White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[Eminor3rd]

That's not really accurate. Kopech was not a top 10 prospect when Moncada and Devers were (And I believe only Law had Devers in the top 10).

 

BA had Kopech at #32.

BP had Kopech at #36.

 

I can't find a ranking for either MLB.com (Their link gets updated each time they do a list) or Law. I do think Law had Kopech higher than anyone else though.

 

 

Robert is a top 50 in every publication, Giolito was top 50 in every preseason publication since 2014, and Hansen will be top 50 by midseason next year

 

No one, anywhere, is higher on any of Giolito/Robert/Hansen than any of Moncada/Kopech/Devers. They are not in the same tier and there's no plausible way to argue otherwise.

[steveno89]

Not at all, lol.

 

Moncada/Kopech/Devers are all top ten overall prospects. Giolito/Robert/Hansen are like back-end top 100 guys.

 

Giolito/Robert/Hansen is a bigger package than what we got for the Sale or Eaton deal in my opinion, depending on what you think of Hansen.

 

I feel like he is a player who could crack the top 50 prospects by mid season if he continues to develop. Robert could be a top ten prospect with time as well.

 

Kopech is already one of the best pitching prospects overall right now.

 

No way I offer that much for Yelich, who is a very good player, but a tier or two below a superstar in my opinion.

[bmags]

Hmm. I don't think so. I would give away Giolito Robert or Hanson before I'd give away Kopech and I'd give away Giolito Robert or Hanson before I'd give away Moncada so I would take two elite talents any day over 3 very good ones.

[Dunt]

No one, anywhere, is higher on any of Giolito/Robert/Hansen than any of Moncada/Kopech/Devers. They are not in the same tier and there's no plausible way to argue otherwise.

 

Not saying they are, your claim that they are back end top 100 prospects is blatantly false though

[bmags]

Anyway I'm not sure why people aren't more glad that we don't have to make this choice for a rental.

 

Also, to yellich - the market this year has been really terrible toward sellers. So sniff around, but we just need to wait.

 

I don't see it getting much better for sellers next year, as what made it so special for the white sox was striking when all the top teams also had the top farms. Their arms race last year depleted that with the white sox getting the most gains.

 

This is what happens when the main buyers are the Giants, Angels and Dbacks, three teams with terrible farms.

 

 

[FT35]

Anyway I'm not sure why people aren't more glad that we don't have to make this choice for a rental.

 

Also, to yellich - the market this year has been really terrible toward sellers. So sniff around, but we just need to wait.

 

I don't see it getting much better for sellers next year, as what made it so special for the white sox was striking when all the top teams also had the top farms. Their arms race last year depleted that with the white sox getting the most gains.

 

This is what happens when the main buyers are the Giants, Angels and Dbacks, three teams with terrible farms.

 

Excellent point...the stars were certainly aligned in many ways.

[Eminor3rd]

Not saying they are, your claim that they are back end top 100 prospects is blatantly false though

 

Ok, so you're ignoring the entire conversation and everything being expressed for the sake of nit-picking on my use of "back-end top 100 guys" where I should have said "back HALF top 100 guys."

 

Accepted. Thank you for your contribution, even though it changed the conversation in no way.

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyway I'm not sure why people aren't more glad that we don't have to make this choice for a rental.

 

Also, to yellich - the market this year has been really terrible toward sellers. So sniff around, but we just need to wait.

 

I don't see it getting much better for sellers next year, as what made it so special for the white sox was striking when all the top teams also had the top farms. Their arms race last year depleted that with the white sox getting the most gains.

 

This is what happens when the main buyers are the Giants, Angels and Dbacks, three teams with terrible farms.

This is a great point and why I thank god every day for not letting the Sox “go for it” one last time. The amount of talent we brought in between the Sale, Eaton, & Quintana deals could very well be franchise altering. Prospects like Moncada & Jimenez are almost never traded and were able to capitalize on unique market factors to land those guys.

 

While Ozuna isn’t as good of an asset as we had, the return the Marlins got for him was pretty weak and very indicative of the market today. Probably even more reason to hold onto to Avi and hope he figures out how to get some loft, because any potential return will likely be pretty poor.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[bmags]

Exactly.

 

Let's perform an exercise. Assume Adam Eaton came off a 6 war season and was healthy, but the Nats now want to trade him to make room for Robles (hypothetical since obvi they have room now).

 

Who are the teams that would go after eaton?

What are their farms now?

 

In 2 years, you may have the White Sox, Pads and Braves in that position but for this and next year it's brutal. Right now you have to basically hope that the Astros, Yanks and Dodgers want your guy but they are stacked.

[GreenSox]

Why not wait to see what positions we are going to have holes at before making a big trade?

Agree

[Chicago White Sox]

Exactly.

 

Let's perform an exercise. Assume Adam Eaton came off a 6 war season and was healthy, but the Nats now want to trade him to make room for Robles (hypothetical since obvi they have room now).

 

Who are the teams that would go after eaton?

What are their farms now?

 

In 2 years, you may have the White Sox, Pads and Braves in that position but for this and next year it's brutal. Right now you have to basically hope that the Astros, Yanks and Dodgers want your guy but they are stacked.

Rockies seem like the best bet to give up premium talent right now given their window could be ending in the next couple of years.

[Chicago White Sox]

Who here would do Cease + Fulmer for Machado? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I have a feeling I’ll be in the minority on this one.

[GreenSox]

Who here would do Cease + Fulmer for Machado? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I have a feeling I’ll be in the minority on this one.

It's obviously a bargain, but still hurts the White Sox, so no.

 

Any contender would and should do that.

[oldsox]

Not me. I'll take an improving Yolmer/Carlos at third in our final rebuilding year. We don't know what we have in Cease.

[Chicago White Sox]

It's obviously a bargain, but still hurts the White Sox, so no.

 

Any contender would and should do that.

See to me, this is about as high as I’d go. If we’re unable to sign him long-term, we’d at least get a comp pick back. I’m willing to surrender the difference in value and pay his $17M salary to improve my chances of ultimately landing Machado.

[Lillian]

It's obviously a bargain, but still hurts the White Sox, so no.

 

Any contender would and should do that.

 

It is hard to argue against this point. As has been stated many times, in this thread; the Sox would be trading for a meaningless one season of Machado. That is dramatically different than the same proposition for a team, vying for a Championship. It makes no sense to give up valuable future assets, just for, what amounts to negotiating rights to a, soon to be, free agent. Under different circumstances, it might be worth giving up Cease and Fulmer. However, under these circumstances, it is not.

[bmags]

I just don't think it's a wise decision. It's certainly a price that is worth Machado's 2018 value. But it's not the right value for the white sox.

[steveno89]

Who here would do Cease + Fulmer for Machado? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I have a feeling I’ll be in the minority on this one.

 

It's probably a fair trade, but we do not know what Cease can become and it's too soon to give up on Fulmer.

 

I would not pay any higher of a price than that for one season of Machado

[fathom]

Can't believe Orioles didn't agree to trade Manny for Russell, Montgomery and Almora if that rumor is true

[Bob Sacamano]

Can't believe Orioles didn't agree to trade Manny for Russell, Montgomery and Almora if that rumor is true

 

Where was that posted?

[tray]

Can't believe Orioles didn't agree to trade Manny for Russell, Montgomery and Almora if that rumor is true

 

Orioles want (at least) two pitchers back.

[steveno89]

Can't believe Orioles didn't agree to trade Manny for Russell, Montgomery and Almora if that rumor is true

 

Id didn't see anywhere that the Cubs actually offered that^

[fathom]

Where was that posted?

 

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2...nd-britton.html

[Dam8610]

No one, anywhere, is higher on any of Giolito/Robert/Hansen than any of Moncada/Kopech/Devers. They are not in the same tier and there's no plausible way to argue otherwise.

 

No one ever said the two packages were equal today. My point was 2017 Giolito/Robert/Hansen = 2016 Moncada/Kopech/Devers.

[peppers312]

i think it's safe to say, and we should all agree, that the White Sox should just move on. the Orioles are asking WAY too much and we shouldn't give up anyone for a 1 year rental.

 

if the Sox were contending for a WS title next season and had a stacked farm system, maybe. but we all know that's not our present-day reality.