Yankees shopping Clint Frazier

[ChiSoxJon]

Ellsbury has a full no trade. I don't see him waiving that to go to a lesser team.

Interested to see what happens, Yanks been trying to ditch Gardner for while

 

For now they have a really crowded OF in Judge (corner), Stanton (corner), Hicks, Gardner, Frazier, Ellsbury (not movable)

 

I think Frazier gets shopped this week for sure

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I suggested in the Stanton thread, Sanchez + Fulmer for Frazier who says no? Sanchez would be an upgrade over Torreyes and Fulmer could compete for their 5th starter spot.

Edited December 10, 2017 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[hi8is]

...Sanchez would be an upgrade over Torreyes...

You sure about that?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

You sure about that?

Yep. The only thing Torreyes does better is hit for a higher batting average. Sanchez walks more, hits for more power, and plays better defense (especially at 2b).

[Balta1701]

I suggested in the Stanton thread, Sanchez + Fulmer for Frazier who says no? Sanchez would be an upgrade over Torreyes and Fulmer could compete for their 5th starter spot.

I would totally hate to do this, I really would. I think Sanchez is a decent player and Fulmer may or may not be a decent pitcher. I'm not sure if Frazier is an injury related bust or not, but he was a top 10 prospect a year ago. There's a nonzero chance he's a star, there is a zero chance Sanchez is a star. I'd hate this but I'd sit down with every scout in my org and every trainer in my org, and if the reports were solidly positive I'm in. That's the kind of rebuilding gamble I would do if my trainers were ok with it. Frazier has an all star quality bat. It looked dynamite pre-injury last year, that was one quick swing. I'd hate myself for this gamble, but i'd take it. I hate gambling like that, but the reward is too great.

[Bob Sacamano]

Torres is gonna be in the minors what, 2 weeks?

[FT35]

You sure about that?

 

I thought the same thing till I realized he wasn’t talking about Gleyber.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I would totally hate to do this, I really would. I think Sanchez is a decent player and Fulmer may or may not be a decent pitcher. I'm not sure if Frazier is an injury related bust or not, but he was a top 10 prospect a year ago. There's a nonzero chance he's a star, there is a zero chance Sanchez is a star. I'd hate this but I'd sit down with every scout in my org and every trainer in my org, and if the reports were solidly positive I'm in. That's the kind of rebuilding gamble I would do if my trainers were ok with it. Frazier has an all star quality bat. It looked dynamite pre-injury last year, that was one quick swing. I'd hate myself for this gamble, but i'd take it. I hate gambling like that, but the reward is too great.

From the Sox perspective, doesn't seem like Sanchez really fits the "window of contention" since he's a free agent after 2021 and out of position (even though he looks solid at 3b would be nice to have some more power at the position). And with Fulmer, they'd be trading from a position of strength (at least within a couple of years). I know, can never have enough pitching but man the outfield looks thin in a few years and they definitely need to build some more depth there. Everyone is penciling in Rutherford, Jimenez, and Robert in a few years but at least one is likely to bust if not two. I'm not holding my breath that Delmonico is an option for LF either. We still don't know if his hit tool is near good enough to offset his awful defense, even if it improves out there a bit.

[Chicago White Sox]

If Garcia was moved, I'd probably consider this, but gosh I want to see Cordell first. If scouts were ok moving Swarzak for him they thought there was value there. Man, maybe they say "F*** you Cordell was your mistake fix this now", but other than that...is Frazier that much better right now?

Are you actually comparing Cordell & Frazier as prospects? I mean, I’m a big Cordell fan but Frazier is on another level.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I thought the same thing till I realized he wasn’t talking about Gleyber.

I thought Gleyber Torres was slated for 3b, not 2b. Headley is mediocre at best and getting old. I'd imagine he will be a platoon player next year.

[caulfield12]

I thought Gleyber Torres was slated for 3b, not 2b. Headley is mediocre at best and getting old. I'd imagine he will be a platoon player next year.

 

That was before Castro was traded.

 

And I think some here are getting Gleyber Torres and Ronald Torreyes confused. He’s more of a utility guy.

[Balta1701]

Are you actually comparing Cordell & Frazier as prospects? I mean, I’m a big Cordell fan but Frazier is on another level.

After they've both had injury riddled years? Yeah I'm comparing them. Is that upgrade worth 2 decent players? If Cordell, Sanchez, and Fulmer each turn out to be 2 WAR players, to balance that, Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player in 2020. That's the comparison. God I hate this sort of deal but I get it. We're trading 2 possibly decent players and giving up on a 3rd for this upgrade. This upgrade HAS to be worth it. Convince me that the injuries are nothing. Convince me that the Yankees just made a $50 million/2 year mistake. This is a rough case.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

That was before Castro was traded.

 

And I think some here are getting Gleyber Torres and Ronald Torreyes confused. He’s more of a utility guy.

So who starts at 3b? I don't think the Yankees are high on Headley since they had Todd freakin Frazier playing over him last year after the trade. And, reportedly, Headley is on the block;

 

https://nypost.com/2017/12/09/why-stanton-d...at-at-meetings/

[Chicago White Sox]

After they've both had injury riddled years? Yeah I'm comparing them. Is that upgrade worth 2 decent players? If Cordell, Sanchez, and Fulmer each turn out to be 2 WAR players, to balance that, Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player in 2020. That's the comparison. God I hate this sort of deal but I get it. We're trading 2 possibly decent players and giving up on a 3rd for this upgrade. This upgrade HAS to be worth it. Convince me that the injuries are nothing. Convince me that the Yankees just made a $50 million/2 year mistake. This is a rough case.

I’m honestly for a loss of words. If we could get Frazier for Sanchez & Fulmer the deal would already be done. Cordell has zero impact on that. And WTF is this Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player nonsense? If Frazier is a 4 WAR player it’s a tremendous trade for us. If he’s a 3 WAR player it’s a still a win. And I have no idea was this $50M/2 year mistake is all about.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I’m honestly for a loss of words. If we could get Frazier for Sanchez & Fulmer the deal would already be done. Cordell has zero impact on that. And WTF is this Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player nonsense? If Frazier is a 4 WAR player it’s a tremendous trade for us. If he’s a 3 WAR player it’s a still a win. And I have no idea was this $50M/2 year mistake is all about.

I think you are overvaluing Frazier and/or undervaluing Sanchez. Frazier certainly has value but his stock is down a fair amount from last winter. After a hot start, he didn't play well in the bigs last year (negative WAR). With Sanchez, he has proven to be one of the premier defensive infielders in baseball and plays plus plus defense at 2b, SS, and 3b. If he continues to improve offensively he's a legit 3 WAR guy over a full season. I'd still make the trade if I'm the Sox because Frazier fits into the rebuild timeframe better and I think the Sox could afford to lose Fulmer but it's close IMO.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I'll just add, I think a lot of people forget Sanchez is only 25 since he's been around the big league club since 2014. Most hitters peak in their late 20s and he made great strides last year. I understand he doesn't have the prospect hype surrounding him like Frazier, but at worst he's an above average utility infielder. At best he's an above average starter. He has a lower ceiling than a guy like Frazier but also a higher floor imo.

[BlackSox13]

So who starts at 3b? I don't think the Yankees are high on Headley since they had Todd freakin Frazier playing over him last year after the trade. And, reportedly, Headley is on the block;

 

https://nypost.com/2017/12/09/why-stanton-d...at-at-meetings/

From what I've read, the Yanks really like Andujar for 3B.

 

Headley and Gardner both make a lot of sense for the Giants.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I'll just add, I think a lot of people forget Sanchez is only 25 since he's been around the big league club since 2014. Most hitters peak in their late 20s and he made great strides last year. I understand he doesn't have the prospect hype surrounding him like Frazier, but at worst he's an above average utility infielder. At best he's an above average starter. He has a lower ceiling than a guy like Frazier but also a higher floor imo.

I don’t disagree with anything you say here, but I’d trade Sanchez & Fulmer any day of the week for Frazier. At this stage of the rebuild I’m looking for ceiling and Frazier has star potential if it all clicks.

[hi8is]

I thought the same thing till I realized he wasn’t talking about Gleyber.

Oooohhhhhhh ?

[Dam8610]

Are you actually comparing Cordell & Frazier as prospects? I mean, I’m a big Cordell fan but Frazier is on another level.

 

Frazier may be a bit younger, but in a similar amount of AAA PAs last year, Cordell put up a .855 OPS to Frazier's .817. I think prospect hype may bee driving your opinion in this case.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think you are overvaluing Frazier and/or undervaluing Sanchez. Frazier certainly has value but his stock is down a fair amount from last winter. After a hot start, he didn't play well in the bigs last year (negative WAR). With Sanchez, he has proven to be one of the premier defensive infielders in baseball and plays plus plus defense at 2b, SS, and 3b. If he continues to improve offensively he's a legit 3 WAR guy over a full season. I'd still make the trade if I'm the Sox because Frazier fits into the rebuild timeframe better and I think the Sox could afford to lose Fulmer but it's close IMO.

First off, I’m not going to overreact to a player struggling in their first major league stint. Most prospects don’t get called up and go Aaron Judge from the get go. I still believe in Frazier’s tools and think he’ll be a solid starting OF at the very minimum. If it all clicks, the kid has star potential. As for Sanchez, I really do like the kid, but I don’t think he has that much untapped offensive upside left. I think he’s close to the player he’s going to become, which is a versatile, strong defender who is a near league average hitter. That’s a 2.5ish WAR player IMO and that’s great, but if I can turn that kind of player into a very talented major league ready prospect with star potential I’m most definitely doing it. Fulmer makes a potential trade a little more difficult, but I no longer see him as a starter and would ultimately be fine including him in a deal. I just don’t see the Yankees doing this type of trade however.

[Bob Sacamano]

Being 23, they could always send him to AAA and deal Frazier mid-season when more starters could be available or have him replace Gardner in 19 in the corner outfield/DH rotation.

[oldsox]

Frazier may be a bit younger, but in a similar amount of AAA PAs last year, Cordell put up a .855 OPS to Frazier's .817. I think prospect hype may bee driving your opinion in this case.

Cordell played half a season at Colorado Springs. That will help his stats.

 

I wish I knew what Sox have or don't have in Cordell. Can he play Center? If so, he has to be an upgrade over our guy Engel. Is he better than Leury? I sure don't know.

[Chicago White Sox]

Frazier may be a bit younger, but in a similar amount of AAA PAs last year, Cordell put up a .855 OPS to Frazier's .817. I think prospect hype may bee driving your opinion in this case.

What exactly is prospect hype? The fact that Clint Frazier has been a universal top 50 prospect while Cordell has never been able to crack a top 100 list? I loved picking up Cordell for Swarzak, but that doesn’t change the fact that Frazier is hands down the superior prospect. Frazier simply has louder tools, including plus raw power & elite bat speed. He’s also demonstrated better plate discipline in the upper minors.

 

Now ignoring all that, even if we were to judge prospects based solely on one partial AAA season, you fail to acknowledge that Cordell played in the PCL and his home park was in Colorado Springs. Despite that OPS difference, Frazier still had a higher wRC+ (even without park adjustments) all while being nearly 2 1/2 years younger (which is more than just a “bit”). Maybe you can use these stats to argue Cordell is underrated, but he’s certaintly not similar caliber of prospect when you consider all relevant information.

[Chicago White Sox]

Cordell played half a season at Colorado Springs. That will help his stats.

 

I wish I knew what Sox have or don't have in Cordell. Can he play Center? If so, he has to be an upgrade over our guy Engel. Is he better than Leury? I sure don't know.

I’m hoping one of two things happen with Cordell. The ideal outcome would be he shows he can play a decent CF where his bat plays up and turns him into a solid regular. The fallback scenario is he proves capable of playing all four corner positions and becomes a quality bench piece.

 

Right now I think Luery deserves the CF job to start next season, but I’d have Cordell right behind him on the depth chart. I also think Cordell is a far more interesting prospect than Engel (or Tilson for that matter).