2007 Miggy Chase?

[ChiSoxJon]

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/263...inter-meetings/

 

Am I the only one who has absolutely zero recollection of this?

 

Could you imagine how this changes ChiSox history?

 

Also, why did KW refuse taking on the Willis contract? It wasn't much at all and DET seemed to handle it well

Danks, Fields, and Gio for Miggy and Willis? (Likely mans NO SWISHER(!!!!!!!!!!!)

PLUS, the Hunter pursuit?

Note this also likely doesn't cancel out the Quentin-Carter swap or Garland-Cabrera swap

 

[caulfield12]

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/263...inter-meetings/

 

Am I the only one who has absolutely zero recollection of this?

 

Could you imagine how this changes ChiSox history?

 

Also, why did KW refuse taking on the Willis contract? It wasn't much at all and DET seemed to handle it well

Danks, Fields, and Gio for Miggy and Willis? (Likely mans NO SWISHER(!!!!!!!!!!!)

PLUS, the Hunter pursuit?

Note this also likely doesn't cancel out the Quentin-Carter swap or Garland-Cabrera swap

 

 

Miller and Maybin were both huge prospects at that time, and the unwillingness to take on Willis money (they already had a lot of money sunk into the fading starting rotation) was also a pivotal factor. Detroit was willing to absorb the remaining salary, and they sent four other players. Not sure how the $29.5 million extension Dombrowski signed Willis to two weeks later factored in, but the Sox were apparently not interested in that particular commitment.

 

Also pretty sure that particular package of all 3 players was never offered by the Sox. Looking back online, Gavin Floyd’s name was also involved.

Edited December 10, 2017 by caulfield12

[bmags]

It was a pretty exciting time on the board. For a few hours, we thought we had him.

 

Looking back, Sox package actually ended up pretty competitive knowing outcomes now and factoring in how long it took Miller to turn into his role.

[Sockin]

Yeah I remember this. I was in college and was incessantly looking at Twitter in class thinking we were about to get him and then saw the tweet about the Tigers getting him. I was so depressed.

[ChiSoxJon]

Yeah I remember this. I was in college and was incessantly looking at Twitter in class thinking we were about to get him and then saw the tweet about the Tigers getting him. I was so depressed.

Year or two before Twitter became popular hahaha, ahead of your time

[Jose Abreu]

Wasn't it Ozzie who messed this up for us?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Wasn't it Ozzie who messed this up for us?

 

I thought it had leaked early which is what allowed the Tigers to get involved. Don't remember Ozzie being involved though.

[LittleHurt05]

Maybin and Miller were such hot shot prospects and it took them about 8 more years to become productive major leaguers and neither in the role they were projected. These cases always make me a little nervous about the rebuild.

[caulfield12]

Maybin and Miller were such hot shot prospects and it took them about 8 more years to become productive major leaguers and neither in the role they were projected. These cases always make me a little nervous about the rebuild.

 

Unless the Cubs/Astros are running the rebuilds...or you have the Dodgers/Red Sox/Yankees' ability to invest in the farm system, international youngsters and outbid pretty much everyone on the FA market when you choose to dip your toes into the water. IMO, the real test will be how long the Indians and Astros can keep their cores together. KC, it only lasted two years, but they made two World Series and almost won both. The Cubs have made 3 consecutive NL Championship Series, and might still have 3-4 more in them.

 

At any rate, it's an extremely interesting time in baseball. Taking the "middle route" like the Mariners have been on (and the White Sox attempted for a decade) just doesn't work anymore because the margin of error is razor thin. We shall see if the White Sox/Padres approach can work this time around. It's also fascinating because the Cardinals' Way (despite doing everything the "right" way) has its limits (couldn't attract Heyward, David Price, Luis Robert, now Stanton).

[ChiSoxJon]

Maybin and Miller were such hot shot prospects and it took them about 8 more years to become productive major leaguers and neither in the role they were projected. These cases always make me a little nervous about the rebuild.

Agreed, although I think times have changed and improved when it comes to scouting and projecting accurately

[Balta1701]

Agreed, although I think times have changed and improved when it comes to scouting and projecting accurately

People keep saying this based on their gut feelings but the last time I did a round of this, it seemed like the same number of busts were showing up in the top 100 most years.

[Dominikk85]

Unless the Cubs/Astros are running the rebuilds...or you have the Dodgers/Red Sox/Yankees' ability to invest in the farm system, international youngsters and outbid pretty much everyone on the FA market when you choose to dip your toes into the water. IMO, the real test will be how long the Indians and Astros can keep their cores together. KC, it only lasted two years, but they made two World Series and almost won both. The Cubs have made 3 consecutive NL Championship Series, and might still have 3-4 more in them.

 

At any rate, it's an extremely interesting time in baseball. Taking the "middle route" like the Mariners have been on (and the White Sox attempted for a decade) just doesn't work anymore because the margin of error is razor thin. We shall see if the White Sox/Padres approach can work this time around. It's also fascinating because the Cardinals' Way (despite doing everything the "right" way) has its limits (couldn't attract Heyward, David Price, Luis Robert, now Stanton).

 

most Windows for non big market Teams are open like 3-4 years. technically you have 6 years of control and often 6.5 when you manage Service time smartly but usually not everyone arrives or Peaks at the same time plus many Teams have to trade starts with 1 to 1.5 years left to get back some value and Keep the Thing going. to Keep a 5+ year window you either Need to make some clever extensions (like the sox did with sale), have some luck with the farm and produce good Players despite low draft picks and Talent traded to stuff holes or you have a huge payroll to extend guys.

 

 

extensions like sale will be harder to get by though- at least for the top guys (guys like anderson will continue to sign them and not take their Chance) as the Players and agents have realized how bad those are for the Players. there is of course the injury risk and getting nothing but stars also have other means to make Money (advertisements...).

[southsider2k5]

Wasn't it Ozzie who messed this up for us?

 

That's how I remember it.

[ptatc]

People keep saying this based on their gut feelings but the last time I did a round of this, it seemed like the same number of busts were showing up in the top 100 most years.

Yes. Baseball will always be the toughest sport to draft. There are just too many variables because the game is actually different and the young age of the draftees.

[ptatc]

That's how I remember it.

The problem was that it was leaked early and the Marlin got ticked so Detroit had the chance to up the offer. The rumors were that Ozzie leaked it because of his close relationship with Cabrera but no one knew for sure.

 

That's what I remember, however I am getting old and it could be an imaginary scenario.

[ptatc]

most Windows for non big market Teams are open like 3-4 years. technically you have 6 years of control and often 6.5 when you manage Service time smartly but usually not everyone arrives or Peaks at the same time plus many Teams have to trade starts with 1 to 1.5 years left to get back some value and Keep the Thing going. to Keep a 5+ year window you either Need to make some clever extensions (like the sox did with sale), have some luck with the farm and produce good Players despite low draft picks and Talent traded to stuff holes or you have a huge payroll to extend guys.

 

 

extensions like sale will be harder to get by though- at least for the top guys (guys like anderson will continue to sign them and not take their Chance) as the Players and agents have realized how bad those are for the Players. there is of course the injury risk and getting nothing but stars also have other means to make Money (advertisements...).

Not the least of which is the fact that the sox traded the 3 players who gave them the "hometown" discount. What player will want to give a discount when all it really did was make them a more valuable chip for trading. By signing the deal they actually make themselves more likely to be traded. That is the opposite of signing a deal to stay with the current team.

[bmags]

I disagree with both of you. The idea that it had no value to the player is questionable.

 

Knowing what we know now, they should have not signed and it was a discount. Knowing what we knew then:

 

- Sale was dominant but still very questionable on his durability. He got an immediate raise and guarantee of a certain amount in majors.

- Eaton also was injury prone. And after one good year they gave him immediate raise and discounted FA years

- Quintana, a pitcher out of nowhere to have a really good two years with no stuff. Same as above.

 

For the players and clubs, they get certainty over the next 6 years or so, with the exchange of some risk. Not every player will want that, but these will still happen.

[ptatc]

I disagree with both of you. The idea that it had no value to the player is questionable.

 

Knowing what we know now, they should have not signed and it was a discount. Knowing what we knew then:

 

- Sale was dominant but still very questionable on his durability. He got an immediate raise and guarantee of a certain amount in majors.

- Eaton also was injury prone. And after one good year they gave him immediate raise and discounted FA years

- Quintana, a pitcher out of nowhere to have a really good two years with no stuff. Same as above.

 

For the players and clubs, they get certainty over the next 6 years or so, with the exchange of some risk. Not every player will want that, but these will still happen.

There will always be a few players who will sign them for the reasons you stated. However, I think with the current climate in MLB there will be fewer.

[steveno89]

I disagree with both of you. The idea that it had no value to the player is questionable.

 

Knowing what we know now, they should have not signed and it was a discount. Knowing what we knew then:

 

- Sale was dominant but still very questionable on his durability. He got an immediate raise and guarantee of a certain amount in majors.

- Eaton also was injury prone. And after one good year they gave him immediate raise and discounted FA years

- Quintana, a pitcher out of nowhere to have a really good two years with no stuff. Same as above.

 

For the players and clubs, they get certainty over the next 6 years or so, with the exchange of some risk. Not every player will want that, but these will still happen.

 

We signed these players before they had the established track record that could help them get a much larger contract. These players decided it was in their best interests to guarantee their financial futures vs. rolling the dice and coming up empty.

 

For a young pitcher the risk of injury is significant and there is no guaranty you make it to free agency. Taking the $30-40 million still ensures that you will be financially secure for the rest of your life, don't discount that.

[ptatc]

We signed these players before they had the established track record that could help them get a much larger contract. These players decided it was in their best interests to guarantee their financial futures vs. rolling the dice and coming up empty.

 

For a young pitcher the risk of injury is significant and there is no guaranty you make it to free agency. Taking the $30-40 million still ensures that you will be financially secure for the rest of your life, don't discount that.

True. But most pitchers will still wait it out at get the bigger payout during arb and earlier FA. Some will do it but I don't think it will be as many in this current climate of teams being more receptive to full rebuilds. With the full rebuilds these players are so marketable to to get prospects that they are almost insuring that they will be traded.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

True. But most pitchers will still wait it out at get the bigger payout during arb and earlier FA. Some will do it but I don't think it will be as many in this current climate of teams being more receptive to full rebuilds. With the full rebuilds these players are so marketable to to get prospects that they are almost insuring that they will be traded.

 

And if they don't sign the extension, they are almost certain to be traded because their current team won't want to lose them for nothing come free agency. It completely works both ways.

[knightni]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61787

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62146

[ptatc]

And if they don't sign the extension, they are almost certain to be traded because their current team won't want to lose them for nothing come free agency. It completely works both ways.

Agreed. I just think in the current climate it's going to start leaning the other way.