White Sox have shown interest in Machado

[Whisox05]

#WhiteSox have had trade talks this offseason on both Manny Machado and Christian Yelich, but sources say they were not progressing toward a deal on either as of yesterday. @MLBNetwork @MLB

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/946739927395467264

[bmags]

https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/status/947191866721681408

 

With a package like that no wonder Sox were early favorites. Chavis and Groome...blech.

[southsider2k5]

https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/status/947191866721681408

 

With a package like that no wonder Sox were early favorites. Chavis and Groome...blech.

 

And the Orioles are looking for more? For a RENTAL? What idiots. That is one hell of a return.

[GreatScott82]

Dombrowski has to be feeling the pressure in Boston. Any deal for Machado would completely gut the remains of their thinning farm system.

[hi8is]

And the Orioles are looking for more? For a RENTAL? What idiots. That is one hell of a return.

I read the tweet as the names being mentioned - rather than both of them being offered concurrently. You'd have to imagine Baltimore isn't stupid enough to turn down such a deal... but then again, this is Baltimore we're talking about... after all.

[Soha]

And the Orioles are looking for more? For a RENTAL? What idiots. That is one hell of a return.

 

I'm going to guess that Baltimore would view it as more than a rental, with Machado likely resigning with the Red Sox. They sure have the need and the money. Also there's the 'expect an overpay' if you deal within the division. They already showed great hesitancy to trade him to NYY, so I would imagine the Red Sox would be viewed similarly.

[Jack Parkman]

I don't want to trade Giolito under any circumstances this offseason because I have a sneaky suspicion that he's going to come into spring training throwing 95+ again. He had to rebuild his delivery from scratch after the Nationals messed with it, and I'd imagine that most of the kid's performance in AAA/loss of velocity was due to gaining new muscle memory and repeating his delivery. I find it hard to believe that he has just magically lost 5 mph off his fastball with no injury reported, therefore I think that after a season of the kid gaining comfort with his delivery again, the velocity will return. If it does, he's right there with Kopech and Hansen for stud ace potential.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Jack Parkman

[Jerksticks]

I don't want to trade Giolito under any circumstances this offseason because I have a sneaky suspicion that he's going to come into spring training throwing 95+ again. He had to rebuild his delivery from scratch after the Nationals messed with it, and I'd imagine that most of the kid's performance in AAA/loss of velocity was due to gaining new muscle memory and repeating his delivery. I find it hard to believe that he has just magically lost 5 mph off his fastball with no injury reported, therefore I think that after a season of the kid gaining comfort with his delivery again, the velocity will return. If it does, he's right there with Kopech and Hansen for stud ace potential.

 

My lady is in trouble tonight with the stiffy this post just gave me. Love the idea of that velo returning. Mercy

[SoxAce]

I'm going to guess that Baltimore would view it as more than a rental, with Machado likely resigning with the Red Sox.

 

He absolutely hates Boston though, but money talks. Would be interesting (with him there and him in that clubhouse).

[oldsox]

I don't want to trade Giolito under any circumstances this offseason because I have a sneaky suspicion that he's going to come into spring training throwing 95+ again. He had to rebuild his delivery from scratch after the Nationals messed with it, and I'd imagine that most of the kid's performance in AAA/loss of velocity was due to gaining new muscle memory and repeating his delivery. I find it hard to believe that he has just magically lost 5 mph off his fastball with no injury reported, therefore I think that after a season of the kid gaining comfort with his delivery again, the velocity will return. If it does, he's right there with Kopech and Hansen for stud ace potential.

Ditto. I have thought the same thing, but you expressed it perfectly.

[Jack Parkman]

Ditto. I have thought the same thing, but you expressed it perfectly.

When it comes to velocity and spin rate, 95-96 with above average spin>98-99 with below average spin. High spin makes it harder to pick up the ball to the eye of the hitter, and 96 with above average spin might as well be 100, and 99 with below average spin might as well be 94. You have to use both data points together. Have you ever seen guys throw upper 90s and still get destroyed by hitters? I have, and now we have found that the reason why is they had below average spin.

[oldsox]

When it comes to velocity and spin rate, 95-96 with above average spin>98-99 with below average spin. High spin makes it harder to pick up the ball to the eye of the hitter, and 96 with above average spin might as well be 100, and 99 with below average spin might as well be 94. You have to use both data points together. Have you ever seen guys throw upper 90s and still get destroyed by hitters? I have, and now we have found that the reason why is they had below average spin.

How does Giolito's spin rate compare with others?

[Jack Parkman]

How does Giolito's spin rate compare with others?

It was well below average at the beginning of the year, but he sacrificed a bit of velocity for spin and it is working well for him. It is still below average, but he still has a higher perceived than actual velocity, which I'd imagine has to do with him being tall and hiding the ball in his delivery. If he can keep adding spin, and start topping out at 96 again, I think he will be that ace that everyone has talked about. Some were advocating that he add a sinker last year because his FB spin rate was so much lower than the MLB average. If you go to the player page on MLB.com they have this data available for all pitchers. Here's Giolito's- http://m.mlb.com/player/608337/lucas-giolito

 

For comparison's sake, I will add the data pages from the "super aces" that have FB data avaliable so we can see that.

Sale- http://m.mlb.com/player/519242/chris-sale

Verlander- http://m.mlb.com/player/434378/justin-verlander

Scherzer- http://m.mlb.com/player/453286/max-scherzer

Kershaw- http://m.mlb.com/player/477132/clayton-kershaw

 

Also will post Sox young pitchers at MLB level

Lopez- http://m.mlb.com/player/625643/reynaldo-lopez

Fulmer- http://m.mlb.com/player/608334/carson-fulmer

Rodon- http://m.mlb.com/player/607074/carlos-rodon

Edited December 31, 2017 by Jack Parkman

[credezcrew24]

When it comes to velocity and spin rate, 95-96 with above average spin>98-99 with below average spin. High spin makes it harder to pick up the ball to the eye of the hitter, and 96 with above average spin might as well be 100, and 99 with below average spin might as well be 94. You have to use both data points together. Have you ever seen guys throw upper 90s and still get destroyed by hitters? I have, and now we have found that the reason why is they had below average spin.

 

You're talking like that's the sole reason why. Can you point to any articles stressing the importance relative to other advanced metrics?

 

[Jack Parkman]

No, control problems have a bunch to do with it as well. Spin=the scouting term "late life/break" As in they can quantify that scout speak term now.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 33m33 minutes ago #Indians, #Orioles have discussed Manny Machado this offseason; no active talks at the moment, sources say, but Cleveland could be best fit of all for a Machado deal. Story: https://www.mlb.com/news/indians-match-up-well-for-manny-machado-deal/c-264948524 …://https://www.mlb.com/news/indians-ma...l/c-264948524 … @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

 

[greg775]

What about Manny Machado's stat line last season makes him worth all the money he's going to get? If he has an off year it should be interesting to see the excuses of fans still wanting to pay him 30 mill a year. Last year .259, 33, 95 RBI. His OBP .310 with 50 walks against 115 strikeouts. Since everybody's talking Avi's BABIP, what does Manny's suggest for this year? Decline? Or he's going to be great?

 

I mean I like Machado's traditional stats OK enough. .259 is blah. But at a similar age, Avi hit .330 with 18 HRs, 80 RBI. 33 walks, 111 Ks. Avi's BA was much higher, Manny's HRs and RBIs greater. Manny had more than 100 more at bats.

 

Hosmer, who is considered a god and about to make 20 mill or more year hit .318, 25 HRS, 94 RBI, 66 BBs, 104 Ks. He's about to enter his age 28 season and wants 8 years.

 

Abreu hit .304 with 33 HR, 102 RBI and .354 OBP with 35 walks, 115 Ks and he's entering age 31 season. Arguably he's better production than Hosmer only 3 years older.

[Bob Sacamano]

What about Manny Machado's stat line last season makes him worth all the money he's going to get? If he has an off year it should be interesting to see the excuses of fans still wanting to pay him 30 mill a year. Last year .259, 33, 95 RBI. His OBP .310 with 50 walks against 115 strikeouts. Since everybody's talking Avi's BABIP, what does Manny's suggest for this year? Decline? Or he's going to be great?

 

I mean I like Machado's traditional stats OK enough. .259 is blah. But at a similar age, Avi hit .330 with 18 HRs, 80 RBI. 33 walks, 111 Ks. Avi's BA was much higher, Manny's HRs and RBIs greater. Manny had more than 100 more at bats.

 

Hosmer, who is considered a god and about to make 20 mill or more year hit .318, 25 HRS, 94 RBI, 66 BBs, 104 Ks. He's about to enter his age 28 season and wants 8 years.

 

Abreu hit .304 with 33 HR, 102 RBI and .354 OBP with 35 walks, 115 Ks and he's entering age 31 season. Arguably he's better production than Hosmer only 3 years older.

 

You're only looking at one year's worth of data....and even then, his second half was a lot better than his first half, even with a bad September: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...mp;t=b#all_half

Edited February 2, 2018 by soxfan2014

[greg775]

You're only looking at one year's worth of data....and even then, his second half was a lot better than his first half, even with a bad September: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...mp;t=b#all_half

I'm just trying to use the same standards regarding Avi and Abreu as Hosmer and Manny. For instance except for Hosmer's defense, Abreu looks like the better employee. Avi and Manny are about the same age and one is considered a god and the other a blah.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm just trying to use the same standards regarding Avi and Abreu as Hosmer and Manny. For instance except for Hosmer's defense, Abreu looks like the better employee. Avi and Manny are about the same age and one is considered a god and the other a blah.

 

Not a single person on this site would argue Hosmer being better than Abreu so idk where that's coming from.

[Eminor3rd]

What about Manny Machado's stat line last season makes him worth all the money he's going to get? If he has an off year it should be interesting to see the excuses of fans still wanting to pay him 30 mill a year. Last year .259, 33, 95 RBI. His OBP .310 with 50 walks against 115 strikeouts. Since everybody's talking Avi's BABIP, what does Manny's suggest for this year? Decline? Or he's going to be great?

 

I mean I like Machado's traditional stats OK enough. .259 is blah. But at a similar age, Avi hit .330 with 18 HRs, 80 RBI. 33 walks, 111 Ks. Avi's BA was much higher, Manny's HRs and RBIs greater. Manny had more than 100 more at bats.

 

Hosmer, who is considered a god and about to make 20 mill or more year hit .318, 25 HRS, 94 RBI, 66 BBs, 104 Ks. He's about to enter his age 28 season and wants 8 years.

 

Abreu hit .304 with 33 HR, 102 RBI and .354 OBP with 35 walks, 115 Ks and he's entering age 31 season. Arguably he's better production than Hosmer only 3 years older.

 

Top two reasons:

 

Unlike Avi, who is a bad defender in an outfield corner, Machado is an elite defender at third base and is now moving back to shortstop.

 

Unlike Avi, who has one good year against four awful years, Machado has one mediocre year against three great years (and a good but injury-shortened fourth).

[WBWSF]

Hate to bust everybodys bubble but I talked to Scott Merkin at Soxfest. He claims as long as Machado wants to play shortstop the White Sox as of now have no interest in him. The White Sox like Tim Anderson at shortstop. So unless Machado wants to play 3rd base the White Sox have no interest in signing him to play shortstop..

[DirtySox]

Hate to bust everybodys bubble but I talked to Scott Merkin at Soxfest. He claims as long as Machado wants to play shortstop the White Sox as of now have no interest in him. The White Sox like Tim Anderson at shortstop. So unless Machado wants to play 3rd base the White Sox have no interest in signing him to play shortstop..

 

Lol.

[Bob Sacamano]

If hes offered the most money fo play 3B for a team, he will play 3B. Bet Greg's house on it.

Edited February 2, 2018 by soxfan2014

[Knackattack]

Hate to bust everybodys bubble but I talked to Scott Merkin at Soxfest. He claims as long as Machado wants to play shortstop the White Sox as of now have no interest in him. The White Sox like Tim Anderson at shortstop. So unless Machado wants to play 3rd base the White Sox have no interest in signing him to play shortstop..

Maybe I'm a fool, but personally, I don't value a single word from Scott Merkin's mouth about anything the Sox are doing