (that don't garner near the type of outrage that this has), that shaped and impacted my life as an adult, than someone making unwanted advances towards me.

 

 

[Reddy]

And y'all. I guess this probably won't be a popular sentiment either... But the reality is that Hollywood and Broadway ARE different. Kids grow up WAY too fast. They're at parties they shouldn't be at. They're drinking and doing drugs crazy young. This isn't real life. Why do you think so many kid stars grow up to be disasters of human beings? If there was a situation where an adult and minor are in the same place and both under the influence, and a pass is made, but no harassment, no assault, no abuse and no rape is committed, and we don't hear about it until 30 years later and we're relying on the memory of a 14 year old, what's the appropriate response? (do you find your memories of the way the world "was" at 14 to be accurate?)

 

I don't know y'all. I just think we're toppling over an incredibly slippery slope where every single man who gets accused of something is guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. The reality is that MOST - the VAST majority of men - have at one point done or said SOMETHING (no matter how innocuous) that could be construed as sexual harassment. Should every single man have their careers destroyed for mistakes they made years ago?

 

Halperin, Weinstein, O'Reilly, Cosby, NPR guy, others absof***inglutely deserve every single thing they're getting. Men that systematically use their power to abuse, assault and harass women are despicable and deserve to be ruined. Women also deserve to be heard and believed FAR more often than they typically are. I am ALL for the #MeToo movement. I'm just now concerned about where it's heading.

 

Spacey has a track record of this and deserves to be called out and investigated. Key word: investigated. But it's a slippery f***ing slope when he's able to lose his career over no ACTUAL charges and no ACTUAL evidence that any of this took place beyond word-of-mouth. And Rapp's description doesn't even include any illegal activity, does it? That should worry people as well. We can't solve the problem by going the exact opposite direction and abandoning justice and the rule of law in this country (though I imagine this is a lost cause).

 

Like... literally every high-profile man in America is probably in talks with their lawyers drawing up a response for when the inevitable allegation comes out, and the veracity of those claims won't even matter one tiny bit. Does no one see that as a problem?

 

(and mods, if you disagree with this, don't ban me like last time, just delete the post. I'm not trying to cause s***, I'm just trying to have a discussion with other men that I can't have anywhere else. If I'm wrong, show me how I'm wrong, and I'd be happy to change my perspective)

[Chicago White Sox]

Yeah, I get it. I guess I'll just say this...I've found that people have done far worse things to me as an adolescent (that don't garner near the type of outrage that this has), that shaped and impacted my life as an adult, than someone making unwanted advances towards me.

Shack, you’re a father, how would you feel if an adult forced himself on your 14 year old son? We’re not talking about some guy being a little aggressive at the bar as he’s hitting on a girl. We’re talking an adult man who lured a child to his house and purposely tried to engage in sexual activities with said child. I’m sure there are things that are equally worse, but being molested or the threat of being molested isn’t something that should be taken lightly. And I’m not cool with any form of child abuse, whether sexual, physical, or emotional. I’m not going to ask for any specific examples, but more likely than not I’d demonstrate similar outrage. I’ve seen firsthand how various types of trauma can impact kids’ lives and quite frankly it sucks watching people struggle with these demons for what can be years & years.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[iamshack]

Shack, you’re a father, how would you feel if an adult forced himself on your 14 year old son? We’re not talking about some guy being a little aggressive at the bar as he’s hitting on a girl. We’re talking an adult man who lured a child to his house and purposely tried to engage in sexual activities with said child. I’m sure there are things that are equally worse, but being molested or the threat of being molested isn’t something that should be taken lightly. And I’m not cool with any form of child abuse, whether sexual, physical, or emotional. I’m not going to ask for any specific examples, but more likely than not I’d demonstrate similar outrage. I’ve seen firsthand how various types of trauma can impact kids’ lives and quite frankly it sucks watching people struggle with these demons for what can be years & years.

Obviously that isn't something any father (or mother) wants to think about. And I am not suggesting that we should turn a blind eye to situations wherein our children are threatened by adults in a sexual manner. I suppose what I am suggesting is that we should focus on all the things that impact the lives of adolescents (or children) to an equal degree that we might to situations like this.

 

I agree with Reddy that some kids are forced to grow up more quickly than others. Kids that grow up in urban environments, particularly, but also those that are involved in some sort of hypercompetitive endeavors, such as acting, sports, etc. This is indeed, a fact of real life. To be candid, I don't sympathize as much with Rapp as others here do. That doesn't make what Spacey did any more appropriate, but I think the amount of outrage expressed is energy that might be better spent on all sorts of other support mechanisms for our children, whether that be the way they are treated by their peers, their teachers, their coaches, etc. that seem to draw far less attention.

 

My own experience tells me that I was far better able to cope with a pervert making a pass at me than someone that I trusted, cared for, or believed in taking advantage of me. But those are exactly that - only my own experiences.

[LittleHurt05]

And y'all. I guess this probably won't be a popular sentiment either... But the reality is that Hollywood and Broadway ARE different. Kids grow up WAY too fast. They're at parties they shouldn't be at. They're drinking and doing drugs crazy young. This isn't real life. Why do you think so many kid stars grow up to be disasters of human beings? If there was a situation where an adult and minor are in the same place and both under the influence, and a pass is made, but no harassment, no assault, no abuse and no rape is committed, and we don't hear about it until 30 years later and we're relying on the memory of a 14 year old, what's the appropriate response? (do you find your memories of the way the world "was" at 14 to be accurate?)

 

I don't know y'all. I just think we're toppling over an incredibly slippery slope where every single man who gets accused of something is guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. The reality is that MOST - the VAST majority of men - have at one point done or said SOMETHING (no matter how innocuous) that could be construed as sexual harassment. Should every single man have their careers destroyed for mistakes they made years ago?

 

Halperin, Weinstein, O'Reilly, Cosby, NPR guy, others absof***inglutely deserve every single thing they're getting. Men that systematically use their power to abuse, assault and harass women are despicable and deserve to be ruined. Women also deserve to be heard and believed FAR more often than they typically are. I am ALL for the #MeToo movement. I'm just now concerned about where it's heading.

 

Spacey has a track record of this and deserves to be called out and investigated. Key word: investigated. But it's a slippery f***ing slope when he's able to lose his career over no ACTUAL charges and no ACTUAL evidence that any of this took place beyond word-of-mouth. And Rapp's description doesn't even include any illegal activity, does it? That should worry people as well. We can't solve the problem by going the exact opposite direction and abandoning justice and the rule of law in this country (though I imagine this is a lost cause).

 

Like... literally every high-profile man in America is probably in talks with their lawyers drawing up a response for when the inevitable allegation comes out, and the veracity of those claims won't even matter one tiny bit. Does no one see that as a problem?

 

(and mods, if you disagree with this, don't ban me like last time, just delete the post. I'm not trying to cause s***, I'm just trying to have a discussion with other men that I can't have anywhere else. If I'm wrong, show me how I'm wrong, and I'd be happy to change my perspective)

 

That first paragraph is just disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

[Reddy]

That first paragraph is just disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

Why? Explain it to me instead of just condemning it. I've seen that life first hand. Literally seen it dozens of times with my own eyes. I've been at parties (either as a guest, or working as a cater waiter in the Hamptons) where teenagers are literally given free reign to get blasted. The parents don't just not care. They enable it. One such party was with Ralph Lauren this past Summer. There were minors drinking everywhere. And they may or may not have been teenagers, but Lauren was certainly surrounded constantly by very young guys, a few of whom stayed over.

 

I'm curious why your knowledge and experience gives you the credibility to say what I said was disgusting and wrong on so many levels. Please elaborate.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Reddy

[LittleHurt05]

Why? Explain it to me instead of just condemning it. I've seen that life first hand. Literally seen it dozens of times with my own eyes. I've been at parties (either as a guest, or working as a cater waiter in the Hamptons) where teenagers are literally given free reign to get blasted. The parents don't just not care. They enable it. One such party was with Ralph Lauren this past Summer. There were minors drinking everywhere. And they may or may not have been teenagers, but Lauren was certainly surrounded constantly by very young guys, a few of whom stayed over.

 

I'm curious why your knowledge and experience gives you the credibility to say what I said was disgusting and wrong on so many levels. Please elaborate.

 

In my opinion, an adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old is wrong. In your world, because 14 year olds grow up faster in Hollywood and get drunk at adult parties, it's cool. I find that disgusting.

[Bob Sacamano]

In my opinion, an adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old is wrong. In your world, because 14 year olds grow up faster in Hollywood and get drunk at adult parties, it's cool. I find that disgusting.

 

This is the majority opinion, really. And it's right.

Edited November 2, 2017 by soxfan2014

[Chicago White Sox]

Why? Explain it to me instead of just condemning it. I've seen that life first hand. Literally seen it dozens of times with my own eyes. I've been at parties (either as a guest, or working as a cater waiter in the Hamptons) where teenagers are literally given free reign to get blasted. The parents don't just not care. They enable it. One such party was with Ralph Lauren this past Summer. There were minors drinking everywhere. And they may or may not have been teenagers, but Lauren was certainly surrounded constantly by very young guys, a few of whom stayed over.

 

I'm curious why your knowledge and experience gives you the credibility to say what I said was disgusting and wrong on so many levels. Please elaborate.

Dude, get over yourself. This has nothing to do with your knowledge or experience. You are now actually rationalizing why it would be ok for a drunken adult to make a pass at a 14 year old boy. It’s people like you, who view this type of behavior as “normal”, that allows scum like Kevin Spacey to run hog wild without any sort of accountability. Adults making sexual advances on legit children is never ok. I don’t care if both parties are drunk. I don’t care if the kid’s parents let them sleepover at the adult’s house. Nothing excuses the type of predatory behavior we saw Spacey commit and I’m actually disgusted you think otherwise.

[Dick Allen]

Spacey is a sick dude. This guy was 14, and if you google him, you will see photos of him as a 15 year old, there is no way he could be mistaken for someone of age.

 

Kids do seem to skip growing up when they get in that business, but it's no excuse. What if he couldn't say no, couldn't get away?

 

I don't know why a 14 year old would go to a party in Spacey's apartment alone. I don't know why he would even be invited. But whatever it was, it's just wrong. There are a lot more skeletons in Spacey's closet, but at least from what we know as of now, they at least were with adults. Who knows, another 14 year old might not have got away without Spacey getting what he apparently wanted.