White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[bmags]

So notably:

-Kenley Janson signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market?)

- Justin Turner signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market)

- Jason Heyward signed with Cubs for less money (...big market?)

- Dexter Fowler signed with Cards for most money

- Yo Cespedes is up for debate.

- Chapman went to Yanks for most money

 

...It happens but...it sure seems like some of the bigger franchises have been getting discounts despite it being incredibly perverse

[SonofaRoache]

And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there.

 

 

Wasn't Cano already 31 when he signed that deal? Makes sense why no one crossed 200 million for his services. Machado is 25 so teams will definitely offer money to the ceiling. Also, I think the Yankees know if they are going to pay luxury taxes and if they're going after him I don't think money is an issue.

[SonofaRoache]

So notably:

-Kenley Janson signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market?)

- Justin Turner signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market)

- Jason Heyward signed with Cubs for less money (...big market?)

- Dexter Fowler signed with Cards for most money

- Yo Cespedes is up for debate.

- Chapman went to Yanks for most money

 

...It happens but...it sure seems like some of the bigger franchises have been getting discounts despite it being incredibly perverse

 

 

To be fair, Chapman was with the Yankees before, and Fowler won a Championship with the lovable losers, so he could money chase at that point. I don't think rental players would take a discount without success being imminent. And success is not imminent here.

Edited December 15, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[LittleHurt05]

So notably:

-Kenley Janson signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market?)

- Justin Turner signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market)

- Jason Heyward signed with Cubs for less money (...big market?)

- Dexter Fowler signed with Cards for most money

- Yo Cespedes is up for debate.

- Chapman went to Yanks for most money

 

...It happens but...it sure seems like some of the bigger franchises have been getting discounts despite it being incredibly perverse

 

Jansen and Turner had larger offers? I thought the Dodgers also threw the most money out there.

 

While Heyward technically signed for less money, the potential to opt out in 3 years gave him the potential to earn more money if he signed with the Cubs instead of the Cardinals. Obviously, that didn't work out his way, but I don't think that's the best example.

[bmags]

Jansen and Turner had larger offers? I thought the Dodgers also threw the most money out there.

 

While Heyward technically signed for less money, the potential to opt out in 3 years gave him the potential to earn more money if he signed with the Cubs instead of the Cardinals. Obviously, that didn't work out his way, but I don't think that's the best example.

 

Jansen was reportedly offered more by the Nats, and I've heard over and over that Turner could have gotten more. The market wasn't great but 4 for 52 or whatever was cheap.

 

And maybe that's true, but sox would have same opportunity. Heyward made a big deal about hwo he didn't choose the best offer, though.

edit: turner was 4 for 64.

[SonofaRoache]

If Manny Machado can't see that this team is going to be a monster in 2020 then I look forward to beating the tar out of whatever team he plays for.

 

 

That's the problem with our thinking, rebuilds don't always turn into monsters. Most of them actually fail or just end up mediocre. He may see some talent, but that talent has done little at this point to warrant the benefit of the doubt (although Kopech, Giolito, Moncada, and Jiminez are showing promise). Our hope is that changes next season in the majors and minors.

[Dick Allen]

Everyone has different experiences working or playing or eating or being in the same places. What makes it a slam dunk that Machado's experience would be so great the White Sox would be in the front of the line.

[bmags]

Everyone has different experiences working or playing or eating or being in the same places. What makes it a slam dunk that Machado's experience would be so great the White Sox would be in the front of the line.

 

No one would give you an absolute, I'm sure Hahn wouldn't. I'm sure he'd tell you, as he has told the media, that they think it would be easier than going in cold, i.e. increase their chances and not guarantee it.

 

 

[SonofaRoache]

Everyone has different experiences working or playing or eating or being in the same places. What makes it a slam dunk that Machado's experience would be so great the White Sox would be in the front of the line.

 

 

It's not a slam dunk at all. What is close to a slam dunk is if he does like it here and we pay up, he will more than like re-sign. Whereas if he isn't here, and he's deciding simply on money and perception, we'd probably not even get a seriously look. When you're battling against teams like the Yanks and BoSox for elite talent and money is similar, you are in trouble. Any advantage you can get, take it.

Edited December 15, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[TheTruth05]

No one would give you an absolute, I'm sure Hahn wouldn't. I'm sure he'd tell you, as he has told the media, that they think it would be easier than going in cold, i.e. increase their chances and not guarantee it.

 

This exactly, will anybody worry about giving up Fulmer or Cease if the 1 season around the Sox FO and clubhouse makes that lasting impression to give the Sox a bit of a nudge in the Machado sweepstakes? Sox can offer close to the highest bidder and sell him on the young talent he saw develop all season. If he can't see that he was never gonna sign here anyway but its worth the risk.

[Dick Allen]

It's not a slam dunk at all. What is close to a slam dunk is if he does like it here and we pay up, he will more than like re-sign. Whereas if he isn't here, and he's deciding simply on money and perception, we'd probably not even get a seriously look.

If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before. Luckily they didn't give up anything of significance for their services. That will be different in this case. A whiff is going to hurt, and the White Sox with a $300 million + free agent are like Adam Dunn with an 0-2 count vs. Randy Johnson in his prime.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[SonofaRoache]

If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before.

 

 

What sound strategy have the White Sox used to attract big named MLB proven talent to sign in FA? Teams like the Sox aren't going to win FA battles often for eite talent. We end up having to trade for damaged goods and old has beens. The Sox have to get creative in finding ways to bring young elite talent here. It may fail but so has everything else. Even if we trade two nice pieces, our rebuild still will be loaded with talent. Those guys you listed are not elite or young talents we want for the next 10 years.

Edited December 15, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[Dick Allen]

What sound strategy have the White Sox used to attract big named MLB proven talent to sign in FA? Teams like the Sox aren't going to win FA battles often for eite talent. We end up having to trade for damaged goods and old has beens. The Sox have to get creative in finding ways to bring young elite talent here. Those guys you listed are not elite or young talents we want for the next 10 years.

So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now.

[SonofaRoache]

So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now.

 

 

No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive.

[Dick Allen]

No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive.

5 percent to 75 percent? What do you base that on?

 

I am of the belief if the White Sox offer him a $320 million next November the chances of him signing with him playing here for a year or not, are pretty much the same. In some ways, it might even be better if he didn't come here and lose, and they could sell him on all the young talent and adding him...If he was already here and some of the talent was here and they weren't winning, which is hard to imagine with what the pitching staff is most likely going to look like, it would look almost hopeless.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

No one would give you an absolute, I'm sure Hahn wouldn't. I'm sure he'd tell you, as he has told the media, that they think it would be easier than going in cold, i.e. increase their chances and not guarantee it.

100% this. No one here is saying it’s a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn’t be. It’s about improving their odds.

[Chicago White Sox]

If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before. Luckily they didn't give up anything of significance for their services. That will be different in this case. A whiff is going to hurt, and the White Sox with a $300 million + free agent are like Adam Dunn with an 0-2 count vs. Randy Johnson in his prime.

Because the didn’t offer as much money as the competition? That’s a requirement for this plan to work in the first place...

[Dick Allen]

100% this. No one here is saying it’s a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn’t be. It’s about improving their odds.

You increase your chances tenfold when you buy 10 powerball tickets, yet it still doesn't work out most of the time.

[Chicago White Sox]

So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now.

Now you’re just being purposely obtuse. Every single person in favor of acquiring him now also realizes we must match whatever offer he eventually gets. No one is suggesting a discount, yet you keep reverting back to this point. Letting him develop a bond with our coaches & players may create a tie-breaker if the financials are equal. I don’t know how else to explain this.

[jenksycat]

No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive.

 

Absolutely no way you can claim this

[Chicago White Sox]

You increase your chances tenfold when you buy 10 powerball tickets, yet it still doesn't work out most of the time.

Lol...if the odds of landing Machado is as good as winning the Powerball then the mods should just shut down this thread. But without using ridiculous exaggerations, let’s say we have a 10% chance of signing him next offseason if we’re willing to match his best offer. If having him on the roster for the 2018 season improves our chance to let’s say 50%, again assuming we’re willing to match his best offer, does that seem like a value add? Debate the percentages all you like, but him getting to our players & organization will likely improve our chances of landing him. How much you pay for that benefit is also a good question, but there is most certainly a price I’d pay for it regardless if the Orioles would accept it or not.

[Eminor3rd]

No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive.

 

You can increase your odds to 75 percent simply by being willing to top any offer. You don't have to give up any prospects.

[Dick Allen]

Now you’re just being purposely obtuse. Every single person in favor of acquiring him now also realizes we must match whatever offer he eventually gets. No one is suggesting a discount, yet you keep reverting back to this point. Letting him develop a bond with our coaches & players may create a tie-breaker if the financials are equal. I don’t know how else to explain this.

Then tell me why if the White Sox offered the exact same money as the Yankees and Dodgers, the teams you mentioned, he most assuredly would sign with one of them if he didn't play for the White Sox in 2018, but if he did play for the White Sox, the same means he would stay?

[witesoxfan]

By acquiring him, you are acquiring exclusive negotiating rights for 8-10 months. That's the price you're paying. Is it worth it to be able to talk to Machado and ask him what he wants for a long-term contract? The percentages don't matter whatsoever.

[BlackSox13]

100% this. No one here is saying it’s a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn’t be. It’s about improving their odds.

Depending on the prospects offered, it could be a risky move. But, getting Machado now helps to build bonds with future core players like Moncada, TA, Giolito, Lopez to help try and lure Machado back in free agency, or sign an extension. Another aspect that might help is to have Machado on the team when Eloy gets called up and begins mashing on the south side. Same with Kopech eventually joining the Sox rotation. Getting Machado now would allow the Sox an opportunity to show Machado first hand all the exciting things to come. It's a season long sales pitch to entice Machado to stick around an additional ten years beyond 2018. Would love to know exactly what the Sox offered Baltimore.