steveno89 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (Username @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 06:01 PM) JBJ really screams Austin Jackson to me. The swing and miss profile, plus general hot and cold nature give him some serious long-term hitting risk. Plus, if his athleticism starts to slip at all, I’m not sure he can maintain his value without hitting markedly better. I know he’s only 27, but defense-first center fielders don’t exactly age well. Of course, guys like this also sometimes become George Springer. The problem is, he’s clearly not a natural hitter if you watch him. His swing is kind of clumsy and he seriously struggles with offspeed stuff. Every Red Sox fan I know can’t stand him, as he tends to beat up on bad pitching and disappear against anyone with good stuff. JBJ is a better defensive player than Springer, but Springer is a much better offensive player. They are both the same age and Springer is coming off back to back 5.0 WAR seasons. Hypothetically if both were free agents I would bet Springer would end up getting a significantly bigger contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) Boston and the White Sox aren't really a match but I wonder if they could be in a 3 way discussion of some kind. Oakland and Boston probably don't do this but this would make sense for Sox. Boston Gets: Jose Abreu Oakland Gets: Jackie Bradley Jr. White Sox Get: OF Austin Beck, LHP Jesus Luzardo, two low level flyers Edited December 12, 2017 by Y2JImmy0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Getting low level teenagers (not quite top 100 types even) would be just awful return for Abreu. You cant trade prominent, under control all star level talent for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) Boston and the White Sox aren't really a match but I wonder if they could be in a 3 way discussion of some kind. Oakland and Boston probably don't do this but this would make sense for Sox. Boston Gets: Jose Abreu Oakland Gets: Jackie Bradley Jr. White Sox Get: OF Austin Beck, LHP Jesus Luzardo, two low level flyers Not a terrible suggestion, but I think the Sox might try to target players closer to the majors than Beck is. I'd aim for a better return. Edited December 12, 2017 by steveno89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 08:01 AM) Boston and the White Sox aren't really a match but I wonder if they could be in a 3 way discussion of some kind. Oakland and Boston probably don't do this but this would make sense for Sox. Boston Gets: Jose Abreu Oakland Gets: Jackie Bradley Jr. White Sox Get: OF Austin Beck, LHP Jesus Luzardo, two low level flyers Not a bad suggestion as Hahn and Hostetler hinted at drafting more high school guys after the past draft since most of our top guys are in A+ and over (and you still need to fill out the lower levels/trade chips down the line). Beck was linked to us from people in the know quite a bit too in the draft (and Luzardo via trade). Probably one more top 100 guy in there and I'd consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asindc Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Username @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 06:01 PM) JBJ really screams Austin Jackson to me. The swing and miss profile, plus general hot and cold nature give him some serious long-term hitting risk. Plus, if his athleticism starts to slip at all, I’m not sure he can maintain his value without hitting markedly better. I know he’s only 27, but defense-first center fielders don’t exactly age well. Of course, guys like this also sometimes become George Springer. The problem is, he’s clearly not a natural hitter if you watch him. His swing is kind of clumsy and he seriously struggles with offspeed stuff. Every Red Sox fan I know can’t stand him, as he tends to beat up on bad pitching and disappear against anyone with good stuff. This is my assessment as well. I see a lot more of Bradley than most Sox fans since I live in DC and watch Baltimore games. IMO, what you see is what you get, and that is not nearly good enough to trade our best hitter when he still has a few productive years ahead of him. Edited December 12, 2017 by asindc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 08:11 AM) Not a terrible suggestion, but I think the Sox might try to target players closer to the majors than Beck is. I'd aim for a better return. I think better than that for a 31 year old 1B owed around $38 million over next 2 seasons is unrealistic. I think Luzardo and Beck will both be prominently featured on top 100 lists this year. You have to trust your scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asindc Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 05:34 PM) He does for at least one season if not 2. Th fact is, if he bounces back to his 2016 level, you could get a ton for him in a year. The White Sox have always been quite fond of him. It is interesting Jose Contreras has been added to help Latin players assimilate. Maybe he will be more geared toward minor leaguers, or maybe they are preparing to fill the void Abreu would leave behind. It's the "if" part of your statement that would make it a risk. An unnecessary risk at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (asindc @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 08:55 AM) It's the "if" part of your statement that would make it a risk. An unnecessary risk at that. There is risk Abreu falls apart. Risk he plays well for 2 meaningless for the team, seasons, and leaves for more money. A year ago, even on May 1st, people would have loved to dump Abreu for a guy of JBJ's ilk. Now, some are questioning if even a guy like Devers is enough. I am one of Jose's biggest fans, but like the Dodgers used to say, it's better to trade a guy a year too early, than a year too late. Now is the time unless you are willing to pay him for his declining years, and not complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Abreu can also net a comp pick when/if he leaves in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) Abreu can also net a comp pick when/if he leaves in 2 years. Those aren't very high anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 09:04 AM) Those aren't very high anymore. There's factors (like his contract size, >$50 mill) but it should be after the first round. Teams just don't automatically give up their highest pick. Edited December 12, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asindc Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 10:00 AM) There is risk Abreu falls apart. Risk he plays well for 2 meaningless for the team, seasons, and leaves for more money. A year ago, even on May 1st, people would have loved to dump Abreu for a guy of JBJ's ilk. Now, some are questioning if even a guy like Devers is enough. I am one of Jose's biggest fans, but like the Dodgers used to say, it's better to trade a guy a year too early, than a year too late. Now is the time unless you are willing to pay him for his declining years, and not complain. From what I've seen of Abreu and Bradley, I'd much rather take the risk on Abreu for the next 2 years and maybe beyond. But I'm also among those who were never high on Bradley to begin with. I also have the benefit of working with a few Boston fans. They would break open champagne bottles if they got Abreu for Bradley as a headliner in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 09:09 AM) There's factors (like his contract size, >$50 mill) but it should be after the first round. Teams just don't automatically give up their highest pick. This is not true. The White Sox are a big market club. If they let Abreu walk after 2019, they will receive a pick after the 2nd round for his services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 09:25 AM) This is not true. The White Sox are a big market club. If they let Abreu walk after 2019, they will receive a pick after the 2nd round for his services. Yeah I couldn't remember the exact factors. Thanks. Still should be a point brought up in trade discussions though (especially if he goes somewhere like Colorado or St. Louis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I have a feeling the White Sox really want and are hoping to trade Jose Abreu but aren’t going to budge from their asking price https://twitter.com/barstoolWSD/status/940737491669278720 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Then they better be ready to extend him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 06:46 PM) I have a feeling the White Sox really want and are hoping to trade Jose Abreu but aren’t going to budge from their asking price https://twitter.com/barstoolWSD/status/940737491669278720 This is exactly what I said when I was mentioning the Hahn meeting I was at. Same with Avi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:04 AM) This is exactly what I said when I was mentioning the Hahn meeting I was at. Same with Avi . Dick Allen, predict whether they'll be traded or not. You saw Hahn when he said it. Wouldn't you say 90 percent yes they'll be traded? 10 percent no, until the trade deadline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:10 AM) Dick Allen, predict whether they'll be traded or not. You saw Hahn when he said it. Wouldn't you say 90 percent yes they'll be traded? 10 percent no, until the trade deadline? Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 3m3 minutes ago More The consensus on Carlos Santana's $60M deal with the Phillies: It bodes awfully well for free agent hitters. Santana is four years older than Eric Hosmer. A seven-year, $175M ask no longer seems beyond the pale. Good news for Logan Morrison and other available first basemen, too. Does this increase the chance of an Abreu deal?^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 3m3 minutes ago More The consensus on Carlos Santana's $60M deal with the Phillies: It bodes awfully well for free agent hitters. Santana is four years older than Eric Hosmer. A seven-year, $175M ask no longer seems beyond the pale. Good news for Logan Morrison and other available first basemen, too. Does this increase the chance of an Abreu deal?^ It almost has to have teams re-examine what his trade surplus value is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) It almost has to have teams re-examine what his trade surplus value is. Yes. The Sox desperately need a middle of the order bat. Hosmer is a guy whose put up 9.9 WAR in his 7 year MLB career. Most of his "success" last year was due to an abnormal BABIP. .351. His career BABIP is .316. Anyone who gives this dude 175 million is a fool. If I was Boston I'd give up Groome, Chavis, Houck and Bradley before committing to Hosmer. JD Martinez thats another story but Hosmer is going to be one of those FA contracts whose costs their gm their job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 3m3 minutes ago More The consensus on Carlos Santana's $60M deal with the Phillies: It bodes awfully well for free agent hitters. Santana is four years older than Eric Hosmer. A seven-year, $175M ask no longer seems beyond the pale. Good news for Logan Morrison and other available first basemen, too. Does this increase the chance of an Abreu deal?^ I guess I'm the only one that thought the Santana deal was pretty team friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:29 PM) I guess I'm the only one that thought the Santana deal was pretty team friendly. It's about what he was projected to get. I like the deal. He's a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 07:08 PM) It's about what he was projected to get. I like the deal. He's a good player. I thought the AAV was high term is fine but he should be getting around 50 million over 3. Phillies likely had to pay a premium. WEEI reported that the Sox had interest. They also touched base with the A's regarding Davis. They do not want to give Hosmer 150+ million lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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