Looks For A Match In A Jose Abreu Trade

[greg775]

It actually does. Trading two years of Abreu for six years of two or more players who, ideally, will have more value, especially in the contention window. Having to make a large financial decision on Abreu near the beginning of the contention window is not ideal.

I can't wait to see who you guys decide who to pay in the future. A lot of you seem obsessed with having all prospects and the lowest payroll possible and if we have to lose lose lose 3-6 years as the kids develop you're all for it. You are the best fans ever for a cheap owner. When we are a WS contending team, some of you I presume realize we'll have to pay a few free agents some cold hard cash.

[hi8is]

I can't wait to see who you guys decide who to pay in the future. A lot of you seem obsessed with having all prospects and the lowest payroll possible and if we have to lose lose lose 3-6 years as the kids develop you're all for it. You are the best fans ever for a cheap owner. When we are a WS contending team, some of you I presume realize we'll have to pay a few free agents some cold hard cash.

I didn't realize that the general consensus around here is that the team needs to lose until 2021 or 2024. You also must be feeling really audacious tonight with your concluding statement there, sweetheart.

[Dam8610]

I can't wait to see who you guys decide who to pay in the future. A lot of you seem obsessed with having all prospects and the lowest payroll possible and if we have to lose lose lose 3-6 years as the kids develop you're all for it. You are the best fans ever for a cheap owner. When we are a WS contending team, some of you I presume realize we'll have to pay a few free agents some cold hard cash.

 

We're not going to decide who to pay, Hahn is. That said, paying players in their mid to late 20s has proven to be a smarter strategy recently than paying players in their 30s, which is usually the time that players hit free agency. The best way to have talent in its prime productive seasons is to develop it. That's why most teams that undertake the rebuild strategy the White Sox are do it.

[BlackSox13]

The rebuild is fake

 

JR is cheap

 

Bring back Ozzie and Danks

[soxforlife05]

We shouldn’t have to package either if they are moved. Would be open to moving either or both but the returns have to be on par with the Eaton deal. Needs to be full value no dumps. We don’t have anyone waiting in the wings to immediately take over and they hypothetically could fit into the future plans. All depends what we get offered. Both are attractive sell high candidates.

Edited November 26, 2017 by soxforlife05

[Lemon_44]

You prospect people are incredible. When we finally get all prospects then we can start trading them for other prospects. The Sox organization is so bad it's been unable to do anything in a division full of clueless organizations, small market organizations (cept for Detroit which acted big for a while) since we won it all in 05. Sickening. Yeah it makes sense to dump our best hitter who could anchor our next WS contending team. Makes a lotta sense.

Agree. I don't get the obsession to trade away the best players. I guess everybody wants play GM and it's fun to chat about, but that's it. I'm all for paying Abreu and Avi and build around those guys.

[Bob Sacamano]

I can't wait to see who you guys decide who to pay in the future. A lot of you seem obsessed with having all prospects and the lowest payroll possible and if we have to lose lose lose 3-6 years as the kids develop you're all for it. You are the best fans ever for a cheap owner. When we are a WS contending team, some of you I presume realize we'll have to pay a few free agents some cold hard cash.

 

Giving someone a 4-5 year deal at the age of 33 would not be wise.

[Chicago White Sox]

Agree. I don't get the obsession to trade away the best players. I guess everybody wants play GM and it's fun to chat about, but that's it. I'm all for paying Abreu and Avi and build around those guys.

I think the majority of people want to keep Abreu unless blown away. Unfortunately, certain posters continue to ignore the “blown away” part because it doesn’t fit their agenda. Would you trade Jose for a Eloy Jimenez like prospect? I really hope your answer is yes.

 

As for Avi, there isn’t clear evidence at this point that extending him to an expensive long-term contract is the right move. If you personally believe the 2017 version of Avi is hear to stay, then by all means argue for keeping him. But a lot of us have our doubts and would like to capitalize on his what could be his peak value (if at all possible) and use those financial resources down the road to sign a Manny Machado type talent.

[WBWSF]

You are probably right about that, and I think that would be a mistake. This team should be ready by 2019.

Trading Garcia and Abreu would seem to indicate that the team has no intentions of competing for anything the next few years. Instead we'll have lousy teams with low payrolls and mucho profits for JR and his investors. Then in another 4 years the team will start another 5 year rebuild. Always remember what Bill Veeck said, "5 year plans usually lead to a new 5 year plan".

 

[Kyyle23]

Trading Garcia and Abreu would seem to indicate that the team has no intentions of competing for anything the next few years. Instead we'll have lousy teams with low payrolls and mucho profits for JR and his investors. Then in another 4 years the team will start another 5 year rebuild. Always remember what Bill Veeck said, "5 year plans usually lead to a new 5 year plan".

 

 

Yaaaaawn

[ron883]

This isn't rocket science. Jose is an aging slugger who had a hell of a year. Trade him while he is under contract for 2 more years. The dude has value. Either we keep him and he declines, or we keep him, he performs, and he commands a BIG contract. Both lose lose situations when we aren't competing

 

Think of it this way. The money we don't spend signing abreu goes towards signing Manny Machado. Tarde Jose and Avi the hell out of here for some good prospects. Use the savings to land Mr Machado. Way lah

[Chicago White Sox]

Yaaaaawn

The best part is these delusions are based on nothing. When is the last time the Sox embarked on a rebuild? For better or worse, Reinsdorf has forced the front office to “go for it” pretty much the last 20+ years of his tenure. Nothing in his track record suggests he wants a lengthy rebuild to ensure “profits”, which is still one of the dumbest demonstrations of logic I’ve ever seen on this board. Furthermore, Jerry is a 81 years old billionaire with a minority stake in the team but also a controlling interest. His only objective at this point is to win another World Series before he dies. Generating these hypothetical “profits” doesn’t really help his end game, it would just make some partners richer and they ultimately have no say in the matter.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[bmags]

We don’t have to extend him.

 

I think people are overrating the risk in keeping him or trading him. Until I see a trade proposal rumor indicating otherwise, I expect a return near but slightly better than JD Martinez. That type of return isn’t going to change the trajectory of rebuild. Nor will the money saved.

 

His money on the books isn’t preventing anything, so the worst case is that he stays and sucks, but what we lost out on in holding him I’m not convinced will be disappointing.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

We don’t have to extend him.

 

I think people are overrating the risk in keeping him or trading him. Until I see a trade proposal rumor indicating otherwise, I expect a return near but slightly better than JD Martinez. That type of return isn’t going to change the trajectory of rebuild. Nor will the money saved.

 

His money on the books isn’t preventing anything, so the worst case is that he stays and sucks, but what we lost out on in holding him I’m not convinced will be disappointing.

Is this in regards to Abreu or Avi? Because I think we’d do significantly better than a JD Martinez type return for Jose, even if it’s not ultimately enough to justify moving him.

[bmags]

Is this in regards to Abreu or Avi? Because I think we’d do significantly better than a JD Martinez type return for Jose, even if it’s not ultimately enough to justify moving him.

 

Jose. I don’t know, I’m just not buying it. That whole long BR article and none were convincing fits other than Boston and St Louis. And either of them could go out and buy Santana, so the choice to trade for Abreu needs to represent value against straight money offered. Since Jose is likely staring at 2 yrs $20 million in arb, the prospects back would equal that amount over $20 mil. I’m not convinced that will see a strong return.

[Chicago White Sox]

Jose. I don’t know, I’m just not buying it. That whole long BR article and none were convincing fits other than Boston and St Louis. And either of them could go out and buy Santana, so the choice to trade for Abreu needs to represent value against straight money offered. Since Jose is likely staring at 2 yrs $20 million in arb, the prospects back would equal that amount over $20 mil. I’m not convinced that will see a strong return.

I don’t disagree with any of that, but the JD Martinez deal was widely panned as being surprisingly weak and that was for a rental. Jose would most definitely generate a better return given his control & track record. I mean, the Cardinals & Rockies each have multiple prospects that could be sent to us in 1 for 1 deal that would exceed what the Diamondbacks gave up IMO. But I think your point still stands and is even more reason to keep and hopefully extend Abreu.

[GreenSox]

Trading Garcia and Abreu would seem to indicate that the team has no intentions of competing for anything the next few years.

They are gone in 2 seasons - about the time the Sox should be getting good.

Maybe the Sox should trade them, get more young players, and then in 2 years when their contracts would expire, grab a couple of free agents to fill a couple of holes...at that time, the Sox will know exactly which holes need filling and will only have a few, instead of half a dozen + holes, like they do now.

[BlackSox13]

Trading Garcia and Abreu would seem to indicate that the team has no intentions of competing for anything the next few years. Instead we'll have lousy teams with low payrolls and mucho profits for JR and his investors. Then in another 4 years the team will start another 5 year rebuild. Always remember what Bill Veeck said, "5 year plans usually lead to a new 5 year plan".

They already think this now. Hahn has said they expect 2020 to be the year they start contending again.

 

Rebuilding teams and low payrolls goes hand in hand. Have to play the kids to see who sticks before you know where the holes are to plug through free agency.

 

The JR is cheap narrative no longer applies. Not after the 81 year old owner of a rebuilding team spent $52M on a 19 year old prospect. Doesn't sound very cheap to me.

 

I do agree with what Veeck said. 'Rebuilding' and 'retooling on the fly' for the last ten years has not worked.

Edited November 26, 2017 by BlackSox13

[greg775]

Trading Garcia and Abreu would seem to indicate that the team has no intentions of competing for anything the next few years. Instead we'll have lousy teams with low payrolls and mucho profits for JR and his investors. Then in another 4 years the team will start another 5 year rebuild. Always remember what Bill Veeck said, "5 year plans usually lead to a new 5 year plan".

Great post. That's why I fully expect the Sox to trade Abreu/Avi. We're in a new era where the fans don't mind dumping everybody in the name of rebuild and it's a great way to provide the owners so much money for generations to come. If you are a GM and have the OK from everybody, why the heck wouldn't you trade everybody you can? The unknown player is so much sexier than the known.

 

Think of it this way. The money we don't spend signing abreu goes towards signing Manny Machado. Tarde Jose and Avi the hell out of here for some good prospects. Use the savings to land Mr Machado. Way lah

Cmon. the Sox are not paying Machado 400 million. It's not going to happen. He's already out East and desired by all the Eastern teams with cash. We're not getting Manny Machado for 400 to 500 million bucks for gosh sakes. Should be interesting to see the takes of the trade people and the people who don't want to spend cash on the Manny situation. Hmmm one player who will be 26 (Avi is one year older and considered too old for our WS contending window by some) commanding all that money? First of all Sox won't pay that. Second of all should be interesting to see who on here is in favor of paying Manny unprecedented dollars.

[ron883]

Great post. That's why I fully expect the Sox to trade Abreu/Avi. We're in a new era where the fans don't mind dumping everybody in the name of rebuild and it's a great way to provide the owners so much money for generations to come. If you are a GM and have the OK from everybody, why the heck wouldn't you trade everybody you can? The unknown player is so much sexier than the known.

 

 

Cmon. the Sox are not paying Machado 400 million. It's not going to happen. He's already out East and desired by all the Eastern teams with cash. We're not getting Manny Machado for 400 to 500 million bucks for gosh sakes. Should be interesting to see the takes of the trade people and the people who don't want to spend cash on the Manny situation. Hmmm one player who will be 26 (Avi is one year older and considered too old for our WS contending window by some) commanding all that money? First of all Sox won't pay that. Second of all should be interesting to see who on here is in favor of paying Manny unprecedented dollars.

Machado isn't getting 500mil. That is absurd. 400 mil is even a bit high. He didn't exactly light it up last season. I predict something like 10 year 35 mil. Would you rather have avi + abreu or Machado+ more touted prospects? I know what makes sense. The sox will have NO payroll. I don't see why it's hard to imagine the sox making a play for Machado. It makes almost too much sense. What's the different between signing 2-4 free agents vs signing machado? Obviously the length will be different, but they will have LOTS of payroll freed up. I don't know what you have against Jerry or if you are stereotyping, but he will spend if he sees it as a wide investment.

[greg775]

Machado isn't getting 500mil. That is absurd. 400 mil is even a bit high. He didn't exactly light it up last season. I predict something like 10 year 35 mil. Would you rather have avi + abreu or Machado+ more touted prospects? I know what makes sense. The sox will have NO payroll. I don't see why it's hard to imagine the sox making a play for Machado. It makes almost too much sense. What's the different between signing 2-4 free agents vs signing machado? Obviously the length will be different, but they will have LOTS of payroll freed up. I don't know what you have against Jerry or if you are stereotyping, but he will spend if he sees it as a wide investment.

If Machado "didn't exactly light it up" why would you want to pay him that kind of money? I'll tell you why? Cause he's not a White Sox. You don't see him fail like you do Abreu and Avi on occasion. All I know is Abreu just had 3-4 of the most consistent seasons in Sox history and should be on this team. Why is baseball so different? Let's say you have an NFL quarterback or RB who is way way above average and your starter for 3-4 years. Do you want to get rid of him? Hell no. Why is baseball so different for a player of Abreu's caliber? Abreu has been great. He should stay on the team. Case closed.

Edited November 26, 2017 by greg775

[Dam8610]

If Machado "didn't exactly light it up" why would you want to pay him that kind of money? I'll tell you why? Cause he's not a White Sox. You don't see him fail like you do Abreu and Avi on occasion. All I know is Abreu just had 3-4 of the most consistent seasons in Sox history and should be on this team. Why is baseball so different? Let's say you have an NFL quarterback or RB who is way way above average and your starter for 3-4 years. Do you want to get rid of him? Hell no. Why is baseball so different for a player of Abreu's caliber? Abreu has been great. He should stay on the team. Case closed.

 

The lack of a salary cap giving teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Cubs a huge advantage that magnifies the importance of every financial decision of teams that can't afford to spend like them. There's less risk paying Machado through his mid 30s than there is paying Abreu through his late 30s. Thus, if you can turn Abreu into other assets that will help more in the projected contention window, it makes sense to do it provided that the value is right. No one is suggesting trading Abreu for a J.D. Martinez type of package, but if you can get something like Ryan McMahon (who was in AAA and looked like he might be ML ready last year) and David Dahl (who has 5 years of control, some demonstrated MLB success, and a demonstrated ability to play CF), it makes sense to take the chance that you can get two good players who can help you in your contention window instead of losing or overpaying Abreu at the beginning of the contention window.

[soxforlife05]

They already think this now. Hahn has said they expect 2020 to be the year they start contending again.

 

Rebuilding teams and low payrolls goes hand in hand. Have to play the kids to see who sticks before you know where the holes are to plug through free agency.

 

Good point this is what I was saying in the Avi thread as well. This way we don’t cripple the rebuild before it gets off the ground with a big mistake.

[WBWSF]

I don't know when Hahn said the team wouldn't be contending until 2020. But if he actually said that and meant that I just want it to be known that statement actually depresses me. That just confirms my thoughts that this team is going to be crummy for the next few seasons. And it will be a team with a very low payroll. Always remember, low payroll = more moola for JR and his investors.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know when Hahn said the team wouldn't be contending until 2020. But if he actually said that and meant that I just want it to be known that statement actually depresses me. That just confirms my thoughts that this team is going to be crummy for the next few seasons. And it will be a team with a very low payroll. Always remember, low payroll = more moola for JR and his investors.

 

Did you not know the Sox are rebuilding?