Star Wars: The Last Jedi *SPOILERS* Thread

[RockRaines]

Everyone should re-watch the first 10 minutes of TFA and the first 10 minutes of TLJ. In TFA the First Order was ruthless and menacing. Poe made a quip that worked. Kyle Ren displayed his power by stopping the blaster shot with the f***ing force.

 

On the other hand, TJL ruined the immersion with the dumbass exchange. It made the first order look totally inept. I knew right from that first scene that "this wasn't going to go as I expected."

Agreed. I think I said out loud that it was weird. There was too much comedy for a film that should have been much darker.

[ptatc]

I think you're referring to Lucas trying to write dialog that seemed over the top and philosophical between Anakin and Padme when it just came off as garbage. We didn't have to deal with that in this one at least.

Yeah, I guess. They just had a very different feel from the action from the last two.

 

Of course, it could be just me.

[Steve9347]

Talk about revisionist history. TFA received a ton of crap when it opened, and still does today.

Audience score is at 88% vs Last Jedi at 56%.

[Reddy]

Audience score is at 88% vs Last Jedi at 56%.

Even if it was a remake, TFA was a well done remake. I loved it.

 

This was.... just messy. And I don't have near the desire to see it multiple times like I did TFA.

[Steve9347]

Everyone should re-watch the first 10 minutes of TFA and the first 10 minutes of TLJ. In TFA the First Order was ruthless and menacing. Poe made a quip that worked. Kyle Ren displayed his power by stopping the blaster shot with the f***ing force.

 

On the other hand, TJL ruined the immersion with the dumbass exchange. It made the first order look totally inept. I knew right from that first scene that "this wasn't going to go as I expected."

As stated previoulsy, I rewatched TFA this weekend just to make sure I wasn't being too critical. It was so much better in all aspects.

[Quin]

Rogue One seems even better in retrospect. They should have kept the main characters to Jin, Cassian, Chirut and K2SO, but at least it had a coherent story and consistent tone. Edwards had a clear vision and stuck to it.

 

Oh, and the comic relief actually worked and didn't ruin the immersion.

 

Chirrut and K2SO we're infinitely funnier than any TLJ character while still being serious and relatable.

 

 

Everyone should re-watch the first 10 minutes of TFA and the first 10 minutes of TLJ. In TFA the First Order was ruthless and menacing. Poe made a quip that worked. Kyle Ren displayed his power by stopping the blaster shot with the f***ing force.

 

On the other hand, TJL ruined the immersion with the dumbass exchange. It made the first order look totally inept. I knew right from that first scene that "this wasn't going to go as I expected."

 

Building off this - I had no issue with Poe trolling Hux. Fit his character. Had issues with Hux being so easily duped.

 

[Steve9347]

Building off this - I had no issue with Poe trolling Hux. Fit his character. Had issues with Hux being so easily duped.

Eh, Poe trolling Hux acting like he was using a telephone service in the year 1996 was rather stupid.

[TaylorStSox]

K2SO was funny because the dry humor fits since he's a robot.

 

I have no problem with Poe making one liners, but as you guys mentioned, it's not funny when it ruins other characters and the phone bit isn't consistent with Star Wars.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I agree. Although I also don't really believe Kylo. I think he was just trying to hurt her and get to her to let go of any loyalty she has to the Jedi history.

Kylo didn't tell her her parents were nobody. She herself said that to begin with. She knew. "They were nobody". I don't think with that context it makes sense that he was lying to her.

[Soxbadger]

I think that a lot of the problems people have with this movie is that it ultimately is moving away from black/white to grey. For example, the casino scene. The purpose (besides for the Rose/Finn story line which may impact Rey in the future) was to show that the people who sold weapons to the New Order, sold weapons to the Resistance.

 

Personally I think the movie was fine. I think that if I was 5 I wouldnt have such a critical take on things like "Why was Snoke not developed", when in reality the Emperor had almost 0 backstory in 4-6.

 

I think what the movie did best, was give actual moments where the viewer was not 100% sure what the outcome was going to be.

 

And I think that the whole "First Order is stupid" is basically no different than the Empire. Snoke was the brains, the rest of them are just supposed to be idiot yes men. What has Hux done to show that he has any sort of leadership capabilities? Now that Snoke is gone, Kylo is the new supreme leader. He is basically a teenager with no real leadership experience.

 

Either way I thought the movie was entertaining. I think that since some people have had 30+ ears to dissect every aspect of this world, that expectations were immensely high and that there was no way to get away with writing a pseudo Empire. So instead it gave us a different path, one where the apprentice turns on the master much earlier but isnt redeemed. One where the world is less black and white and more complicated.

 

Right now you are looking at a final confrontation presumably of Kylo v Rey. I think this is leading to the idea that the force is beyond the path of the Jedi or the Sith. And that is what Rey represents, which is why her attunement to the force is different.

[Kyyle23]

I think that a lot of the problems people have with this movie is that it ultimately is moving away from black/white to grey. For example, the casino scene. The purpose (besides for the Rose/Finn story line which may impact Rey in the future) was to show that the people who sold weapons to the New Order, sold weapons to the Resistance.

 

Personally I think the movie was fine. I think that if I was 5 I wouldnt have such a critical take on things like "Why was Snoke not developed", when in reality the Emperor had almost 0 backstory in 4-6.

 

I think what the movie did best, was give actual moments where the viewer was not 100% sure what the outcome was going to be.

 

And I think that the whole "First Order is stupid" is basically no different than the Empire. Snoke was the brains, the rest of them are just supposed to be idiot yes men. What has Hux done to show that he has any sort of leadership capabilities? Now that Snoke is gone, Kylo is the new supreme leader. He is basically a teenager with no real leadership experience.

 

Either way I thought the movie was entertaining. I think that since some people have had 30+ ears to dissect every aspect of this world, that expectations were immensely high and that there was no way to get away with writing a pseudo Empire. So instead it gave us a different path, one where the apprentice turns on the master much earlier but isnt redeemed. One where the world is less black and white and more complicated.

 

Right now you are looking at a final confrontation presumably of Kylo v Rey. I think this is leading to the idea that the force is beyond the path of the Jedi or the Sith. And that is what Rey represents, which is why her attunement to the force is different.

 

 

I can get behind this. I guess it will be interesting to see Kylo Rens path now that he doesnt have Snoke guiding him and controlling him.

 

My quarrels with the movie rest largely with a lot of the throwaway stuff they put in. Finn and Rose, Maz Kanata, Captain Phasma, Holdo's secret escape plan that she had to hide from the 50 people left alive. The script should have and could have been a lot tighter.

 

That being said, i didnt hate it. I didnt love it, but i did like it.

[Soxbadger]

I can get behind this. I guess it will be interesting to see Kylo Rens path now that he doesnt have Snoke guiding him and controlling him.

 

My quarrels with the movie rest largely with a lot of the throwaway stuff they threw in. Finn and Rose, Maz Kanata, Captain Phasma, Holdo's secret escape plan that she had to hide from the 50 people left alive. The script should have and could have been a lot tighter.

 

That being said, i didnt hate it. I didnt love it, but i did like it.

 

So my theory on Finn/Rose is this. When Rey returns, she looks to Finn, she sees him with Rose. You could see that there was some conflict in Rey about this. If you look back to the Vader story line, one of his main inner conflicts was his love for Padme and the fact that as a Jedi he couldnt. Will they develop it? Who knows.

 

Some of the "cameo" of character scenes were somewhat unnecessary. Kanata is fine, Phamsa was just for a Finn battle. The secret plan was kind of odd, unless there is some sort of idea that maybe someone is spying on them.

[CrimsonWeltall]

The secret plan was kind of odd, unless there is some sort of idea that maybe someone is spying on them.

 

Until they revealed that the First Order had a magical computer that can track where any ship goes even after light speed (wtf?), I thought Hux had a spy on the Resistance ship who was signaling their location.

 

Holdo, who was bein all shady and telling everyone that the plan was to have no plan, was my initial suspect.

[Kyyle23]

So my theory on Finn/Rose is this. When Rey returns, she looks to Finn, she sees him with Rose. You could see that there was some conflict in Rey about this. If you look back to the Vader story line, one of his main inner conflicts was his love for Padme and the fact that as a Jedi he couldnt. Will they develop it? Who knows.

 

Some of the "cameo" of character scenes were somewhat unnecessary. Kanata is fine, Phamsa was just for a Finn battle. The secret plan was kind of odd, unless there is some sort of idea that maybe someone is spying on them.

 

I feel like Rey meeting Poe at the end was foreshadowing a relationship between them.

[TaylorStSox]

I think that a lot of the problems people have with this movie is that it ultimately is moving away from black/white to grey. For example, the casino scene. The purpose (besides for the Rose/Finn story line which may impact Rey in the future) was to show that the people who sold weapons to the New Order, sold weapons to the Resistance.

 

Personally I think the movie was fine. I think that if I was 5 I wouldnt have such a critical take on things like "Why was Snoke not developed", when in reality the Emperor had almost 0 backstory in 4-6.

 

I think what the movie did best, was give actual moments where the viewer was not 100% sure what the outcome was going to be.

 

And I think that the whole "First Order is stupid" is basically no different than the Empire. Snoke was the brains, the rest of them are just supposed to be idiot yes men. What has Hux done to show that he has any sort of leadership capabilities? Now that Snoke is gone, Kylo is the new supreme leader. He is basically a teenager with no real leadership experience.

 

Either way I thought the movie was entertaining. I think that since some people have had 30+ ears to dissect every aspect of this world, that expectations were immensely high and that there was no way to get away with writing a pseudo Empire. So instead it gave us a different path, one where the apprentice turns on the master much earlier but isnt redeemed. One where the world is less black and white and more complicated.

 

Right now you are looking at a final confrontation presumably of Kylo v Rey. I think this is leading to the idea that the force is beyond the path of the Jedi or the Sith. And that is what Rey represents, which is why her attunement to the force is different.

There are a ton of well-made/good movies geared towards children. That's a terrible excuse to give a film.

 

The movie isn't bad because it's "gray." It's not bad because Snoke dies, Luke dies, Rey's lineage is a red herring etc. It's bad because the plot sucks. The plot revolves around a 24 hour slow speed chase. Literally. Think about that. It's a dumb movie.

[whitesoxfan99]

Until they revealed that the First Order had a magical computer that can track where any ship goes even after light speed (wtf?), I thought Hux had a spy on the Resistance ship who was signaling their location.

 

Holdo, who was bein all shady and telling everyone that the plan was to have no plan, was my initial suspect.

 

The hyperspace tracking was actually set up in Rogue One. That is one of the projects Jynn reads off when they are looking for the Death Star file.

[Soxbadger]

There are a ton of well-made/good movies geared towards children. That's a terrible excuse to give a film.

 

The movie isn't bad because it's "gray." It's not bad because Snoke dies, Luke dies, Rey's lineage is a red herring etc. It's bad because the plot sucks. The plot revolves around a 24 hour slow speed chase. Literally. Think about that. It's a dumb movie.

 

Jean Paul Satre's "No Exit" is an entire book about being in a room. If you think the Plot was a "slow speed chase", then maybe you are watching the movie too literally?

 

Because my interpretation of the plot was the cracking of the old order of the Jedi/Sith and the rise of something different. Which is why the director tries to beat that idea over the viewers head in the scenes where Luke calls out the Jedi for their failing, in the scene where Luke fails as a master and in the scene where Yoda explains to Luke that failure is something to learn from.

 

If you think that is bad plot, so be it. If you think its a dumb movie, you are completely entitled to your opinion.

[TaylorStSox]

Jean Paul Satre's "No Exit" is an entire book about being in a room. If you think the Plot was a "slow speed chase", then maybe you are watching the movie too literally?

 

Because my interpretation of the plot was the cracking of the old order of the Jedi/Sith and the rise of something different. Which is why the director tries to beat that idea over the viewers head in the scenes where Luke calls out the Jedi for their failing, in the scene where Luke fails as a master and in the scene where Yoda explains to Luke that failure is something to learn from.

 

If you think that is bad plot, so be it. If you think its a dumb movie, you are completely entitled to your opinion.

You're confusing plot and theme. They're different things. I was fine with the theme.

[Balta1701]

Jean Paul Satre's "No Exit" is an entire book about being in a room. If you think the Plot was a "slow speed chase", then maybe you are watching the movie too literally?

 

Because my interpretation of the plot was the cracking of the old order of the Jedi/Sith and the rise of something different. Which is why the director tries to beat that idea over the viewers head in the scenes where Luke calls out the Jedi for their failing, in the scene where Luke fails as a master and in the scene where Yoda explains to Luke that failure is something to learn from.

 

If you think that is bad plot, so be it. If you think its a dumb movie, you are completely entitled to your opinion.

And I was willing to buy the end of the Jedi as a lesson for their mistakes and the starting of something else. It would be an acknowledgment that the Jedi rules themselves led to Anakin's downfall and Ben's downfall. Then we got to "and I am not the last Jedi".

[Soxbadger]

You're confusing plot and theme. They're different things. I was fine with the theme.

 

I meant that the plot, Rey going to Luke, etc, was used to advance the theme. The slow speed chase was just the immediate danger that necessitated the need for the rest of the action. If not for the "slow speed chase" there is no need for most of the other actions that occur, the only part of the story that exists independent of that is Rey/Luke. But Luke's ending, naturally progressed from the fact that the Resistance werent going to get away.

[RockRaines]

They werent actually moving "slow" but it was kind of comedic that this entire star destroyer fleet couldnt do anything to those 3 tiny ships.

[Soxbadger]

And I was willing to buy the end of the Jedi as a lesson for their mistakes and the starting of something else. It would be an acknowledgment that the Jedi rules themselves led to Anakin's downfall and Ben's downfall. Then we got to "and I am not the last Jedi".

 

Yeah Im not sure if Rey will be an actual Jedi or something else. But I think the idea that "she could be something else" is what makes these episodes different. Snoke didnt really fit into a Sith/Jedi box either, maybe Rey will take some of the training. But its pretty clear that episode 9 isnt ending with Luke building a Jedi temple and a grand age of the Jedi. At best there is maybe 1 left and Rey received less formal training than Luke, less than even Kylo it would appear.

 

Part of the problem is that until you see 9, there is no way to see whether 8 set it up well or not. I never was alive when Empire existed and Return did not. So its hard to imagine how I would have felt at the end of Empire and not being able to immediately see the conclusion.

 

 

They werent actually moving "slow" but it was kind of comedic that this entire star destroyer fleet couldnt do anything to those 3 tiny ships.

 

I guess all the years of watching Whale Wars primed me for how that could work. Big ship is too slow to catch up, small ship isnt fast enough to completely get away.

[Kyyle23]

And I was willing to buy the end of the Jedi as a lesson for their mistakes and the starting of something else. It would be an acknowledgment that the Jedi rules themselves led to Anakin's downfall and Ben's downfall. Then we got to "and I am not the last Jedi".

 

Sort of on the same thread as this, something caught my attention during Luke’s version of the flashback. He said when he woke up that Kylo had taken some apprentices with him, and killed the rest. So where are the force users that he took with him?

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Yeah Im not sure if Rey will be an actual Jedi or something else. But I think the idea that "she could be something else" is what makes these episodes different. Snoke didnt really fit into a Sith/Jedi box either, maybe Rey will take some of the training.

So you're saying it would have helped a lot to get the tiniest bit of backstory of Snoke and the Knights of Ren?

 

We didn't have much backstory of the emperor and it worked because the Emperor stayed in the shadows through 4-5. He was an outside presence, only referred to in #4 and only hologram once in #5. Maybe if Snoke had been more of a shadowy presence I could have bought that, but they threw him out there as a beat up, ultra powerful force user who somehow had already gotten access to Ben Solo while he was at Luke's school. Just was too many holes in that part of the story.

 

Anyway, if "She could be something else" then stop fighting against that. She had the texts. Luke calls her a Jedi. Go with it!

[Balta1701]

Sort of on the same thread as this, something caught my attention during Luke’s version of the flashback. He said when he woke up that Kylo had taken some apprentices with him, and killed the rest. So where are the force users that he took with him?

I didn't catch that but I assumed the First Order guards that they killed in the lightsabre duel had some training.