Yankees shopping Clint Frazier

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

What exactly is prospect hype? The fact that Clint Frazier has been a universal top 50 prospect while Cordell has never been able to crack a top 100 list? I loved picking up Cordell for Swarzak, but that doesn’t change the fact that Frazier is hands down the superior prospect. Frazier simply has louder tools, including plus raw power & elite bat speed. He’s also demonstrated better plate discipline in the upper minors.

 

Now ignoring all that, even if we were to judge prospects based solely on one partial AAA season, you fail to acknowledge that Cordell played in the PCL and his home park was in Colorado Springs. Despite that OPS difference, Frazier still had a higher wRC+ (even without park adjustments) all while being nearly 2 1/2 years younger (which is more than just a “bit”). Maybe you can use these stats to argue Cordell is underrated, but he’s certaintly not similar caliber of prospect when you consider all relevant information.

This is when a prospect maintains a high ranking despite the fact that the results have yet to support the ranking. Frazier is a near classic example of this. High first round draft pick that shows up high in prospect rankings largely because of where he was drafted. He's only had one standout season offensively in the minors and that was at a low level (A+) back in 2015. There's definite bust potential there which is why I don't think Sanchez + Fulmer is such an obvious trade for the Sox but one I'd still do. This all hypothetical anyway as I don't see the Sox as a great match. I just don't think a package of Frazier and a couple lesser prospects returns much more than a 3rd/4th starter type unless there are money concerns in which the trading team is looking to cut salary.

Edited December 10, 2017 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Chicago White Sox]

Ok, who says no:

 

Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

[Dick Allen]

i am pretty sure if you offered Hahn Frazier for Cordell straight up he would think you need rehab, and would let you know as soon as the paperwork was complete.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Dick Allen

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Ok, who says no:

 

Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

If Rodon were healthy, I think both say yes. But he's not so I'd say Yankees say no.

[Soha]

Ok, who says no:

 

Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

 

I'd say if they are both healthy, the Sox say no. But as things stand with Rodon's injury, the Yankees say no.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

In a straight up trade I'd guess Frazier nets someone like Mike Foltynewicz. That's about where I see his value right now. He wouldn't return a Teheran unless the Yankees included additional prospects.

[ChiSoxJon]

Cordell played half a season at Colorado Springs. That will help his stats.

 

I wish I knew what Sox have or don't have in Cordell. Can he play Center? If so, he has to be an upgrade over our guy Engel. Is he better than Leury? I sure don't know.

Cordell is more of a utility that can hit in my opinion, not a full time CF

[GreenSox]

Frazier has a lot of swing and miss in his game and his minor league stats don't stand out. And re prospect rankings, he's top 50, but never elite. Let's not get carried away.

Yolmer was 2 war last year and finally had a light go on offensively. His offensive ceiling is probably not terribly high, but it may also be very solid.

The major leagues are replete with players who weren't top prospects and/or turned it on a little later. This is the time for the Sox to find out what they have.

Leury (showed great improvement), Cordell, Tilson - Sox have some people to audition in CF (I hope Engel goes to AAA to work on hitting)..

Edited December 10, 2017 by GreenSox

[iamshack]

Ok, who says no:

 

Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

I wouldn’t do that.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Ok, who says no:

 

Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

 

Yankees say no in a heartbeat and then laugh in Rick Hahn's face.

[iamshack]

Yankees say no in a heartbeat and then laugh in Rick Hahn's face.

I don’t think any GMs would laugh about an offer that included Carlos Rodon.

[thehugeunit]

Clint Frazier would make a nice headliner for Chris Archer.

 

Yanks and Giants match up well for a trade of bad contracts. Yanks could use another SP ( Jeff Samardzija ) and the Giants could use upgrades in the corner OF ( Brett Gardner ) and 3B ( Chase Headley ) positions.

LOL what? Gardners contract is not a bad contract, if anything Ellsbury for Samardzija and hope Rothchild can bring some of that magic back to him.

[BlackSox13]

LOL what? Gardners contract is not a bad contract, if anything Ellsbury for Samardzija and hope Rothchild can bring some of that magic back to him.

Ellsbury has a full NTC, he isn't leaving NY. That's why I put Gardner in the mix but you're right, Gardner's contract isn't bad.

[Dominikk85]

frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all.

I agree with your general premise, but no way in hell would I trade Kopech for Frazier. Kopech is probably the best pitching prospect in baseball and our best chance at developing a cost-controlled ace. You deal him and the entire complexion of our future pitching staff changes (for the worse).

[Dominikk85]

I agree with your general premise, but no way in hell would I trade Kopech for Frazier. Kopech is probably the best pitching prospect in baseball and our best chance at developing a cost-controlled ace. You deal him and the entire complexion of our future pitching staff changes (for the worse).

 

he could be Randy Johnson but there is also a significant reliever risk with him. now the good Thing is that that "risk" could still mean the next chapman/miller/kimbrel so this is not so bad but I could see why one would trade a top30 hitting prospect for him. but of course there are also good arguements for keeping him. but I think it is closer than People here think, frazier probably would be the 3rd to 4th best sox prospect right now.

[SCCWS]

To me Clint Frazier is an overrated prospect due to the questionable hit tool. He has yet to show he can handle mlb pitching and any team would be foolish to trade quality young pitching for him.

 

Same can be said for Moncada. Having said that I would rather have Moncada than Frazier.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Same can be said for Moncada. Having said that I would rather have Moncada than Frazier.

 

Can say that about every prospect really. And ones with a small cup of coffee.

[Chicago White Sox]

he could be Randy Johnson but there is also a significant reliever risk with him. now the good Thing is that that "risk" could still mean the next chapman/miller/kimbrel so this is not so bad but I could see why one would trade a top30 hitting prospect for him. but of course there are also good arguements for keeping him. but I think it is closer than People here think, frazier probably would be the 3rd to 4th best sox prospect right now.

I get the risks, but how do you expect to develop a legit #1 starter without Kopech? Maybe Hansen can get there, but the key to building a quality pitching staff from top to bottom is having lots of talented arms throughout the system. I think people are starting to get carried away with this TINSTAAPP crap when they completely ignore roster contruction and are afraid to hold onto one of the best pitching prospects in the game. Unlike the Cubs, we can’t go out and sign a Jon Lester to anchor our rotation, which makes developing on our TOR starters even more critical.

[southsider2k5]

I don't see a realistic match between the teams, but I would be interested in Frazier for sure. Just because a guy doesn't show out in his first ML exposure doesn't mean he has failed completely. Hell that kind of thinking probably got us Yoan and Lucas.

[Dominikk85]

I get the risks, but how do you expect to develop a legit #1 starter without Kopech? Maybe Hansen can get there, but the key to building a quality pitching staff from top to bottom is having lots of talented arms throughout the system. I think people are starting to get carried away with this TINSTAAPP crap when they completely ignore roster contruction and are afraid to hold onto one of the best pitching prospects in the game. Unlike the Cubs, we can’t go out and sign a Jon Lester to anchor our rotation, which makes developing on our TOR starters even more critical.

 

the TINSTAAPP Thing is not totally wrong. pitching prospects are more risky (mostly due to injuries though) and the writers now tend to give the pitchers a slight bump down (also in the Surplus value lists) but going all in on hitting isn't really working anymore. it worked for the cubs because as you said they could buy pitching and also got a Little lucky with Hendricks and arrieta but a lot of Teams have preferred hitting prospects in the last years which inflated the Price of pitching and dropped the value of hitters (especially the classic high on base Corner slugger). there is more Attrition with pitchers but as an acquiring Team you have to pay that Price in trades. even the cubs paid a huge Price for chapman, Quintana and other guys. ideally you would have hitting prospects but you still eventually Need the pitching and if you have to buy it it is going to be expensive.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by GermanSock

[ptatc]

frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all.

You never trade top pitching for just hitting. Teams always need pitching. You always need to include at least a good pitching prospect in return for top pitching.

[ptatc]

the TINSTAAPP Thing is not totally wrong. pitching prospects are more risky (mostly due to injuries though) and the writers now tend to give the pitchers a slight bump down (also in the Surplus value lists) but going all in on hitting isn't really working anymore. it worked for the cubs because as you said they could buy pitching and also got a Little lucky with Hendricks and arrieta but a lot of Teams have preferred hitting prospects in the last years which inflated the Price of pitching and dropped the value of hitters (especially the classic high on base Corner slugger). there is more Attrition with pitchers but as an acquiring Team you have to pay that Price in trades. even the cubs paid a huge Price for chapman, Quintana and other guys. ideally you would have hitting prospects but you still eventually Need the pitching and if you have to buy it it is going to be expensive.

Never really has.

[steveno89]

frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all.

 

I absolutely would not trade Kopech for Frazier straight up. Although Kopech has proven nothing at the mlb level yet, neither has Frazier. Like other posters have stated, he is our best chance at developing a cost controlled TOR starter in our system. With the extreme cost of good starting pitching on the free agent market, Kopech should be close to untouchable unless we are dealing for a #1 starting pitcher.

 

Frazier's hit tool is fringy, and it's hard to ignore his 39 game mlb cup of coffee in 2017 in which he was below replacement level. I'm not buying into the hype.

[Y2Jimmy0]

he could be Randy Johnson but there is also a significant reliever risk with him. now the good Thing is that that "risk" could still mean the next chapman/miller/kimbrel so this is not so bad but I could see why one would trade a top30 hitting prospect for him. but of course there are also good arguements for keeping him. but I think it is closer than People here think, frazier probably would be the 3rd to 4th best sox prospect right now.

 

 

I don't really there is significant reliever risk with Kopech anymore. He's the best pitching prospect in baseball. He dominated AA last year and should be in the big leagues shortly. His floor is high leverage power reliever sure but I don't think the risk is significant anymore. He's a freaking ace.