White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[Dick Allen]

Until this came up, I have never read one post on this board discussing the advantages of trading prospects for prospective free agents to better position you to sign them in a year. Not when the Sox were trying to win, when it would at least make a little sense, and certainly not during a rebuild and a season where they aren't going to win.

[southsider2k5]

100% this. No one here is saying it's a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn't be. It's about improving their odds.

 

And the White Sox do have a pretty good history of having players like here and wanting to stay. Guys like Buehrle, Konerko, Garcia and others spent long periods of time here, resigning deals when they could have left. Jose Abreu and Avi Garcia keep talking about how they want to stay here. The White Sox also have a guy in the dugout that the players really seem to like and respect in Ricky Renteria. To bring a guy in for a year is basically getting to give him a free test drive that no one else in baseball would be able to get. You get to show off some of the intangibles that would be concepts to a free agent unless they were actually experienced.

 

The other part is that if this does absolutely fail, we aren't married to the guy either. If he doesn't like it here, if he is too much of a cancer in the clubhouse, if he doesn't respect management....whatever, you still have the option to trade him at the deadline. Or you can sit through it and get your compensation pick/s once he does leave. A deadline deal would recoup a lot of value for a frontline guy like Machado's ability to change a pennant race.

 

Nothing is nearly as absolute as a few here are pedaling, but this absolutely should improve your odds to sell the kid on the White Sox. If it doesn't, move him along for the best package at the deadline. If the rumors are true about no top line players being in the deal, it is worth the gamble.

[bmags]

Until this came up, I have never read one post on this board discussing the advantages of trading prospects for prospective free agents to better position you to sign them in a year. Not when the Sox were trying to win, when it would at least make a little sense, and certainly not during a rebuild and a season where they aren't going to win.

 

Correct, and that's why it has been so unpopular. Like 95% of people is saying it isn't worth the risk.

 

On the other hand, I haven't read a single person indicate that it would guarantee the white sox sign him, yet that is the direction you have chosen to beat with a giant stick into this thread for hours.

 

Can we move on?

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Until this came up, I have never read one post on this board discussing the advantages of trading prospects for prospective free agents to better position you to sign them in a year. Not when the Sox were trying to win, when it would at least make a little sense, and certainly not during a rebuild and a season where they aren't going to win.

 

Because of the news connecting the Sox to Machado. No one really thought about it until it became a realistic possibility (Sox trading for Machado that is). It's pretty much just figuring out why.

Edited December 15, 2017 by soxfan2014

[Dick Allen]

Correct, and that's why it has been so unpopular. Like 95% of people is saying it isn't worth the risk.

 

On the other hand, I haven't read a single person indicate that it would guarantee the white sox sign him, yet that is the direction you have chosen to beat with a giant stick into this thread for hours.

 

Can we move on?

I am just saying that it doesn't improve their odds, and if you follow White Sox history, does indicate, they really aren't committed to being the highest bidder, which, for Manny Machado, is the death knell to their chances. Paulie didn't get the most money even after the WS, Buerhle didn't get the most money and then when he did get a great offer from Miami, they told him to take it. They seem to expect guys think playing for them is like going to Disneyland and play for less. Maybe for a guy that has been around for a while that could work, but not a guy that is there for one season.

 

And, everyone tries to qualify that, well as long as they don't give up much...that isn't going to happen either. So moving on would be deleting the entire thread.

 

I read most of the "experts" out there, many who know Machado, many who know more MLB players than me, and the vast majority of them don't get it either. But Rick Hahn said it, and he currently is on a shrine, so it must be true.

 

If the White Sox do make the trade and give up an impressive package as Gonzalez wrote, and Machado leaves with the Sox getting nothing, someone should be held accountable. Would you agree with that?

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

I am just saying that it doesn't improve their odds, and if you follow White Sox history, does indicate, they really aren't committed to being the highest bidder, which, for Manny Machado, is the death knell to their chances.

 

And, everyone tries to qualify that, well as long as they don't give up much...that isn't going to happen either. So moving on would be deleting the entire thread.

 

I read most of the "experts" out there, many who know Machado, many who know more MLB players than me, and the vast majority of them don't get it either. But Rick Hahn said it, and he currently is on a shrine, so it must be true.

 

If the White Sox do make the trade and give up an impressive package as Gonzalez wrote, and Machado leaves with the Sox getting nothing, someone should be held accountable. Would you agree with that?

 

Can you direct me to this? The only thing I've seen the past day is that the package isn't that great.

[Dick Allen]

Can you direct me to this? The only thing I've seen the past day is that the package isn't that great.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...1214-story.html

[Bob Sacamano]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...1214-story.html

 

Thanks.

 

Edit: since this was posted, hasn't everyone been saying the offer isn't that great?

Edited December 15, 2017 by soxfan2014

[fathom]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanClarkSports/s...772034241044480

[bmags]

I am just saying that it doesn't improve their odds, and if you follow White Sox history, does indicate, they really aren't committed to being the highest bidder, which, for Manny Machado, is the death knell to their chances.

 

And, everyone tries to qualify that, well as long as they don't give up much...that isn't going to happen either. So moving on would be deleting the entire thread.

 

I read most of the "experts" out there, many who know Machado, many who know more MLB players than me, and the vast majority of them don't get it either. But Rick Hahn said it, and he currently is on a shrine, so it must be true.

 

If the White Sox do make the trade and give up an impressive package as Gonzalez wrote, and Machado leaves with the Sox getting nothing, someone should be held accountable. Would you agree with that?

 

If I'm to be honest, I think it does improve their odds. OR I think it will at least provide the white sox, who clearly were planning to go after Machado, to know whether Machado will decide early or do the maximum leverage play of forcing teams against each other until Jan/Feb.

 

Like, for instance, say they negotiate and get an idea of his headspace, but Machado wants to know on the market, but their new relationship leads to the idea that he'll get some offers, but if the white sox match his highest offer he'll sign with them, and not continue to shop it around.

 

I think reinsdorf feels comfortably aggressive when he knows the deal can get done quick (abreu). But I think he hates situations like Cespedes, and, the one I think he always thinks of is Rodriguez.

 

I think the White Sox do want Machado in their longterm plans, and have a aggressive offer planned, but will not play the game of months long jockeying.

 

They are paying potentially good prospects to know the above. It's a terrible idea. But I do think it is attractive to them for the scenarios above, it either increases their opportunity or gives them certainty a lot sooner that they need a plan b, whom they can move aggressively on with a big offer.

 

edit: you also added a last sentence. And hell yes, if we do this and we don't get him and we gave up 2-3 pitchers in my "likely to be MLB" pitchers tier, I would go back to having zero trust in our Front Office and wanting them to be fired.

[fathom]

It worries me the Sox have strongest offer. These other teams aren't offering mid-level prospects for him.

[Dick Allen]

Thanks.

 

Edit: since this was posted, hasn't everyone been saying the offer isn't that great?

I think it's gamesmanship. No one except the Orioles and White Sox know what the offer is. But if it isn't strong, would the Orioles really be considering it?

 

I'm pretty sure if there was a deal, there would be a player or two, everyone would say wow, that's not exactly not a strong offer.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanClarkSports/s...772034241044480

 

I liked this rumor a lot more when it was expected to be over today.

 

I think I'm moving on from the cardinals saving us to the ...Phillies now?

[fathom]

Seeing on twitter that Yanks announcer Michael Kay said today that Machado wants to sign with Yankees next offseason

[Dick Allen]

Seeing on twitter that Yanks announcer Michael Kay said today that Machado wants to sign with Yankees next offseason

Just wonder how they would fit him in. That payroll is going to be even more ridiculous in a couple of years.

[Leonard Zelig]

Why would Philadelphia trade for him? They lost more games than the White Sox last year.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just wonder how they would fit him in. That payroll is going to be even more ridiculous in a couple of years.

 

They're going to be playing a lot of young near minimum paid players. Also helps the luxury tax threshold jumps up like $10mill between 18 and 19. If they can get someone to take on at least half that Ellsbury contract, it doesn't look impossible:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NY...contracts.shtml

Edited December 15, 2017 by soxfan2014

[SonofaRoache]

Absolutely no way you can claim this

 

 

It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA.

[Dick Allen]

They're going to be playing a lot of young near minimum players. Also helps the luxury tax jumps up like $10mill between 18 and 19.

Yes but with Stanton and Machado and Tanaka, and they still need some pitchers, their young guys will start to become more expensive, and I think they have been over the line all the time, they are going to get smoked. They will also get smoked if they sign a QO offer guy. They lose 2 draft picks and I believe $1 million in international spending.

[shipps]

I actually trust Hahn with this one. He doesnt want to throw away all the prospects and capital hes earned with whitesox fans by blowing it away on a rental. The players he gives up will make sense, I am confident.

[Dick Allen]

It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA.

If the White Sox offer him enough money and everyone is qualifying it by saying they still have to pay, they will not have zero shot.

 

KW was just bragging the other day how they just need a shot to talk to these players. He was upset Ohtani didn't give him one. Machado will. So let's see if they can make it happen. Supposedly the presentation to Tanaka was quite impressive, but he was pretty much Yankees anyway and the Sox offer was short.

 

Several years ago, Bruce Levine staked his reputation that Omar Vizquel would sign with the Sox. SF offered him a better contract, and Bruce lost his reputation. KW got Torii Hunter all excited and ready to sign until the Angels offered more dough. Bye Torii. Money still is king, especially when you are talking about a team you have no history with and one season is hardly much history to move that needle.

 

In the end, if the pot is right, the Sox have a shot.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dick Allen

[jenksycat]

It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA.

 

Again, absolutely no way you can claim this.

[bmags]

Why would Philadelphia trade for him? They lost more games than the White Sox last year.

They just signed Carlos Santana, they signed Neshek back, Crawford will be up full time and their pitchers are healthy and in year 3. Full year of Rhys.

 

They would trade for him same reason we would, whatever this "leg up" is in negotiations.

[fathom]

If Machado is sending out feelers he only wants to go to Yankees, Hahn better have a plan in mind to how he will offload him back to NY if it's clear he won't want to stay here

[Princess Dye]

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@DanClarkSports

25m25 minutes ago

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