lostfan Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Reddy said: Okay. Can you point out how my candidate is establishment, or how I sell her at the doors is problematic/establishment At some point in 2016 I decided to just tune everyone who overuses the word "establishment" because I found that, by and large, they really have nothing of value to say, but they really, really, really want you to hear their opinions and take them seriously. The effect of this has been that I engage in a lot fewer circular discussions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Reddy said: 10/10 would get crushed in the Midwest Uhhhh, while I was still at Mizzou my friends and I would play League a lot. Like, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: Uhhhh, while I was still at Mizzou my friends and I would play League a lot. Like, what? How many of them voted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Reddy said: How many of them voted? The ones I played with? All of them except one. Three of them were politically active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: The ones I played with? All of them except one. Three of them were politically active. You must understand my point. The demographic that wants to hear that their 29 year old candidate is playing video games 22 days out from the election is not the demographic that votes. Edited October 15, 2018 by Reddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, Reddy said: You must understand my point. The demographic that wants to hear that their 29 year old candidate is playing video games 22 days out from the election is not the demographic that votes. I feel like your point was that Midwesterners don't like video games or something. Hell, it might be nice for younger voters to have someone to ID with. Like, the equivalent of this would be "Hillary doesn't know what boba tea is and thinks its called 'chewy tea.' How the hell could I vote for someone so out of touch and pander-y?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: I feel like your point was that Midwesterners don't like video games or something. Hell, it might be nice for younger voters to have someone to ID with. Like, the equivalent of this would be "Hillary doesn't know what boba tea is and thinks its called 'chewy tea.' How the hell could I vote for someone so out of touch and pander-y?" The point was that 1) the people that would appeal to don't vote and 2) we're having enough problems here electing a 29 year old without her tweeting about playing video games. It would literally be game over in rural Iowa. Edited October 15, 2018 by Reddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Trump can put 4000 lies out there in 2 years and one candidate who's actually authentic or honest...lets her guard down a bit that she occasionally plays computer games to relax is all of a sudden "done" in Iowa for actually being a genuine, REAL person? Isn't that what everyone admires (supposedly) about Trump, his "calling it like it is"-ness? Isn't that why Beto O'Rourke is quickly becoming the Hispanic Obama? How many times, by the way, was Obama criticized for golfing or filling our NCAA Tourney Brackets? It's like the Dems can't take ONE wrong step, but you can be Duncan Hunter in CA and basically break election laws and STILL win? I have a feeling that Grassley or King wouldn't know anything beyond the Atari 2600, yet Iowans keep voting for them. It's nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: What you posted is nonsense first of all CNN polls are not well respected because they fudge with the numbers. Two, national polls while interesting are not necessarily applicable to local races. They also poll everyone not just likely voters they also adjust the results according to ethnicity. You can see their polls on realclearpolitics they are always skewed regardless of the what they are polling. If you want to get a general idea of how a race is going realclearpolitcs does sort of a graph of where all the individual races stand and the trendline.https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/house/2018_elections_house_map.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/14/opinions/dem-voting-excitement-opinion-obeidallah/index.html That's like me saying anything from the Wall Street Journal or Forbes is nonsense. If Trump is so great for their ratings, why would they want to have "skewed" polls that result in an environment where he was politically "hemmed in" (assuming the House goes DEM) by leading the country to believe a Blue Wave was coming? As a Republican, you don't believe anything CNN puts out there, right? They're only making CONSERVATIVES want to vote more with their "fake" polls, true or false? Wouldn't it be better to SCARE THE HELL OUT OF LIBERALS by creating/crafting polls that had Trump's party leading by 3-5%, causing EVERY Democrat to be motivated to get out and vote, instead of a mere 36-37% of the eligible electorate, which is more typical compared to around 55% for presidential contests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I'm sure now that Warren has actually confirmed genetic American Indian ancestry, the years-long racist attacks against her from conservatives over this issue will end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Reddy said: The point was that 1) the people that would appeal to don't vote and 2) we're having enough problems here electing a 29 year old without her tweeting about playing video games. It would literally be game over in rural Iowa. Well, she isn't running in rural Iowa. So what does it matter? Are you honestly mad that she tweeted about playing a video game? This can't be real. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: I'm sure now that Warren has actually confirmed genetic American Indian ancestry, the years-long racist attacks against her from conservatives over this issue will end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: Contrast the fabricated conservative conspiracy that Warren lied about her ancestry (she didn't) in order to benefit from affirmative action programs (again a thing she didn't do) with Republican House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy's family actually financially benefiting from programs based on dubious ancestry claims. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s family benefited from U.S. program for minorities based on disputed ancestry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I see conservatives on Twitter are all shifting the goalposts now on Warren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 21 hours ago, Reddy said: Okay. Can you point out how my candidate is establishment, or how I sell her at the doors is problematic/establishment Well, since you asked: Your candidate does not support Medicare for all, the most popular policy position in the country right now, instead talking nebulously about "expanding on the ACA". Her biggest platform point on economics is about infrastructure, and her platform includes ideas like deregulation to "help small businesses", which will almost assuredly end up helping large corporations, helping "family farms", which ultimately always just ends up helping corporate farms, and the ever nebulous "make college more affordable", which is clearly not prioritized and can be conveniently forgotten after the election. There is nothing in her platform about police or prison reform. The one point she is actually good on, fighting for workers' rights, will be washed away by the rest, because the businesses that can do the things she wants for workers won't exist if her other policy positions get enacted. That's how her platform is establishment. It projects the image of needed change without ever actually going far enough to create it. Your sales pitch is as establishment as it comes. You're not actually listening to your constituents' concerns and telling them how your candidate's policy positions align with their concerns, you're selling them a feel good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 8 hours ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/14/opinions/dem-voting-excitement-opinion-obeidallah/index.html That's like me saying anything from the Wall Street Journal or Forbes is nonsense. If Trump is so great for their ratings, why would they want to have "skewed" polls that result in an environment where he was politically "hemmed in" (assuming the House goes DEM) by leading the country to believe a Blue Wave was coming? As a Republican, you don't believe anything CNN puts out there, right? They're only making CONSERVATIVES want to vote more with their "fake" polls, true or false? Wouldn't it be better to SCARE THE HELL OUT OF LIBERALS by creating/crafting polls that had Trump's party leading by 3-5%, causing EVERY Democrat to be motivated to get out and vote, instead of a mere 36-37% of the eligible electorate, which is more typical compared to around 55% for presidential contests? I have no idea of their motivations but I was watching a segment on MSNBC and they were interviewing Steve (their polling expert) not-going to spell his last name and he basically said the same thing CNN polls are skewed by their questionable methodology wait to see if another confirms the result before getting excited. So it's not a left-right thing at least it shouldn't be. As far as the Blue Wave I don't think it's a question of whether the democrats get seats just how many and I'd rather figure that out with accurate information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BigSqwert said: I see conservatives on Twitter are all shifting the goalposts now on Warren. For me not at all just confirmation on how corrupt these programs are and the fact they should be done away with entirely. Edited October 15, 2018 by wrathofhahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: I have no idea of their motivations but I was watching a segment on MSNBC and they were interviewing Steve (their polling expert) not-going to spell his last name and he basically said the same thing CNN polls are skewed by their questionable methodology wait to see if another confirms the result before getting excited. So it's not a left-right thing at least it shouldn't be. As far as the Blue Wave I don't think it's a question of whether the democrats get seats just how many and I'd rather figure that out with accurate information The article claufield linked is an opinion piece on CNN, but it references polls by other companies, too. CNN's most recent polls seem to have been done by SSRS, who at least at 538 is rated "A-" in quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: For me not at all just confirmation on how corrupt these programs are and the fact they should be done away with entirely. Warren has not benefited from any "affirmative action" style programs. What about Warren believing her family history of having AmerIndian heritage and then it turning out to be correct confirms corruption to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, StrangeSox said: Warren has not benefited from any "affirmative action" style programs. What about Warren believing her family history of having AmerIndian heritage and then it turning out to be correct confirms corruption to you? It actually isn't correct she claimed that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American. That would make Warren 1/32nd Native American which is the same standard Native Americans use to establish ancestry. If her ancestor is 10 generations back, that means she's just 1/512th Native American or in other words 1/5 of one percent. Which wouldn't absolve her at all of misusing Indian status. In fact it only makes it more comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: It actually isn't correct she claimed that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American. That would make Warren 1/32nd Native American which is the same standard Native Americans use to establish ancestry. If her ancestor is 10 generations back, that means she's just 1/512th Native American or in other words 1/5 of one percent. Which wouldn't absolve her at all of misusing Indian status. In fact it only makes it more comical. She claimed, based on family history and tradition, to have AmerIndian background. She has that background. She's faced years of racist attacks from conservatives over it, and I'm sure Trump will continue to use his favorite slur to refer to her, but she has that background. She didn't "misuse" anything. She didn't claim this status to get into law school or to get hired by Harvard. She didn't campaign on this (it was brought up by her opponent and his staff). What's sad is how conservatives will just keep shifting goalposts. Now it's "oh she doesn't have enough AmeriIndian blood!" as proof of...something. e: these ancestry tests are only so accurate, so the actual reported range is 6-10 generations. Of course you went with the extreme end of the range for some reason. Warren's own claim is that her 5th generation grandmother was at least partially AmerIndian based on family history. She is as correct as these sorts of DNA tests could ever allow her to be. She isn't claiming tribal membership. She had a family legacy she talked about at various times decades ago. That legacy was a family tradition which was plausible but, who knows, maybe it would turn out wasn't accurate. But...it did. Her family tradition was correct. Edited October 15, 2018 by StrangeSox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I get why she did it, but this is why she should have just ignored it. No matter what she came back with it would never be enough for pizzagate people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 And we all know Trump will not donate $1M to her charity of choice for having the test completed, even though there is video of him saying just that. The ultimate grifter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, GoSox05 said: I get why she did it, but this is why she should have just ignored it. No matter what she came back with it would never be enough for pizzagate people. Like it or not, the Democrats are the reality-based group. Harvard was listing her with a slight native american background when she worked there, now we know that listing was accurate, and it's nice to continue being reality-based. He'll still denigrate her by calling her Pocahontas because he's a giant racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: I get why she did it, but this is why she should have just ignored it. No matter what she came back with it would never be enough for pizzagate people. The new standard is that Republicans won't have to open up their tax returns but Democrats have to open up their chromosomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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