Star Wars: The Last Jedi *SPOILERS* Thread

[TaylorStSox]

I can't wait to watch Red Letter Media destroy this one. They're much better at articulating why dumb movies are dumb.

Edited December 19, 2017 by TaylorStSox

[TaylorStSox]

In ROTJ Luke gets shot by a nobody on the Sciff, and also gets tied up by a non-force user in Boba Fett.

 

But keep being angry.

Context. If it happened right after he killed Palpatine I would have found it odd as well.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Yet he gets put in a headlock by an imperial guard. The movie is so dumb and inconsistent.

 

Come on.

 

If it was realistic, Kylo would just force-choke their brains to insta-kill them. Or Rey would force-push their arms out of the way while she swung her light sabre so they couldn't defend.

 

Or no one would bother fighting Jedi/Sith in melee combat because they'd just use super space shotguns and super space bazookas that couldn't be deflected unlike the PEW PEW single-fire guns.

[Chicago White Sox]

Sort of on the same thread as this, something caught my attention during Luke’s version of the flashback. He said when he woke up that Kylo had taken some apprentices with him, and killed the rest. So where are the force users that he took with him?

I’m assuming those are the Knights of Ren and I thought they showed them briefly in the TFA during a dream or flashback sequence. If so, are they still alive and where have they been? Maybe they’ll make an appearance in the final movie.

[Soxbadger]

He stopped a f***ing blaster bolt mid air and held it there for minutes the first time we saw him. Both Luke and Snoke said he's the most powerful force user they've seen. Yet he gets put in a headlock by an imperial guard. The movie is so dumb and inconsistent.

 

I dont recall Luke or Snoke ever saying "Ren is the most powerful force user." I recall Luke saying something to the effect of "The last time I saw power like this I didnt fear it." But I didnt view that as saying Ren was more powerful than Vader, just that Kylo possessed an intense power for a padawan. Snoke's comment didnt clearly say Ren was the most powerful user. I believe he compared Ren to Vader and what he thought he could be.

 

Ren stopped a blaster in mid air, so what? Qui Gon and Obi wan deflect blasters from droids like its nothing. The blaster looked cool, but I cant recall any scene that included a Jedi/Sith where blocking a single blaster would have made a difference. No one is denying that Ren possesses raw power, but has he even won a single light saber battle?

 

I think people forget that there were a massive amount of powerful Jedi in episodes 1-3. Windu, Obi Wan, Yoda, Anakin were at the top of order. Ren has done a few tricks, but has yet to successfully best any force user in single combat.

[Balta1701]

I’m assuming those are the Knights of Ren and I thought they showed them briefly in the TFA during a dream or flashback sequence. If so, are they still alive and where have they been? Maybe they’ll make an appearance in the final movie.

I was assuming "Knights of Ren" was the long lived group that he had joined a-la when Vader joined the "Sith".

[Chicago White Sox]

I was assuming "Knights of Ren" was the long lived group that he had joined a-la when Vader joined the "Sith".

I always assumed it was his group, but honestly I don’t know. Here’s a quote that supports this idea:

 

Even you, master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test.

Supreme Leader Snoke, to Kylo Ren

 

Here’s a theory on the Knights of Ren being those same boys.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.co...dents-jedi-kylo

Edited December 19, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

I enjoyed the movie for the most part, but have also given up on the idea that Star Wars will ever be special again. They’ll continue to recycle the same story lines over & over (this started with episode 6), they’ll continue double-down on the cheese & tone-breaking humor, they’ll continue to ignore character development for all but a handful of characters, and they’ll continue to make lore & background info generally less important. These movies have become Disney family-fun popcorn films and that’s fine. I think people need to accept that the magic from A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back is pretty much gone and not to take it personally. These are at least far better movies than Lucas’ new trilogy. Can’t really expect much more from Disney TBH.

[southsider2k5]

I enjoyed the movie for the most part, but have also given up on the idea that Star Wars will ever be special again. They'll continue to recycle the same story lines over & over (this started with episode 6), they'll continue double-down on the cheese & tone-breaking humor, they'll continue to ignore character development for all but a handful of characters, and they'll continue to make lore & background info generally less important. These movies have become Disney family-fun popcorn films and that's fine. I think people need to accept that the magic from A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back is pretty much gone and not to take it personally. These are at least far better movies than Lucas' new trilogy. Can't really expect much more from Disney TBH.

 

To be fair, those were generation changing movies. No one has made a Star Wars impact of a movie since Star Wars. A few might have visited the neighborhood, but none of moved in. These movies were to movies what The Beatles are to music.

[whitesoxfan99]

I enjoyed the movie for the most part, but have also given up on the idea that Star Wars will ever be special again. They’ll continue to recycle the same story lines over & over (this started with episode 6), they’ll continue double-down on the cheese & tone-breaking humor, they’ll continue to ignore character development for all but a handful of characters, and they’ll continue to make lore & background info generally less important. These movies have become Disney family-fun popcorn films and that’s fine. I think people need to accept that the magic from A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back is pretty much gone and not to take it personally. These are at least far better movies than Lucas’ new trilogy. Can’t really expect much more from Disney TBH.

The thing is the lore and background info really wasn't a big part of the original trilogy either. Those movies were fantastic movies (among my all time favorites) that were incredibly different than what had came before but it isn't like the world building is anything that special in those movies. Instead, you had 30 years of people other than George Lucas world building and providing background info on those characters. I agree these won't have the same magic but that is always going to be the case when you have a long movie series.

[whitesoxfan99]

To be fair, those were generation changing movies. No one has made a Star Wars impact of a movie since Star Wars. A few might have visited the neighborhood, but none of moved in. These movies were to movies what The Beatles are to music.

 

It is pretty much impossible at this point for anything to have that impact unless there is an entirely new technology that comes along that completely changes the way we watch movies.

[Kyyle23]

The thing is the lore and background info really wasn't a big part of the original trilogy either. Those movies were fantastic movies (among my all time favorites) that were incredibly different than what had came before but it isn't like the world building is anything that special in those movies. Instead, you had 30 years of people other than George Lucas world building and providing background info on those characters. I agree these won't have the same magic but that is always going to be the case when you have a long movie series.

 

I think a big problem is that 30 year gap of (what is now) non canon world building that people really liked. I think scrapping most of it was a mistake, there were very good stories in the books and they did justice to the characters as they grew older.

 

Now we have a new canon that has elements of the books, but only fragments like Ben Solo going bad.

[whitesoxfan99]

I think a big problem is that 30 year gap of (what is now) non canon world building that people really liked. I think scrapping most of it was a mistake, there were very good stories in the books and they did justice to the characters as they grew older.

 

Now we have a new canon that has elements of the books, but only fragments like Ben Solo going bad.

 

There was a lot of really really really terrible stories too. There was some great stuff but also some unbelievably s***ty stuff as well. That makes it really tough to sort through what should be included and what shouldn't. If they want to keep making movies they needed to throw out that stuff.

[Kyyle23]

There was a lot of really really really terrible stories too. There was some great stuff but also some unbelievably s***ty stuff as well. That makes it really tough to sort through what should be included and what shouldn't. If they want to keep making movies they needed to throw out that stuff.

 

But therein lies the problem, they didn’t throw it out. They kept stuff they liked and then created a problem of story expectations

[whitesoxfan99]

But therein lies the problem, they didn’t throw it out. They kept stuff they liked and then created a problem of story expectations

 

They did throw it all out as canon though. The only things that were created pre-2014 considered canon are the six saga films, the Clone Wars movie and TV series and a Darth Maul comic.

[Chicago White Sox]

To be fair, those were generation changing movies. No one has made a Star Wars impact of a movie since Star Wars. A few might have visited the neighborhood, but none of moved in. These movies were to movies what The Beatles are to music.

No doubt that’s a big part of the magic. Clearly they were movies ahead of their time. But A New Hope just felt like this epic adventure in a vast new world filled with all sorts of mysteries and interesting characters. The problem I have with this new trilogy (so far) is its the same basic formula but without bringing anything fresh to the table. They have this vast universe of unlimited potential and they’re simply going to recycle Stormtroopers, Death Stars, & evil Sith Lords again & again. Take us someplace new with the story for f***’s sake. And invest just a little bit of time into making these worlds feel like actual places and not just the “salt mining” planet. These never have to be the deepest of movies with overly complicated plot structures, but try to wow us with fresh new stories, characters, & worlds that let our imaginations run wild like they did as kids. Maybe the next trilogy will be able to succeed in that regard by not having any tie-ins to the existing films.

[Kyyle23]

They did throw it all out as canon though. The only things that were created pre-2014 considered canon are the six saga films, the Clone Wars movie and TV series and a Darth Maul comic.

 

No, there are a bunch of books written by Timothy Zahn that are pretty close to the Ben Solo arc. That’s why me and quin were calling Rey “Jaina Solo”. The destruction of Luke’s Jedi training temple is on point with that

 

TBH I wouldn’t mind if they went back and covered Luke in between RotJ and TFA. They could have brought in Mara Jade Skywalker

[Brian]

Now things are getting too nerdy in here, even for me.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Brian

[Quin]

No, there are a bunch of books written by Timothy Zahn that are pretty close to the Ben Solo arc. That’s why me and quin were calling Rey “Jaina Solo”. The destruction of Luke’s Jedi training temple is on point with that

 

TBH I wouldn’t mind if they went back and covered Luke in between RotJ and TFA. They could have brought in Mara Jade Skywalker

 

The fact that Mara Jade is pretty impossible at this point makes me sad.

 

Thrawn came back, Revan can whenever they want, Jade is gone :/

[southsider2k5]

No doubt that's a big part of the magic. Clearly they were movies ahead of their time. But A New Hope just felt like this epic adventure in a vast new world filled with all sorts of mysteries and interesting characters. The problem I have with this new trilogy (so far) is its the same basic formula but without bringing anything fresh to the table. They have this vast universe of unlimited potential and they're simply going to recycle Stormtroopers, Death Stars, & evil Sith Lords again & again. Take us someplace new with the story for f***'s sake. And invest just a little bit of time into making these worlds feel like actual places and not just the "salt mining" planet. These never have to be the deepest of movies with overly complicated plot structures, but try to wow us with fresh new stories, characters, & worlds that let our imaginations run wild like they did as kids. Maybe the next trilogy will be able to succeed in that regard by not having any tie-ins to the existing films.

 

You do that, and you get a meltdown from the traditionalists.

[TaylorStSox]

 

RedLetterMedia Review

[BigSqwert]

RedLetterMedia Review

 

You cherry-picked one bad review out of the overwhelming majority of positive reviews.

[TaylorStSox]

I watch every RedLetterMedia review. They're great. Their reviews of the prequels are legendary.

 

Have we hit the point that people are getting mad at eachother for not liking Star Wars?

Edited December 20, 2017 by TaylorStSox

[Kyyle23]

I watch every RedLetterMedia review. They're great. Their reviews of the prequels are legendary.

 

Have we hit the point that people are getting mad at eachother for not liking Star Wars?

 

I’m not mad at you for not liking the movie, I get it. I see your points and just disagree with some. I just feel like you are trying to convince me I don’t like it either.

[TaylorStSox]

I’m not mad at you for not liking the movie, I get it. I see your points and just disagree with some. I just feel like you are trying to convince me I don’t like it either.

 

I'm just explaining why I think it's a trainwreck, just like people are explaining the opposite.

 

I posted the RedLetterMedia review because their reviews of the prequels are pretty much the gold standard for Star Wars reviews. They liked it a lot more than I imagined. It's really not that negative, all things considered. I also think they're far more independent than most reviewers. When a movie sits at 93% from critics and 55% from the audience, something is amiss. I'd be willing to bet Disney bought some positive reviews and bullied positive reviews. It's not like people want to dislike the film. I liked TFA and absolutely loved Rogue One.