Abreu trade "unlikely"

[chitownsportsfan]

So why are you so insistent on the strategy of "Compete and win as much as you can" that we used from 2006-2016?

 

No kidding. They've earned some patience by acing the first 18 months of the rebuild. There's no grade other than "A" that you could give last year. Hell, maybe give it an A- because they only managed to acquire the 4rd pick.

 

Yea the coursework gets exponentially harder after 2018 (gotta actually start winning not acquiring prospects) but there's almost nothing to critique them on so far and we went over this in the season in review thread and rate the rebuild.

[Balta1701]

No kidding. They've earned some patience by acing the first 18 months of the rebuild. There's no grade other than "A" that you could give last year. Hell, maybe give it an A- because they only managed to acquire the 4rd pick.

 

Yea the coursework gets exponentially harder after 2018 (gotta actually start winning not acquiring prospects) but there's almost nothing to critique them on so far and we went over this in the season in review thread and rate the rebuild.

If Rutherford isn't as good next year as I'm hoping then I can see the A-/B+ range because that was a supremely valuable asset and they went after their guy, so their scouting on their guy better be right. So far it's concerning.

[Balta1701]

As we know, they aren't going to hit on every acquisition. Those misses can also be offset by a move like Q for Eloy, if he all develops like we hope.

 

Not giving the Front Office a pass in anyway, I've been pretty hard on them myself in the past. But just saying...

They're not going to hit on every acquisition, but people are making a convincing case that the guy was already underperforming in the minors when we got him, so they did make a strong bet that "we know more about this guy than other teams". I'm not sure I'd say they overpaid, because his ranking was good, but his performance wasn't supporting where he was ranked at the time. We shall see.

[ron883]

At the 2017 trade deadline, Abreu was hitting .295/.351/.521/.871 with 19 home runs.

 

But go on, keep embarrassing yourself.

.871 with poor defense at 1st base. Good, but not great. Let's take a look at his 1st half stats from the two previous years.

 

2015: .296/.343/.492/.835

 

2016: .272/.326/.430/.756

 

Not too bad in 2015. But still, from a 1B with poor defense, not too impressive. Look at 2016. BAD. The dude stunk up the 1st half of the season. He is a notoriously slow starter. I think waiting until midseason has the potential to tank his value. You never know if father time catches up to him soon. Maximize his value and trade him THIS offseason.

 

I'll be sad to see him go, but the sox have a chance to cash in on a slugger who may or may not be part of our contending teams. Remember, the sox can always resign him if he is still effective two years from now. Hell, he will probably get offered a job by the sox when he retires.

[GenericUserName]

I don't disagree with any of that. And at the time, I actually like that the front office went out and "got their guy"

 

If it fails, it's really on them. They went down with the guys they believed in.

I hated the trade at the time, I hated it even more when the A's got all three of Fowler, Mateo, and Kaprielian, but the move is done and now we have to hope Rutherford just had a bad year or needs a small adjustment because we're stuck with him.

[Jose Abreu]

.871 with poor defense at 1st base. Good, but not great. Let's take a look at his 1st half stats from the two previous years.

 

2015: .296/.343/.492/.835

 

2016: .272/.326/.430/.756

 

Not too bad in 2015. But still, from a 1B with poor defense, not too impressive. Look at 2016. BAD. The dude stunk up the 1st half of the season. He is a notoriously slow starter. I think waiting until midseason has the potential to tank his value. You never know if father time catches up to him soon. Maximize his value and trade him THIS offseason.

 

I'll be sad to see him go, but the sox have a chance to cash in on a slugger who may or may not be part of our contending teams. Remember, the sox can always resign him if he is still effective two years from now. Hell, he will probably get offered a job by the sox when he retires.

In 2017, among qualified first basemen, Abreu ranked 10th in UZR/150 and 4th in RZR. Wouldn't call that defense "poor". I'd say, over his entire career, it's slightly below average at worst.

 

Source

[bmags]

I hated the trade at the time, I hated it even more when the A's got all three of Fowler, Mateo, and Kaprielian, but the move is done and now we have to hope Rutherford just had a bad year or needs a small adjustment because we're stuck with him.

I dont like Rutherford but I feel I hate this deal most because of the stupid fake rosenthal tweet trade that had Mateo Adams and Florial

 

[fathom]

I hated the trade at the time, I hated it even more when the A's got all three of Fowler, Mateo, and Kaprielian, but the move is done and now we have to hope Rutherford just had a bad year or needs a small adjustment because we're stuck with him.

 

I had reservations on Rutherford because a few weeks before the deal, KLaw mentioned how awful the reports were on him.

[Chicago White Sox]

I hated the trade at the time, I hated it even more when the A's got all three of Fowler, Mateo, and Kaprielian, but the move is done and now we have to hope Rutherford just had a bad year or needs a small adjustment because we're stuck with him.

Sonny Gray was a superior asset though. We should have never expected that type of return for what we gave up. Having said that, I still think we should have got a better second piece than Ian Clarkin, but apparently they are pretty high on him.

[GenericUserName]

Sonny Gray was a superior asset though. We should have never expected that type of return for what we gave up. Having said that, I still think we should have got a better second piece than Ian Clarkin, but apparently they are pretty high on him.

I wasn't saying we should have gotten all of them, just that they weren't like off the table. I would have taken any of those three over Rutherford.

And then I found this breakdown of his swing (from before the draft)

[Chicago White Sox]

I wasn't saying we should have gotten all of them, just that they weren't like off the table. I would have taken any of those three over Rutherford.

And then I found this breakdown of his swing (from before the draft)

I’d definitely take Rutherford over any of those guys. Mateo has some serious question marks and the other two are coming off pretty serious injuries. I do think Blake is overrated relative to his recent rankings, but the tools are clearly there to be a very good major leaguer. Just got to hope the Sox see something they can address which help him drive/life the ball more.

[greg775]

Dude...just...I don't know anymore.

You can't admit this board is EXTREMELY happy with anything the front office does? This is a pro front office message board.

 

So why are you so insistent on the strategy of "Compete and win as much as you can" that we used from 2006-2016?

Because we didn't execute it right. Sox have had miserable guys in Buddy Bell on the organizational level and Robin Ventura as manager. They've arguably made some of the most bonehead acquisitions ever in trying to bring in guys to win. The ONLY way to win is not trade everybody and rebuild. Some teams with cash have done just fine in adding guys to buy a pennant. I personally think our front office gets a free pass on almost everything on here.

[Chicago White Sox]

You can't admit this board is EXTREMELY happy with anything the front office does? This is a pro front office message board.

 

 

Because we didn't execute it right. Sox have had miserable guys in Buddy Bell on the organizational level and Robin Ventura as manager. They've arguably made some of the most bonehead acquisitions ever in trying to bring in guys to win. The ONLY way to win is not trade everybody and rebuild. Some teams with cash have done just fine in adding guys to buy a pennant. I personally think our front office gets a free pass on almost everything on here.

I have no idea what you’re actually suggesting here.

[Whisox05]

Although the Red Sox believe Jose Abreu would fill their need for a middle-of-the-order slugger, the White Sox want "an arm and both legs," according to a rival talent evaluator. Chicago got Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech last year for Chris Sale, and... https://t.co/CkVkipI0ij

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/936069446665457664

[Ducksnort]

Anyone else feel like this Jose Abreu trade talk is way at overrated? Maybe because of the extremely slow off-season and this was the only remotely interesting thing that anyone could latch on to?

Edited November 30, 2017 by Scoots

[hi8is]

Anyone else feel like this Jose Abreu trade talk is way at overrated? Maybe because of the extremely slow off-season and this was the only remotely interesting thing that anyone could latch on to?

Absolutely. I bet our "interest" in JBJ and the Red Sox "talking actively" with us in actuality amounted to this:

 

Hahn Calls DD... "let us know if you decide to field calls about Bradley."

 

DD: "Ok. We're interested in Abreu."

 

Hahn... "price is high... like super f***ing high."

 

DD: "figured, thanks"

 

 

[BlackSox13]

^^

[ptatc]

They're not going to hit on every acquisition, but people are making a convincing case that the guy was already underperforming in the minors when we got him, so they did make a strong bet that "we know more about this guy than other teams". I'm not sure I'd say they overpaid, because his ranking was good, but his performance wasn't supporting where he was ranked at the time. We shall see.

This is true but there is more to ranking than pure performance, the "tools." This is where Hahn, KW and the scouts need to have done their work. Underperforming doesn't mean he won't perform later.Like you said, that's why they get paid the big bucks.

[GenericUserName]

Although the Red Sox believe Jose Abreu would fill their need for a middle-of-the-order slugger, the White Sox want "an arm and both legs," according to a rival talent evaluator. Chicago got Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech last year for Chris Sale, and... https://t.co/CkVkipI0ij

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/936069446665457664

This is the perfect middle ground. We are willing to trade Abreu, but only if some team is dumb enough to way overpay for him. Maybe the Cardinals if they think some guys are blocked at the ML level and strike out on Stanton, but otherwise I bet we keep him.

[ptatc]

You can't admit this board is EXTREMELY happy with anything the front office does? This is a pro front office message board.

 

 

Because we didn't execute it right. Sox have had miserable guys in Buddy Bell on the organizational level and Robin Ventura as manager. They've arguably made some of the most bonehead acquisitions ever in trying to bring in guys to win. The ONLY way to win is not trade everybody and rebuild. Some teams with cash have done just fine in adding guys to buy a pennant. I personally think our front office gets a free pass on almost everything on here.

This is true. I've never heard a bad word about KW on this board ever.

 

NASCAR!

[greg775]

Anyone else feel like this Jose Abreu trade talk is way at overrated? Maybe because of the extremely slow off-season and this was the only remotely interesting thing that anyone could latch on to?

No. When Dick Allen heard Hahn speak and Hahn wasn't enthused about Avi or Abreu, I knew both would be gone this winter. It will happen. Dick was there. He heard it.

[Jose Abreu]

No. When Dick Allen heard Hahn speak and Hahn wasn't enthused about Avi or Abreu, I knew both would be gone this winter. It will happen. Dick was there. He heard it.

I was at one of those things too and Hahn delivered the same answer basically.

 

It's not that he wasn't "enthused" about either of them, it's just that he's not going to necessarily hold onto them if an overwhelming offer is presented.

[GGajewski18]

Although the Red Sox believe Jose Abreu would fill their need for a middle-of-the-order slugger, the White Sox want "an arm and both legs," according to a rival talent evaluator. Chicago got Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech last year for Chris Sale, and... https://t.co/CkVkipI0ij

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/936069446665457664

 

This is exactly what we should ask for.

[BlackSox13]

Bet all the houses! Jose Abreu, he gawn!

 

All Jose Abreu White Sox gear is now 99% off (while supplies last).

 

 

[Balta1701]

Because we didn't execute it right. Sox have had miserable guys in Buddy Bell on the organizational level and Robin Ventura as manager. They've arguably made some of the most bonehead acquisitions ever in trying to bring in guys to win. The ONLY way to win is not trade everybody and rebuild. Some teams with cash have done just fine in adding guys to buy a pennant. I personally think our front office gets a free pass on almost everything on here.

Name a team that has won a pennant dominantly through Free Agency. Literally the last one I've got is the 09 Yankees. That doesn't mean teams don't get some free agents, but literally everyone is using a path different from what you said. No team can make the method work that you keep saying we shoudl do. And if you would have read the post in the Avi thread only 2 or 3 posts before you talked about how "they should sign good free agents instead of bad ones", even the teams that are winning - they have free agent busts. How about your Royals, they have a pennant right? Wouldn't they prefer to no longer have Alex Gordon's contract on the books? The Cubs and that Heyward deal? If you sign 3 free agents, the odds are one of them will be a LaRoche level bust. That's how the Free Agency market works.