White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[steveno89]

He easily could come fast. I personally expect him to reach AA by the end of 2018. I think that’s where he’ll finally be challenged a bit, so 2020 seems like a pretty realistic ETA although 2019 wouldn’t completely shock me.

 

Man, how reassuring would it be to see Robert do very well in the low minors in 2018? Sox might aggressively start him in high A ball to accelerate his path to the majors, but I ultimately think they let him get his feet wet in Kannapolis for a bit first.

[Bob Sacamano]

I doubt teams are trading their top guys for a one year rental though, especially the White Sox. It would be criminal to give up a player like Kopech in a deal for one season of Machado with the cost of starting pitching.

 

Anything better than a Cease/Dunning level prospect would be a mistake in my opinion, and I do not love the idea of dealing either of those players as well. I get the "extended sales pitch" idea, but what is that worth in terms of our prospects?

 

I think I could stomach something like one of Cease/Dunning and one of Guerrero/Stephens and like a low-level prospect.

Edited December 15, 2017 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

A part of me thinks that the Yankees have the best offer on the table for Machado but the Orioles don't want to trade him to the Yankees. It was reported the Cardinals didn't want to trade 2 of their arms to grab him. Is it entirely possible Hahn sent a low-ball offer (not including Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Hansen, Cease nor top position players) to the Orioles for Machado and it's actually being considered? Remember that their GM isn't really the smartest. Could also explain why Hahn was surprised that their offer was reported as the best.

 

Their GM is smart, he has to deal with really stupid constraints and demands of the owner.

[hi8is]

OK lets look at some facts. Manny Machado is a gold glove 3rd baseman. Manny Machado has 2 bad knees. So why would he want to switch to SS ? Answer : To maximize his value. A premier SS is worth more than a corner infielder. So why would he wait till now to want to switch to SS ? Because he knows he has 2 bad knees and playing SS for 1 year right before free agency minimizes the health risk rather than doing it for multiple years.

 

Conclusion : No way in hell does Manny Machado not become a free agent. This is a calculated move on his part to make himself more valuable. It is a pipedream to think otherwise and would be a waste to offer anything to acquire him for a year and think he won't test free agency.

After so much regurgitation, here's a nugget of something new. Thanks Ron. ( virtual fist bump )...

[steveno89]

If you gave up a guy who in 3 years was a #2 starter for a guy you paid $17 million to in a contract year where your team only won 75 games and then had that guy walk as a free agent, that should be a firing offense for a GM.

 

That's why I would be open to a trade, but the following players are off limits: Eloy/Kopech/Moncada/Giolito/Lopez/Hansen/Robert/Cease/Dunning/Collins

 

They can select from: Fulmer, Adams, Stephens, etc. tier for a rental. Do they accept that? Probably not, but I absolutely refuse to surrender top prospects for one meaningless season of Machado.

 

 

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Sidenote: does anyone else think Dan Doquette looks like Dan Aykroyd?

[Balta1701]

That's why I would be open to a trade, but the following players are off limits: Eloy/Kopech/Moncada/Giolito/Lopez/Hansen/Robert/Cease/Dunning/Collins

 

They can select from: Fulmer, Adams, Stephens, etc. tier for a rental. Do they accept that? Probably not, but I absolutely refuse to surrender top prospects for one meaningless season of Machado.

I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances.

 

If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule?

 

Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason.

[steveno89]

I think I could stomach something like one of Cease/Dunning and one of Guerrero/Stephens and like a low-level prospect.

 

Cease is a guy I would hesitate to toss away in a trade. He has dealt with injuries and needs to build up his innings, but his stuff is legitimate mlb quality. He's a player I could see us regretting dealing too soon and could be primed for a breakout with his plus plus fastball and plus power curveball. If he can't handle starting he certainly has the stuff to be a setup man or closer.

 

Dunning is a guy who profiles as a solid #4 starter in the majors who can eat a ton of innings for you. That is still a valuable player.

 

 

[steveno89]

I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances.

 

If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule?

 

Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason.

 

In all honesty I still believe that Fulmer can develop at the mlb level and be solid.

 

Flipping any of these young pitchers is a mistake, especially since you can never have too much pitching. We will be counting on these arms to bring us a championship moving forward.

[Balta1701]

In all honesty I still believe that Fulmer can develop at the mlb level and be solid.

 

Flipping any of these young pitchers is a mistake, especially since you can never have too much pitching. We will be counting on these arms to bring us a championship moving forward.

I am 100% in agreement. I could live with losing 1 of them if an extension was guaranteed, but it sure doesn't seem to be, hence, I'm baffled and talking about the GM being fired if he's wrong.

[Bob Sacamano]

Cease is a guy I would hesitate to toss away in a trade. He has dealt with injuries and needs to build up his innings, but his stuff is legitimate mlb quality. He's a player I could see us regretting dealing too soon and could be primed for a breakout with his plus plus fastball and plus power curveball. If he can't handle starting he certainly has the stuff to be a setup man or closer.

 

Dunning is a guy who profiles as a solid #4 starter in the majors who can eat a ton of innings for you. That is still a valuable player.

 

I actually didn't mean to put Cease there. I meant it as just Dunning.

[Dick Allen]

I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances.

 

If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule?

 

Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason.

Fulmer looked great in September vs. Det and SF. I wouldn't hang a hat on that.

 

He also did really well vs. Cleveland after they clinched. Of course the bullpen did even better that game.

 

I still have hope for Fulmer, but taking his September performance as meaningful isn't wise. Maybe it gives him some confidence. Maybe something clicked. But he really wasn't pitching typical major league baseball.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Fulmer looked great in September vs. Det and SF. I wouldn't hang a hat on that.

We literally said word for word this exact post about GFloyd in 07. He had 3 or 4 balls hit to the wall in Detroit that leave 27 other ballparks. But he built on that.

[Dick Allen]

We literally said word for word this exact post about GFloyd in 07. He had 3 or 4 balls hit to the wall in Detroit that leave 27 other ballparks. But he built on that.

Floyd was a bit more successful in the minor leagues that year than Fulmer was in 2017. As Ozzie says, don't believe what you see in September.

[SoxAce]

Cease is a guy I would hesitate to toss away in a trade. He has dealt with injuries and needs to build up his innings, but his stuff is legitimate mlb quality. He's a player I could see us regretting dealing too soon and could be primed for a breakout with his plus plus fastball and plus power curveball. If he can't handle starting he certainly has the stuff to be a setup man or closer.

 

Dunning is a guy who profiles as a solid #4 starter in the majors who can eat a ton of innings for you. That is still a valuable player.

 

Completely agree.. about both guys. I'm a huge Cease fan especially. Kid may be Rich Harden (certainly has the same delivery), But I'll gladly take that kind of stuff. They can start with Fulmer and work their way down the prospect list.

[bmags]

Anyone in a weird in-between where they don't want this deal to happen but also love baseball trades and so you find yourself rooting for a trade even though you dread it?

 

Anyway. Can the cards just please take this to the finish line?

[Chicago White Sox]

If you gave up a guy who in 3 years was a #2 starter for a guy you paid $17 million to in a contract year where your team only won 75 games and then had that guy walk as a free agent, that should be a firing offense for a GM.

Why are we assuming Cease will automatically be a #2 starter? There’s a reason his projected WAR over his first six seasons is like 2 or so because of the high bust potential a guy like him has. That’s not to say we should just give him away, but adding Machado for the 2018 season improves our chances to sign him long-term at some point and we should recognize that value whether he signs with us or not. It’s all about probability and making sure you pay the right price. I think it’s pretty f***ing awesome Hahn is thinking outside the box and is willing to take a calculated risk.

[Dick Allen]

If it were a guarantee Machado would sign with the White Sox if they traded for him, and a guarantee he wouldn't if they did not, I would trade them Kopech. But that isn't the case. Keep the prospects and come up with a huge offer next winter.

[Balta1701]

Why are we assuming Cease will automatically be a #2 starter? There’s a reason his projected WAR over his first six seasons is like 2 or so because of the high bust potential a guy like him has. That’s not to say we should just give him away, but adding Machado for the 2018 season improves our chances to sign him long-term at some point and we should recognize that value whether he signs with us or not. It’s all about probability and making sure you pay the right price. I think it’s pretty f***ing awesome Hahn is thinking outside the box and is willing to take a calculated risk.

And if his calculated risk flops, are we willing to fire him? We haven't been so far on any of his other calculated risks. This entire "uncalculable increase in our chances to sign him long term" seems so much like a happy fantasy to me that if the fantasy is blown apart by reality, we should be.

[Chicago White Sox]

I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances.

 

If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule?

 

Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason.

When did you become the guy who suddenly thinks every prospect will work out?

[Balta1701]

When did you become the guy who suddenly thinks every prospect will work out?

This trade concept only makes sense if you think the organization can know which ones will work and which ones won't.

 

Edit: Oh and I'm really down on Rodon if that counts.

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone in a weird in-between where they don't want this deal to happen but also love baseball trades and so you find yourself rooting for a trade even though you dread it?

 

Anyway. Can the cards just please take this to the finish line?

Lol...totally feel this way, but I’m still rooting for it assuming the cost is reasonable.

[Bob Sacamano]

Anyone in a weird in-between where they don't want this deal to happen but also love baseball trades and so you find yourself rooting for a trade even though you dread it?

 

Anyway. Can the cards just please take this to the finish line?

 

Yeah this is how I feel lol if it ends up being a lot more reasonable than we expect, I'll be fine.

[yesterday333]

This trade concept only makes sense if you think the organization can know which ones will work and which ones won't.

 

Edit: Oh and I'm really down on Rodon if that counts.

Are there any players in our system youd be willing to trade for Machado? Is there a starting point for you or are you against trading anybody for him?

[yesterday333]

Why does Cease keep getting brought up. They've said no top prospects and he is in the top 100, I have no reason to believe he would be included.