Balta1701 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 12:54 PM) Instead we are going to wait until free agency and spend exponentially more? There are still a ton of question marks in this system and players still need to be brought in. If the Sox really are going to stay cheap, this is doomed as a half-assed rebuild. I know everyone wants to talk about the Cubs and Astros, but you can't ignore that they also put some of that money to use. The Cubs themselves spent about half a billion dollars in free agency to put themselves over the top. The Astros have also added a couple of hundred million in future obligations on to make their championship happen. Or we can just sit by and hope that our player development has come far enough that with what we have will end up being enough to be a title winning core, as there isn't really anything of value left to trade, and players that are draft next year aren't really going to be in the core until next decade anyway. Yes the Astros added a substantial chunk by trading for McCann and signing Morton, but their opening day payroll was $124 million. They added to that with Verlander, but the total they're going to spend to win the world series this year is something like $130 million. Obviously that will go up with time if they hold onto guys, but the opening day payrolls for 2 of the last 3 world series winners has been under $130 million and the White Sox have crossed that line before. Heck, they crossed that 10 years ago and salaries have been going up >5% a year since then. No one, not even me, will say that they can do this without spending somewhere. If they get a reasonable deal they should take it. But they also cannot be scared of spending in the future - it is going to have to happen. They need to spend 2018 filling as many roles as they can from within - find the couple of hidden guys out of their 10 AAAA players who can be long term players by giving them playing time. Then, figure out next offseason what we need to add to push us into the race in 2019 and spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) The Sox are also going to be operating at a huge margin next year, with no international spending to speak of, and a cap of about $10 million in the draft. It isn't that crazy to think of next year, especially as the majority of the Robert money will be accounted for. My thought all along was the Robert money was going to come from the 2018 payroll. They knew back then the payroll would be tiny and that's probably where they took the money from. But even beyond that. You don't throw $40 million away for garbage contracts just because you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) My thought all along was the Robert money was going to come from the 2018 payroll. They knew back then the payroll would be tiny and that's probably where they took the money from. But even beyond that. You don't throw $40 million away for garbage contracts just because you have it. It isnt' about the contract, it is for the player you get for the contract. It really isn't different than the Robert signing, except instead of the money going directly to the prospect, it goes to the bad contract player. But essentially you are still buying another prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) My thought all along was the Robert money was going to come from the 2018 payroll. They knew back then the payroll would be tiny and that's probably where they took the money from. But even beyond that. You don't throw $40 million away for garbage contracts just because you have it. Why would it come from the 2018 payroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 11:31 AM) -What I think the Sox will do and should do is spend big on the bullpen. I think they should put a lot of money into the bullpen. Even if it takes a 3 year deal for a good arm. Hard to trust relievers for 3 years. They'll need a few pitching arms just to eat innings. Otherwise, FAs to hopefully flip in July. They just aren't ready to assess long term needs. Edited November 2, 2017 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:21 PM) Then why trade Kahnle? They'll need a few pitching arms just to eat innings. Otherwise, FAs to hopefully flip in July. They just aren't ready to assess long term needs. Prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:18 PM) Why would it come from the 2018 payroll? It sounds like a chunk will. I remember seeing somewhere that the Sox and Robert were deferring a portion of it until next year to spread out the hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0928-story.html The interesting part about his long term health will be the structural integrity of the should without a portion of the bursa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) It sounds like a chunk will. I remember seeing somewhere that the Sox and Robert were deferring a portion of it until next year to spread out the hit. Oh yeah that would make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:27 PM) The interesting part about his long term health will be the structural integrity of the should without a portion of the bursa. Would you agree with what Hahn said in the article, specifically that there is no increased risk of reinjury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) It isnt' about the contract, it is for the player you get for the contract. It really isn't different than the Robert signing, except instead of the money going directly to the prospect, it goes to the bad contract player. But essentially you are still buying another prospect. I am guessing the Sox gave the Padres Tatis because the Padres covered $30M of salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:22 PM) Prospects. Yeah. Then get some more relievers and repeat - I can go for that. QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) I am guessing the Sox gave the Padres Tatis because the Padres covered $30M of salary. They shouldn't have had to give a good prospect to cover 30M of Shields' salary, as shaky as Shields was. Edited November 2, 2017 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 03:16 PM) Yeah. Then get some more relievers and repeat - I can go for that. They shouldn't have had to give a good prospect to cover 30M of Shields' salary, as shaky as Shields was. No one thought Tatis was a good prospect.. No matter how much we all want to hate the trade it's a guarantee 98% of us approved of that trade when it happened.. Tatis was no one to us at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 03:40 PM) No one thought Tatis was a good prospect.. No matter how much we all want to hate the trade it's a guarantee 98% of us approved of that trade when it happened.. Tatis was no one to us at the time Plus we got screwed on the medicals, which totally changes the face of that deal. The White Sox thought that 2015 James Shields was there because they had no reason not to. Now all of the sudden the guy can't even throw 90 and needs a new arm slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 03:40 PM) No one thought Tatis was a good prospect.. No matter how much we all want to hate the trade it's a guarantee 98% of us approved of that trade when it happened.. Tatis was no one to us at the time Here's the thread. IT was split, not overwhelming in either way. A substantial number of posts were people jumping on me for hating how that team was built and who was put on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credezcrew24 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/2017...redictions.html Top 50 free agents from MLBTR. Trade Avi for the best prospect(s) you can get and sign the following. Granderson is because he's my favorite player. Pineda/Brantley are flips. Cishek is potential flip or holdover. RF Curtis Granderson 1 yr 5M LF Michael Brantley 1 yr 11M SP Michael Pineda 1 yr 7M RHP Bud Norris 1 yr 4M RHP Steve Cishek 3 yr 20M C - Narvaez/Smith 1B - Abreu/Davidson/Delmonico 2B - Moncada 3B - Sanchez/Davidson/Delmonico SS - Anderson LF - Brantley/Delmonico/Engel CF - L. Garcia/Engel RF - Granderson DH - Delmonico/Davidson Last spot goes to Cordell/Tilson(who?)/Saldino SP1 Pineda SP2 Giolito SP3 Lopez SP4 Shields SP5 Fulmer/Rodon CL Cishek SU Minaya MR Bummer MR Fry MR Infante MR Norris MR rando I don't see how the logic in signing anyone that takes away from Delmonico's reps in LF even if they are flipable and Avi is gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 03:57 PM) Plus we got screwed on the medicals, which totally changes the face of that deal. The White Sox thought that 2015 James Shields was there because they had no reason not to. Now all of the sudden the guy can't even throw 90 and needs a new arm slot. My point was not to bring up Tatis ability just that he was part of the deal because the Padres paid $30M of the salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 04:19 PM) I don't see how the logic in signing anyone that takes away from Delmonico's reps in LF even if they are flipable and Avi is gone I would very much like to go into next year with a Delmonico, L. Garcia, Engel, and Cordell OF. I would like to see if Delmonico can continue hitting like he did last year, if Garcia can continue hitting like he did last year, if Engel could learn to hit, and if Cordell could stay healthy and be a decent ballplayer. If more than one of those guys flopped...or heck even if they succeeded, I would not expect them to be the only outfielders for long as Jiminez won't stay down long. If someone got hurt, then we have guys like Polo or whoever else I'm forgetting who could step in. Basically, I don't think I want to see us signing position players. We have too many guys who I want to get a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Jack Parkman absolutely hit this out of the park. Watch Shields become a Danks-like Albatross and Tatis Jr. become an uber prospect. Sox gonna Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/2017...redictions.html MLBTR predicts the Sox to sign Micheal Brantly at 2 yrs/$20M. Of the players I targeted in my plan for the Sox, they have Morrow going to the Rockies on the exact terms I predicted (3 yrs/$24M), Alonso going to the Angels for the same 2 yrs I planned, but for only $22M instead of $26M, and Kintzler also getting 2 years like I guessed, but to the Nats, and for $14M instead of $10M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Some of those predictions make little sense to me at this point. I know there's always some unforeseen signings but damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:20 AM) Ding ding ding. If we've gotta replace Machado for Donaldson, then so be it... but you and I are of the same mind. Then hopefully by 2020 we'll have Robert, Burger, and more coming up in the second wave. Really, really, really hope JR goes all out and gets his guy in Machado and doesn't settle for Donaldson, Donaldson is already aging and would suck at the end of his long term deal Really hope JR goes 10/$300-ish for Machado, likely a little less Another note: all my targets are non-Boras guys What a haul Machado, Kimbrel, Allen would be next winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) Free Agency - Sign RHSP/DH Shohei Otani to minor league contract - Sign LHRP Mike Minor 3 years $24MM - Sign RHRP Steve Cishek 2 years $14MM - Sign RHRP Tommy Hunter 2 years $10MM - Sign RF Michael Brantley 2 years $16MM Trade - Trade RF Avisail Garcia to Cardinals for C Carson Kelly Projected 2018 Opening Day Depth Chart C: Carson Kelly/Omar Narvaez 1B: Jose Abreu/Nick Delmonico/Matt Davidson 2B: Yoan Moncada/Yolmer Sanchez SS: Tim Anderson/Yolmer Sanchez 3B: Yolmer Sanchez/Matt Davidson LF: Nick Delmonico/Ryan Cordell CF: Leury Garcia/Adam Engel/Charlie Tilson RF: Michael Brantley/Ryan Cordell DH: Shohei Otani/Jose Abreu/Nick Delmonico SP1: Shohei Otani SP2: Lucas Giolito SP3: Reynaldo Lopez SP4: James Shields SP5: Carson Fulmer CL: Mike Minor SU: Steve Cishek SU: Tommy Hunter MR: Juan Minaya MR: Gregory Infante MR: Zach Putnam MR: Jace Fry How unrealistic is this? Edited November 3, 2017 by Dam8610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) Really, really, really hope JR goes all out and gets his guy in Machado and doesn't settle for Donaldson, Donaldson is already aging and would suck at the end of his long term deal Really hope JR goes 10/$300-ish for Machado, likely a little less Another note: all my targets are non-Boras guys What a haul Machado, Kimbrel, Allen would be next winter With as young as our team is...it might not hurt to have a veteran somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Would you agree with what Hahn said in the article, specifically that there is no increased risk of reinjury? The specific injury to the bursa? That's probably right. However, my concern would be the structures in the subacromial space that the bursa is there to protect such as the bicep tendon, labrum and supraspinatus tendon, in no particular order. The degree of the debridement would be the key. I have no doubt he'll come back strong. It's no the long term that is the concern. Edited November 3, 2017 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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