2018 Democrats thread

[wrathofhahn]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

She claimed, based on family history and tradition, to have AmerIndian background. She has that background. She's faced years of racist attacks from conservatives over it, and I'm sure Trump will continue to use his favorite slur to refer to her, but she has that background.

She didn't "misuse" anything. She didn't claim this status to get into law school or to get hired by Harvard. She didn't campaign on this (it was brought up by her opponent and his staff). What's sad is how conservatives will just keep shifting goalposts. Now it's "oh she doesn't have enough AmeriIndian blood!" as proof of...something.

 

e: these ancestry tests are only so accurate, so the actual reported range is 6-10 generations. Of course you went with the extreme end of the range for some reason. Warren's own claim is that her 5th generation grandmother was at least partially AmerIndian based on family history. She is as correct as these sorts of DNA tests could ever allow her to be.

She isn't claiming tribal membership. She had a family legacy she talked about at various times decades ago. That legacy was a family tradition which was plausible but, who knows, maybe it would turn out wasn't accurate. But...it did. Her family tradition was correct. 

That was the story she concocted after being questioned by her claiming native status or more specifically a minority on her application of AALS and having Harvard list her as a "woman of color". These are legal definitions with very specific answers you can not claim yourself native with 1/512 of your DNA native. I actually got my test back recently and it said less then 1% of my DNA was Afrikan. Do I get to claim minority status too?

[StrangeSox]

24 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

That was the story she concocted after being questioned by her claiming native status or more specifically a minority on her application of AALS and having Harvard list her as a "woman of color". These are legal definitions with very specific answers you can not claim yourself native with 1/512 of your DNA native. I actually got my test back recently and it said less then 1% of my DNA was Afrikan. Do I get to claim minority status too?

This is not the thread for right wing conspiracy bullshit.

Warren was right about her family history both with what she was told growing up and, it turns out, what's in her DNA. She didn't gain any advantage from her correct belief that she has Amerindian heritage during any hiring process. Her being correct anyway still somehow shows corruption and why affirmative action programs need to be eliminated for some reason.

She was right. Years of racist right wing smears are wrong. 

 

 

tl;dr the linked tweet correctly predicting that right wingers won't actually care about the truth and will just shift their goal posts again and again

Edited October 15, 2018 by StrangeSox

[wrathofhahn]

13 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

This is not the thread for right wing conspiracy bullshit.

Warren was right about her family history both with what she was told growing up and, it turns out, what's in her DNA. She did gain any advantage from her correct belief that she has Amerindian heritage during any hiring process. Her being correct anyway still somehow shows corruption and why affirmative action programs need to be eliminated for some reason.

She was right. Years of racist right wing smears are wrong. 

 

 

tl;dr the linked tweet correctly predicting that right wingers won't actually care about the truth and will just shift their goal posts again and again

Show me the tribe that would recognize her Indian ancestry with 1/512 blood quantum or 1/5 of one percent Indian DNA. It's ridiculous and it's an obvious prediction to make from anyone who understands genealogy/

And her original ancestry claim was 1/32 per notorious right wing website slate: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/05/elizabeth-warren-says-shes-1-32-native-american-how-many-people-have-that-heritage.html

Somehow the argument changed from proving she lied on her form - she did, to claiming she was 1/32 Indian - still not enough to qualify under blood quantum laws, to now proving she has any blood at all and apparently 1/512 settles that requirement.

I honestly don't care other then the fact it's obvious she abused the system and claimed herself a minority. I just find it all funny I still do "you can't criticize me I'm 1/512 cherokee" ROFL

[BigSqwert]

Abused what system?

[StrangeSox]

12 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Show me the tribe that would recognize her Indian ancestry with 1/512 blood quantum or 1/5 of one percent Indian DNA. It's ridiculous and it's an obvious prediction to make from anyone who understands genealogy/

And her original ancestry claim was 1/32 per notorious right wing website slate: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/05/elizabeth-warren-says-shes-1-32-native-american-how-many-people-have-that-heritage.html

Somehow the argument changed from proving she lied on her form - she did, to claiming she was 1/32 Indian - still not enough to qualify under blood quantum laws, to now proving she has any blood at all and apparently 1/512 settles that requirement.

I honestly don't care other then the fact it's obvious she abused the system and claimed herself a minority. I just find it all funny I still do "you can't criticize me I'm 1/512 cherokee" ROFL

The test results have a range of possibilities. One end of that range overlaps with her family's oral tradition. This has been pointed out to you, but you're insisting on focusing on the extreme end of the range at 1/512. Even then, she still has actual ancestry. Years of racist smears were wrong. Here is the Boston Globe's explanation: "Bustamante calculated that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears in her family tree “in the range of 6-10 generations ago.” That timing fits Warren’s family lore, passed down during her Oklahoma upbringing, that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American."

She didn't abuse any system. Go read the other long Boston Globe story I linked. She's never claimed official tribal recognition and has never sought it. She never benefited in any hiring process. You just don't know what you're talking about. She's faced years of right wing racist smears about her family's story, and now that she went ahead and got a DNA test that aligns with her family's story, she's still getting attacked by the same people. Nobody was talking about "blood quantum laws" at any point until the goal posts got shifted there.

Yes it's very funny to the people who have laughed at the slurs thrown her way to continue to laugh in their own ignorance. That'll never change.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by StrangeSox

[BigSqwert]

Why bother. This dude will never take a fact for what it is and continue shifting the goalposts to whatever suits his needs.  Where were all of these stipulations before? They all appear after her test proves that she was right.

[Reddy]

Sorry guys - just spent a couple hours chillin' w/ Sen. Jeff Merkley - that super establishment Senator from Oregon.

Where were we? Oh yeah - all Democrats not directly endorsed by Bernie are bad and aren't "progressive" enough, and my candidate could totes talk about playing video games 22 days out and not take a political hit. 

[pettie4sox]

Oh Reddy

Edited October 15, 2018 by pettie4sox

[pettie4sox]

[StrangeSox]

11 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Sorry guys - just spent a couple hours chillin' w/ Sen. Jeff Merkley - that super establishment Senator from Oregon.

Where were we? Oh yeah - all Democrats not directly endorsed by Bernie are bad and aren't "progressive" enough, and my candidate could totes talk about playing video games 22 days out and not take a political hit. 

you continue to be very angry at people who don't appear to be posting on this board

[BigSqwert]

Nice to see this living pile of fecal matter is still around

 

 

[southsider2k5]

What White Privilege?

[StrangeSox]

4 hours ago, Reddy said:

Seriously, come on out to Cedar Rapids - it's not far - and knock doors with me and see if you're right about this. Because you might actually hear me ask every single person I talk to about the issues that they're concerned about and that matter to them. Spent 15 minutes talking with an out-of-work pipefitter who's on worker's comp that's about to run out because his doctor told him he's as healed as he's ever going to get.

Only problem? He can't lift his arm above his shoulder. You try doing the job of a pipefitter if you can't put your arm above your head.

He's screwed. And he's screwed because of omnipotent insurance companies and shitty workers laws in Iowa. But yeah - I def don't listen to the people I talk to. Keep running with your assumptions. Or how bout you come put your money where your mouth is for a second?

It'd still be interesting to see what message you think would play to this guy.

[Reddy]

 

17 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

you continue to be very angry at people who don't appear to be posting on this board

You gaslight pretty well, too!

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

It'd still be interesting to see what message you think would play to this guy.

"Have you ever heard of health savings accounts?"

[Reddy]

3 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

It'd still be interesting to see what message you think would play to this guy.

To be honest with you - I don't know enough about his specific issues and how you deal with the interplay between doctor/insurance companies/workers comp/etc - I don't know the policies that would fix that for him because it's not my area of expertise. But what worked with him was just talking about the fact that she's union born-and-raised, fought for collective bargaining and was reprimanded on the House floor while doing it, that she's endorsed by all the major unions. If you're looking at your options and you've got a guy who fights to make sure insurance companies can charge whatever they want and make more money off you (Rs privatized medicaid in IA) and runs a company that buries big corporations' FDA violations, OR someone whose Dad is a pipefitter (like he is), grew up in a union town, who has and will continue to fight for policies that put workers first and will fight for a public option and access to medicare for everyone... which one you think is more likely to have your back? 

Was not a tough sell.

[StrangeSox]

So pro-union, pro-workers' rights, pro-public option. I dunno sounds pretty progressive to me. I guess that's what's dooming Finkenaur to failure, because we all know progressive politics could never work in the midwest.

In all seriousness, those are good policies. That's at least a decent candidate. She sounds miles better than the types of candidates people in this thread tend to dislike, the types who would just talk about HSA's and other garbage fiddling at the margins that won't actually help much at all.

[wrathofhahn]

3 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

The test results have a range of possibilities. One end of that range overlaps with her family's oral tradition. This has been pointed out to you, but you're insisting on focusing on the extreme end of the range at 1/512. Even then, she still has actual ancestry. Years of racist smears were wrong. Here is the Boston Globe's explanation: "Bustamante calculated that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears in her family tree “in the range of 6-10 generations ago.” That timing fits Warren’s family lore, passed down during her Oklahoma upbringing, that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American."

She didn't abuse any system. Go read the other long Boston Globe story I linked. She's never claimed official tribal recognition and has never sought it. She never benefited in any hiring process. You just don't know what you're talking about. She's faced years of right wing racist smears about her family's story, and now that she went ahead and got a DNA test that aligns with her family's story, she's still getting attacked by the same people. Nobody was talking about "blood quantum laws" at any point until the goal posts got shifted there. 

Yes it's very funny to the people who have laughed at the slurs thrown her way to continue to laugh in their own ignorance. That'll never change.

 

I was reading an article on the washington times and they actually made an interesting point the average anglo saxon US person has more Indian ancestry then she does. I don't know if she ever benefited from it that is clearly a democrat talking point the fact of the matter is she claimed something that isn't true she didn't claim her grand daddy grandma x10 was an Indian she claimed she was.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/15/warren-may-be-less-native-american-average/

A 2014 study by Harvard University and 23andMe found that European Americans tested overall for 0.18 percent Native American ancestry, while Ms. Warren’s results show she has anywhere from 0.09 percent to 3 percent (1/64 is 1.5).

Can anyone not see this difference? Like I said I have slightly less then one percent afrikan blood. If I claimed to be a minority as a result of that you do realize that would be a lie right? Warren at best according to her DNA test between 0.09-1.5 percent Indian blood that is not enough for any tribe to recognize her ancestry. She is not Indian or a minority. Period.

Actually you can remove the 1/512. I used the math from CNBC which is wrong. It's actually 1/1024 or or roughly 1/11 of one percent. It also doesn't match her claims it actually at best is 1/64.

Edited October 15, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[GoSox05]

We are doomed.  Just shut the whole thing down.

[wrathofhahn]

39 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

We are doomed.  Just shut the whole thing down.

I bet that is what Warren is saying about her 2020 campaign right about now. MSNBC host was just on saying the test proves she has as much native blood as he does. Ouch.

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

I bet that is what Warren is saying about her 2020 campaign right about now. MSNBC host was just on saying the test proves she has as much native blood as he does. Ouch.

 

Remind me again, why the Fuck does this even matter?

 

Who gives a flying Fuck about Sen Warren's ethnicity, other than moral relativists on the right? You know, the bullshit artists that look the other way at lies coming from our joke of a president every fucking day?

So again, if bullshit is eaten up by the right on an hourly basis, why does this comparatively minor infraction (and apparently one time bullshit) by Sen Warren register, except for Fox News polesmokers? Why should I give a fuck? 

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Remind me again, why the Fuck does this even matter?

 

Who gives a flying Fuck about Sen Warren's ethnicity, other than moral relativists on the right? You know, the bullshit artists that look the other way at lies coming from our joke of a president every fucking day?

So again, if bullshit is eaten up by the right on an hourly basis, why does this comparatively minor infraction (and apparently one time bullshit) by Sen Warren register, except for Fox News polesmokers? Why should I give a fuck? 

With Dems, one single, solitary flaw DOOMS their candidacies. (Exception for HRC, which shouldn't have been made, because her flaws overwhelmed her in the end.)

Biden's age/plagiarism, Booker's coziness with Big Business/Big Pharma and sermonizing without backing it up, Warren's "Pocahontas" factor, it's ALL meant to distract the electorate from being forced to discuss and ponder REAL ISSUES, which might actually cause the balance to tip to the side of the Dems.

Look what Trump did with his nicknames to nearly the entire Republican presidential field in 2016.  We spent 50% of the campaign discussing those soap opera issues (will Cruz defend his wife's honor, is Fiorina going to fight back about her appearance being picked on by an obese/rich/white guy?  is Cruz actually somehow connected to the JFK Conspiracy, etc.?)

DISTRACTIONS.

That's all they are...and quite deliberate ones, at that.

Edited October 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

DISTRACTIONS.

That's all they are...and quite deliberate ones, at that.

While I thank you for the effort, I was really hoping for some Fox News polesmoker and/or right wing pigeon to tell me why I should give a fuck. This, in a day and age when our president lied to his wife, to the media, to the American people about his affairs, and then used payoffs to cover up his lies. 

After all, "alternative facts," right? 

Thanks in advance, trumpologists.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[Reddy]

Yeah was talking about this with some campaign people today and Warren really shot herself in the foot. Completely unforced error that didn't have to be made whatsoever.

2020 is going to be a bloodbath. They've all got fatal flaws. The question is who's left standing after the frontrunners tear each other apart.

[Reddy]

Hint: It's the orange guy.