White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[steveno89]

I agree, but this s*** makes me very nervous. I just hope the Sox know what they’re doing. I have no problem throwing out a moderate offer in the off-chance it sticks, but we definitely don’t need to get involved in a bidding war. Having said that, I still can’t figure out what teams would actually overpay for a year of Machado. To me, it’s the Cardinals or bust and I still don’t see them giving up a package that much bigger than what they gave up for Ozuna.

 

Cardinals do not want to part with Reyes or Flaherty after trading for Ozuna. They dealt multiple arms and are not comfortable depleting their farm depth even more. I could see them offering some outfielders, but Baltimore seems set on wanting pitching.

[bmags]

The fact that this deal window was supposedly in hours, and now is going on a week tells me that Angelos is having second thoughts. I think no deal gets done with Machado until the tax deadline.

 

Same. In my many years following white sox rumors, if there was a sudden rush of rumors we were in the lead to acquire a player, and then a week of silence, that typically means the deal ain't happening. Or if we were initially mentioned then mentioned less and less.

 

I feel much better now, I would be shocked if we were still leading this rush.

[witesoxfan]

Same. In my many years following white sox rumors, if there was a sudden rush of rumors we were in the lead to acquire a player, and then a week of silence, that typically means the deal ain't happening. Or if we were initially mentioned then mentioned less and less.

 

I feel much better now, I would be shocked if we were still leading this rush.

 

I think the Sox still have the best offer on the board but Angelos is insisting on the Sox including more, which the Sox are wisely not doing. Thus, the Orioles don't feel they're getting enough for him and no trade will be made.

[southsider2k5]

I think the Sox still have the best offer on the board but Angelos is insisting on the Sox including more, which the Sox are wisely not doing. Thus, the Orioles don't feel they're getting enough for him and no trade will be made.

 

I could see this. I bet with the PR campaign in Baltimore, Angelos is pushing his guys to get a truckload for Machado so he can sell a deal to his fan base.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

These are common for patella femoral pain syndrome (pain under the knee cap). He must have had congenital "loose" knee caps to have the surgeries on both knees.

 

He will not have further issues with them and will will have healthier knees as he gets older due to the surgeries. These surgeries correct anatomical deficiencies and are not done for "injuries" unless he had a dislocated patella which isn't listed anywhere.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/9804700...ts-knee-surgery

 

From the article for the first surgery:

 

The first-time All-Star faces four to six months of rehab after the procedure, according to MLB.com. Dodgers orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache will perform the surgery Monday.

 

Machado tore his medial patellofemoral ligament Sept. 23. He decided to have surgery after consulting with several doctors.

 

Another article about the 2nd injury:

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/knee-surgery-once-...ason/c-91045502

 

An excerpt:

 

Orioles third baseman Manny Machado will undergo season-ending surgery on his medial patellofemoral ligament (MPFL) in his right knee in the next week, a procedure that will repair the torn ligament and that is the same surgery performed on his left knee last year.

 

So both times he had a tear in the ligament. And each time he faced 4-6months of rehab.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/9804700...ts-knee-surgery

 

From the article for the first surgery:

 

The first-time All-Star faces four to six months of rehab after the procedure, according to MLB.com. Dodgers orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache will perform the surgery Monday.

 

Machado tore his medial patellofemoral ligament Sept. 23. He decided to have surgery after consulting with several doctors.

Got it. Typically, this injury happens to the anatomical anomaly making them susceptible to this type of injury. Usually patient have issues for years until this happens. Then their response is that they should have had the surgery years ago. Either way he is better off after the surgery.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Got it. Typically, this injury happens to the anatomical anomaly making them susceptible to this type of injury. Usually patient have issues for years until this happens. Then their response is that they should have had the surgery years ago. Either way he is better off after the surgery.

I edited what you responded to include the 2nd surgery. And of course after the injury, surgeries and rehabs I would hope he is "better off" but does that also mean you could say he doesn't have bad knees? I realize you have not examined him but can you say for certain that 2 surgeries for torn ligaments should classify him as having 2 healthy knees ?

Edited December 18, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[greg775]

LMAO! Could you be more of a wet blanket on this, this being one of the more exciting times in very recent White Sox memory, with the Sox going this aggressively at acquiring a premium talent like Machado? Chr*st on a cracker, already!

 

Here we have for the first time in a long time - a very long time, mind you! - our BIG MARKET ball club talking like a BIG MARKET ball club about pursuing a premium talent like this, a soon to be available asset on the open market, AND giving fairly strong indications that they as a BIG MARKET club will have the ability to meet the market demands and sign the talent long term. When was the last time a White Sox fan was able to get excited about this kind of free agent prospect signing? Yet here you are reigning down with your typical Debbie Downer, “Why, the Sox could never, ever...do this or...do that...” nonsense. As if it were a fool’s errand to ever believe the team could make such an acquisition like this come true.

 

Why, then, should we believe your line of thinking on the unlikelihood of the Sox acquiring Machado vs. what the GM has recently and refreshingly suggested as a different approach when it comes to competing for talents such as his?

Wet blanket? Machado is available one season. You trade 3-4 of the prospects you just got for a guy who will not make a difference on a 65-win ballclub. It's ridiculous to discuss even. Now in a year when he's a free agent, if you want to toss out an offer for him, fine. But trade for him for one year when your team is crap? It makes no sense at all. Get excited in a year if the Sox really are going to try to sign him.

[Dick Allen]

I edited what you responded to include the 2nd surgery. And of course after the injury, surgeries and rehabs I would hope he is "better off" but does that also mean you could say he doesn't have bad knees? I realize you have not examined him but can you say for certain that 2 surgeries for torn ligaments should classify him as having 2 healthy knees ?

Did you read the second article you linked? He said exactly what Ptah said, , he had abnormal knees and this corrected that., and it won't be an issue moving forward.Since his 2nd surgery, he has missed less than 4 games per season. Not exactly DRose bad knees suff.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Dick Allen

[spiderman]

Are there any updates on this story or was this an overreaction to news reports that weren't fully vetted?

 

There has been a lot of discussion as to why the White Sox would trade assets for a possible 1 year rental and/or if Machado/White Sox would be willing to come to an agreement on a large deal with other big market teams likely interested next off-season....

 

Should we expect any Machado news in the near future and/or at all?

[Leonard Zelig]

Are there any updates on this story or was this an overreaction to news reports that weren't fully vetted?

 

There has been a lot of discussion as to why the White Sox would trade assets for a possible 1 year rental and/or if Machado/White Sox would be willing to come to an agreement on a large deal with other big market teams likely interested next off-season....

 

Should we expect any Machado news in the near future and/or at all?

 

Yes!

[Chicago White Sox]

The Cardinals have been oft-linked to Machado, though president of baseball operations John Mozeliak implied in an appearance on KMOX Sports radio in St. Louis this morning that he’d have a hard time making a deal for Machado (Twitter link via KMOX’s Tom Ackerman). Said Mozeliak: “If you’re trading away two to three prospects that have a combined 18 years of control… for one [year]? That doesn’t sit well with me.”

 

Pulled this off that Orioles board. Doesn’t seem to me that the Cardinals are about to go hog wild for Machado.

 

Really seems like all the rumored interest is being somewhat fabricated on the Orioles side.

[Chicago White Sox]

Are there any updates on this story or was this an overreaction to news reports that weren't fully vetted?

 

There has been a lot of discussion as to why the White Sox would trade assets for a possible 1 year rental and/or if Machado/White Sox would be willing to come to an agreement on a large deal with other big market teams likely interested next off-season....

 

Should we expect any Machado news in the near future and/or at all?

The rumor is to expect a decision by the end of this week one way or the other. And that probably makes sense, because whether they keep or sell Machado greatly impacts the rest of their offseason.

[FT35]

I agree, but this s*** makes me very nervous. I just hope the Sox know what they’re doing. I have no problem throwing out a moderate offer in the off-chance it sticks, but we definitely don’t need to get involved in a bidding war. Having said that, I still can’t figure out what teams would actually overpay for a year of Machado. To me, it’s the Cardinals or bust and I still don’t see them giving up a package that much bigger than what they gave up for Ozuna.

 

Makes sense for the Cubs actually. I actually do think I would trade 4 controlled years of Russell for 1-year of Machado. They have Baez and Happ ready to contribute where needed. It'd probably save some money on a 5th starter too, because frankly they really wouldn't need a good one! I also believe Machado would fall in love with the city and the baseball atmosphere surrounding the Cubs and would re-sign because they are a team that is set up to contend for the majority of his prime. Plus, if they found a way to dump Heyward and somehow lure Bryce (which wouldn't be all too difficult with Bryant, Rizzo and Machado there), that would be an unbelievable situation. Lots of ifs. But ifs of this magnitude rule out most teams. Typically contending teams with bright futures and deep pockets can endure risk of this caliber.

 

As for us...I think it would be great to see Machado here. But just don't think it's a good fit in a trade situation, NOW--in the event he resigns somewhere else. Could you imagine losing 2+ key pieces of our rebuild for a meaningless year of Machado (good or bad)? Do you think it's worth it to add him with the thought of flipping him at the deadline if we get the inclination he would not resign with us? That would limit the risk a little, but a deal for a mega-star player like Machado would take a while to complete. I do still think a team could part with a VERY TOP prospect at the deadline to get Manny Machado for their stretch run, with the inside track on resigning him if things went well. He's one of the very few who I think could make a difference large enough to justify that.

 

I don't know...just ramblin' some thoughts.

[Chicago White Sox]

Makes sense for the Cubs actually. I actually do think I would trade 4 controlled years of Russell for 1-year of Machado. They have Baez and Happ ready to contribute where needed. It'd probably save some money on a 5th starter too, because frankly they really wouldn't need a good one! I also believe Machado would fall in love with the city and the baseball atmosphere surrounding the Cubs and would re-sign because they are a team that is set up to contend for the majority of his prime. Plus, if they found a way to dump Heyward and somehow lure Bryce (which wouldn't be all too difficult with Bryant, Rizzo and Machado there), that would be an unbelievable situation. Lots of ifs. But ifs of this magnitude rule out most teams. Typically contending teams with bright futures and deep pockets can endure risk of this caliber.

 

As for us...I think it would be great to see Machado here. But just don't think it's a good fit in a trade situation, NOW--in the event he resigns somewhere else. Could you imagine losing 2+ key pieces of our rebuild for a meaningless year of Machado (good or bad)? Do you think it's worth it to add him with the thought of flipping him at the deadline if we get the inclination he would not resign with us? That would limit the risk a little, but a deal for a mega-star player like Machado would take a while to complete. I do still think a team could part with a VERY TOP prospect at the deadline to get Manny Machado for their stretch run, with the inside track on resigning him if things went well. He's one of the very few who I think could make a difference large enough to justify that.

 

I don't know...just ramblin' some thoughts.

There is no way in hell the Cubs are finding someone to take Heyward’s contract. And there’s no way in hell the Ricketts are signing both Machado & Harper even if those players would. The Cubs’ core is about to hit arbitration and start getting very expensive. Just not happening. And if the Cubs were to move Russell (or another major league piece) they’d be wise to use him toward a TOR starter and not another bat. They really don’t have a lot minor league chips to leverage anymore. Regardless, all this Cubs talk is nonsense and is simply intended to drive more clicks for these baseball writers.

[steveno89]

Makes sense for the Cubs actually. I actually do think I would trade 4 controlled years of Russell for 1-year of Machado. They have Baez and Happ ready to contribute where needed. It'd probably save some money on a 5th starter too, because frankly they really wouldn't need a good one! I also believe Machado would fall in love with the city and the baseball atmosphere surrounding the Cubs and would re-sign because they are a team that is set up to contend for the majority of his prime. Plus, if they found a way to dump Heyward and somehow lure Bryce (which wouldn't be all too difficult with Bryant, Rizzo and Machado there), that would be an unbelievable situation. Lots of ifs. But ifs of this magnitude rule out most teams. Typically contending teams with bright futures and deep pockets can endure risk of this caliber.

 

As for us...I think it would be great to see Machado here. But just don't think it's a good fit in a trade situation, NOW--in the event he resigns somewhere else. Could you imagine losing 2+ key pieces of our rebuild for a meaningless year of Machado (good or bad)? Do you think it's worth it to add him with the thought of flipping him at the deadline if we get the inclination he would not resign with us? That would limit the risk a little, but a deal for a mega-star player like Machado would take a while to complete. I do still think a team could part with a VERY TOP prospect at the deadline to get Manny Machado for their stretch run, with the inside track on resigning him if things went well. He's one of the very few who I think could make a difference large enough to justify that.

 

I don't know...just ramblin' some thoughts.

 

1) Nobody is taking Heyward and his contract off their hands, Cubs are stuck with him for now

 

2) Even the deep pocketed Cubs cannot afford BOTH Machado and Harper in free agency. Each player will command $30-40 million on the open market and it would be insane to commit that much payroll to two players. Cubs would be pushed way into the luxury tax.

[witesoxfan]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-manny-mac...ld-be-historic/

 

Heyward was traded for Shelby Miller (who was a top 10 prospect previously and had a couple of promising seasons) and Tyrell Jenkins (who had cracked top 100 lists previously but whose stock had dropped) and Machado is a better player than Heyward was.

 

From the White Sox perspective, I'd say that's about Giolito and Fulmer.

[FT35]

1) Nobody is taking Heyward and his contract off their hands, Cubs are stuck with him for now

 

2) Even the deep pocketed Cubs cannot afford BOTH Machado and Harper in free agency. Each player will command $30-40 million on the open market and it would be insane to commit that much payroll to two players. Cubs would be pushed way into the luxury tax.

 

I mean...I agree...but Theo is creative and he could find ways to make it happen. More years/less per year, moving Lester/Heyward/maybe even Zobrist, talking a player down to make a championship run.

 

My guess is that he's not THAT concerned with the luxury tax--given that his Red Sox were usually over when he was there and and his main competition was ALWAYS over it in NY. The luxury tax threshhold for 2018 is $197 million. If Machado and Harper made $30m each, that leaves $137 million to build the rest of their roster--a number that would have been 16th in MLB--right above teams like Cleveland and Houston. A payroll of $197 million would still only be 5th overall in MLB (using 2017 MLB numbers) and about $45 million LESS than the Dodgers. First off...It's insane money, I get it...but I bet Theo could write Machado's and Bryce's checks, bump his remaining salaries by $13 mil to spend $150 million on the remaining roster (only about $20 million less than his payroll from last year--for a total of $210 million). He'd be $13 million over the luxury tax line, costing him a whopping $2.2 million (lol) in luxury tax penalties...and STILL NOT have the highest payroll in MLB by a longshot. He would have Machado, Harper and a $150 million dollar roster around them.

 

There may be some revenue benefits that follow that type of move.

Edited December 18, 2017 by FT35

[peppers312]

I think the Sox still have the best offer on the board but Angelos is insisting on the Sox including more, which the Sox are wisely not doing. Thus, the Orioles don't feel they're getting enough for him and no trade will be made.

 

i hope this is very well the situation right now. there is NO reason at all the Sox need to get into a bidding war with anyone over Machado unless there's a long-term contract extension involved (which there isn't).

[Pasqua's Mailman]

I mean...I agree...but Theo is creative and he could find ways to make it happen. More years/less per year, moving Lester/Heyward/maybe even Zobrist, talking a player down to make a championship run.

 

My guess is that he's not THAT concerned with the luxury tax--given that his Red Sox were usually over when he was there and and his main competition was ALWAYS over it in NY. The luxury tax threshhold for 2018 is $197 million. If Machado and Harper made $30m each, that leaves $137 million to build the rest of their roster--a number that would have been 16th in MLB--right above teams like Cleveland and Houston. A payroll of $197 million would still only be 5th overall in MLB (using 2017 MLB numbers) and about $45 million LESS than the Dodgers. First off...It's insane money, I get it...but I bet Theo could write Machado's and Bryce's checks, bump his remaining salaries by $13 mil to spend $150 million on the remaining roster (only about $20 million less than his payroll from last year--for a total of $210 million). He'd be $13 million over the luxury tax line, costing him a whopping $2.2 million (lol) in luxury tax penalties...and STILL NOT have the highest payroll in MLB by a longshot. He would have Machado, Harper and a $150 million dollar roster around them.

 

There may be some revenue benefits that follow that type of move.

 

Theo may not be that concerned about the luxury tax but you can bet the Ricketts are. The old man is running the show over there and has absolutely no interest in touching the luxury tax. They are currently making boatloads of money and project to make more... the Ricketts didn't get to the position they are by walking away from profits. There is no way they are going to lower their profit margin when they don't have to.

[FT35]

Theo may not be that concerned about the luxury tax but you can bet the Ricketts are. The old man is running the show over there and has absolutely no interest in touching the luxury tax. They are currently making boatloads of money and project to make more... the Ricketts didn't get to the position they are by walking away from profits. There is no way they are going to lower their profit margin when they don't have to.

 

Totally! Just not sure if it would lower the profit margin or if it would actually raise it. That's for them to figure out though...

[Chicago White Sox]

I mean...I agree...but Theo is creative and he could find ways to make it happen. More years/less per year, moving Lester/Heyward/maybe even Zobrist, talking a player down to make a championship run.

 

My guess is that he's not THAT concerned with the luxury tax--given that his Red Sox were usually over when he was there and and his main competition was ALWAYS over it in NY. The luxury tax threshhold for 2018 is $197 million. If Machado and Harper made $30m each, that leaves $137 million to build the rest of their roster--a number that would have been 16th in MLB--right above teams like Cleveland and Houston. A payroll of $197 million would still only be 5th overall in MLB (using 2017 MLB numbers) and about $45 million LESS than the Dodgers. First off...It's insane money, I get it...but I bet Theo could write Machado's and Bryce's checks, bump his remaining salaries by $13 mil to spend $150 million on the remaining roster (only about $20 million less than his payroll from last year--for a total of $210 million). He'd be $13 million over the luxury tax line, costing him a whopping $2.2 million (lol) in luxury tax penalties...and STILL NOT have the highest payroll in MLB by a longshot. He would have Machado, Harper and a $150 million dollar roster around them.

 

There may be some revenue benefits that follow that type of move.

Theo may not care about the luxury tax, but the Ricketts sure as s*** do. How the Red Sox operated has nothing to do with how the Cubs operate. Also, the Cubs had nearly $100M in 2019 payroll commitments to like six players before they recently added a couple more relievers. Add in all their arbitration eligible players and that number is going to quickly skyrocket. Add in a hypothetical $75M for Machado & Harper and they’ll be well over the luxury tax. And I’m sure the Ricketts would love having three large, long-term contracts on their books at the same time. No risk there based on how the first one is shaking out.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[bmags]

I think the type of team that would make most sense would be a team like the Nationals, consistently there, window about to be closing, one last push to make a WS.

 

But, obviously they aren't and their roster doesn't make sense. The cards are the other team that could make sense, but they clearly still see their team and roles as one that is consistently competitive and aren't going to risk it.

 

The Yankees aren't in that mold but make sense in that they were nearly a WS team last year and expect to bid on his services the year thereafter.

 

So, again, I think it sucks for the orioles market right now because it's a bunch of teams that are basically telling the orioles that his 2018 production means nothing to them so they aren't going to pay that much for it.

[southsider2k5]

Theo may not be that concerned about the luxury tax but you can bet the Ricketts are. The old man is running the show over there and has absolutely no interest in touching the luxury tax. They are currently making boatloads of money and project to make more... the Ricketts didn't get to the position they are by walking away from profits. There is no way they are going to lower their profit margin when they don't have to.

 

The Ricketts are honestly paying a huge amount of debt down from their purchase of the team from TribCo. I don't think any reluctance is due to profits, but due to that debt being a big burden.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think the type of team that would make most sense would be a team like the Nationals, consistently there, window about to be closing, one last push to make a WS.

 

But, obviously they aren't and their roster doesn't make sense. The cards are the other team that could make sense, but they clearly still see their team and roles as one that is consistently competitive and aren't going to risk it.

 

The Yankees aren't in that mold but make sense in that they were nearly a WS team last year and expect to bid on his services the year thereafter.

 

So, again, I think it sucks for the orioles market right now because it's a bunch of teams that are basically telling the orioles that his 2018 production means nothing to them so they aren't going to pay that much for it.

So you're saying a Fulmer + Stephens package just might work