jenksycat Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:43 AM) I just think the money might get to staggering amounts that the Sox will not feel comfortable going to. Mlbtraderumors guessed during a weekly chat Machado's deal ends up being $350-400 million over 10+ years on the open market. Is that something we really want to risk? We could theoretically sign 2-3 still very high quality players for that same money. I think it all comes down to how the young guys play this year which is why I think it's stupid to give anything of value up for Machado right now. Moncada/Timmy/Gio/Lopez improve + Avi/Abreu repeat + Rodon exists + Kopech/Eloy look like stars? 300m easier to swallow. A couple of those groupings don't pan out, you may rethink things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) Eventually, the Sox need to be one of those teams. And I would hope it would be on a player that is a 26 year old free agent than one that is at least 30 likes the M's did with Cano. Robinson Cano has actually outplayed his contract so far with the Mariners. He's been worth more than what he's being paid. That could turn around in the next few seasons, but so far that's not the issue. The issue was that the team signing him wasn't competitive with him, and convinced themselves they could be incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) Robinson Cano has actually outplayed his contract so far with the Mariners. He's been worth more than what he's being paid. That could turn around in the next few seasons, but so far that's not the issue. The issue was that the team signing him wasn't competitive with him, and convinced themselves they could be incorrectly. I was just referring to if we're going to be a team that spends that kind of money on a player, I'd gladly spend it on someone who won't be up 30s/40 when it's at the end. I just used Cano as an example. Pujols is another one. Edited December 15, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) I was just referring to if we're going to be a team that spends that kind of money on a player, I'd gladly spend it on someone who won't be up 30s/40 when it's at the end. I just used Cano as an example. Pujols is another one. I'm much more ok with that example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) If we think "culture" might matter, then how do we know ours is the culture he might like? I think money will matter and pay him the most and he'll come here, but that means I think culture doesn't matter. For those who think it does...they have to prove that he'll be 110% happy on a losing, kid-loaded team where occasionally the starter gives up 9 runs because he's a rookie or the bullpen rookies blow 6 games in a row. If you believe "The culture thing" will matter, that's the downside risk. People think our culture will somehow be a big selling point, but there's just as much reason to worry. Just pay the guy. People agree with you. The point is we want to pay him top dollar AND have him here getting acclimated to the city and team, that chemistry is important. I don't think anyone is saying ask for a discount because he would have been here for a year. We simply want an advantage when the money is equal to other offers or a little more. If we wait to FA, he will still see a losing team anyway and without that experience here may not even give us a real look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:32 PM) People agree with you. The point is we want to pay him top dollar AND have him here getting acclimated to the city and team, that chemistry is important. I don't think anyone is saying ask for a discount because he would have been here for a year. We simply want an advantage when the money is equal to other offers or a little more. If we wait to FA, he will still see a losing team anyway and without that experience here may not even give us a real look. If Manny Machado can't see that this team is going to be a monster in 2020 then I look forward to beating the tar out of whatever team he plays for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) I'm much more ok with that example. For sure. But Cano also might be a relevant example in another 3-4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/masnRoch/status/...703697763110912 Makes me think teams are offering MLB players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) https://mobile.twitter.com/masnRoch/status/...703697763110912 Makes me think teams are offering MLB players Avi and Anderson. Get it done Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) Robinson Cano has actually outplayed his contract so far with the Mariners. He's been worth more than what he's being paid. That could turn around in the next few seasons, but so far that's not the issue. The issue was that the team signing him wasn't competitive with him, and convinced themselves they could be incorrectly. And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:03 PM) Avi and Anderson. Get it done Hahn. No go on Anderson. Avi I have no issues at all including. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there. What were the market dynamics at that time? Who else was involved in the bidding? How much extra did the Mariners have to offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:08 PM) What were the market dynamics at that time? Who else was involved in the bidding? How much extra did the Mariners have to offer? Found an article that the Yankees highest offer was 7/8 years at $175 mill and he signed for 10 years $240 mill. https://nypost.com/2013/12/12/robinson-cano...-seattle-intro/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 07:03 PM) Avi and Anderson. Get it done Hahn. For one year of Manny, that would be awful. Don't forget Orioles want pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:08 PM) What were the market dynamics at that time? Who else was involved in the bidding? How much extra did the Mariners have to offer? Yankees, Dodgers, same as the teams you worry about. Seattle gave him the best contract. That is what the White Sox will have to do with Machado, whether he plays the 2018 season for them or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) No go on Anderson. Avi I have no issues at all including. Avi, Stephens and Puckett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:01 PM) https://mobile.twitter.com/masnRoch/status/...703697763110912 Makes me think teams are offering MLB players Avi + Adams + Puckett Yes/No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) Avi + Adams + Puckett Yes/No? Ya, that's something I do in a heart beat. Trading TA at this point is a bad idea especially for one year of Manny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) Avi + Adams + Puckett Yes/No? f*** yea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) Yankees, Dodgers, same as the teams you worry about. Seattle gave him the best contract. That is what the White Sox will have to do with Machado, whether he plays the 2018 season for them or not. So just got to outbid the Yankees & Dodgers, two teams with unlimited amounts of money, by $65M or so! Seems like a flawless strategy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:25 PM) So just got to outbid the Yankees & Dodgers, two teams with unlimited amounts of money, by $65M or so! Seems like a flawless strategy! The flawed strategy is trading away assets for his services for a meaningless season thinking that will spur him to sign with the team. No one on this board would love to see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform more than me. But in 2019. Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:25 PM) So just got to outbid the Yankees & Dodgers, two teams with unlimited amounts of money, by $65M or so! Seems like a flawless strategy! It's not as unlikely as you make it seem, given the luxury cap, and how far under it the Sox are, and how those 2 teams are already skirting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:30 PM) The flawed strategy is trading away assets for his services for a meaningless season thinking that will spur him to sign with the team. No one on this board would love to see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform more than me. But in 2019. It’s flawed but I can understand the reasoning. Pitch him on the organization so he knows firsthand and not rely on others telling him about here. Plus Castillo may help also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) It's not as unlikely as you make it seem, given the luxury cap, and how far under it the Sox are, and how those 2 teams are already skirting it. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) Avi + Adams + Puckett Yes/No? Yes. But is Adams close enough to the bigs for Baltimore's taste? I wouldn't have a problem with substituting Fulmer for Adams. Weren't they rumored to be looking for two starting pitchers that were close to mlb ready? Just offer them Fulmer/Covey and we can all move on with our lives. Edited December 15, 2017 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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