2018 Democrats thread

[caulfield12]

No, no you first. Your connection that he's the first black president is because black voters identified with the characteristics you described?

 

The origins of that quote are around something far different.

 

Those same qualities are why many whites voted for him...and the same reason that (many) men overlooked his marital infidelities.

 

It’s the mirror image of Trump’s success in many ways. They were different versions of con artists. Reread Primary Colors. Clinton went out of his way to execute a disproportionate number of blacks in ARK because of Willie Horton/Mike Dukakis. “Super predators.” Fighting with Sista Souljah.

 

Complete political calculation.

 

The trick was using the Clinton Foundation AIDS/Africa work to cover up the reality of policies from 1978-2000. And hobnobbing with the most famous celebrities like Oprah, Michael Jordan and Tiger (unsurprisingly, they secretly loathed each other)

 

 

[Reddy]

LMGTFY

 

and in case you're too lazy to look up women's issues

Awesome! Why is it so difficult for him to SAY those things in public, to the faces of black Americans who ask him those questions?

 

His staff wrote up a really great policy position, and that's great. Why can't he remember it when asked?

[caulfield12]

O'Malley messed up on the Black Lives Matter front when he was running as well. I won't deny that. But he was elected Mayor of Baltimore as a white guy TWICE and he isn't galavanting around the country for photo ops with black civil rights leaders just to bolster his 2020 bid. He's actually been campaigning for every Democrat he can to actually help us win elections. He's been on the ground in something like 30 states thus far campaigning for Dems while Bernie mugs for the camera behind Al Sharpton. Please.

 

Oh, and here's O'Malley's platform for Criminal Justice Reform, followed by his plan to revitalize urban America: https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/, https://martinomalley.com/policy/american-c...nd-communities/

 

Most Dems dont even know anything about O?€™Malley and were left more impressed by John Kasich (past arch conservatism conveniently forgotten.) Just didnt register on the radar.

Edited April 6, 2018 by caulfield12

[GoSox05]

Awesome! Why is it so difficult for him to SAY those things in public, to the faces of black Americans who ask him those questions?

 

His staff wrote up a really great policy position, and that's great. Why can't he remember it when asked?

 

 

He literally talks about that stuff all the time.

[BigSqwert]

Awesome! Why is it so difficult for him to SAY those things in public,

 

It's not. He does. You just don't pay enough attention to him since you loathe him.

[BigSqwert]

Most Dems dont even know anything about O?€™Malley and were left more impressed by John Kasich (past arch conservatism conveniently forgotten.) Just didnt register on the radar.

 

Dude has about 500 fans outside of Baltimore.

[Reddy]

By the way, none of us is ever going to convince the other.

 

I continue to discuss Bernie to highlight why his candidacy would be terrible for Dems. For instance Sqwert, GoSox, etc and I all probably agree on 99% of issues. We're on the same team. Yet we aren't and we don't really like each other much. That's the problem with a Bernie 2020 candidacy - it'll just continue the infighting and make it worse. For the good of everyone, we should move on from BOTH HRC and Bernie, and Biden frankly. That's the pragmatic and prudent choice if we want to win in 2020. Of course, the Berner's generally aren't much for pragmatism, but hopefully enough Dems will care enough about beating Trump to want a more united front opposing him. And he's done his job - the Dem party has shifted significantly left because of Bernie, so his supporters should be stoked about that.

[Reddy]

It's not. He does. You just don't pay enough attention to him since you loathe him.

Lol I pay attention to everything man. I follow all his accounts on Twitter, where I'm active daily. My job is to pay attention to everything that's happening in politics. He's made gaffe after gaffe after gaffe on social justice issues. You just don't think so because you're emotionally enamored with him.

[Reddy]

Dude has about 500 fans outside of Baltimore.

Right, because like the liberal Trumpster you are, popular = best. I get it man. I get it.

[GoSox05]

It has to be more than just "beating Trump". If you beat Trump, but just get someone in office who doesn't do anything than the person who replaces him or her will will be someone like Trump, but more focused.

 

If you think Trump is as bad as it can get, think about President Tom Cotton.

[Reddy]

It has to be more than just "beating Trump". If you beat Trump, but just get someone in office who doesn't do anything than the person who replaces him or her will will be someone like Trump, but more focused.

 

If you think Trump is as bad as it can get, think about President Tom Cotton.

Priorities.

[southsider2k5]

The fact that you and the Berners are on the same side here says all that needs to be said.

 

I get it, its benevolent when you do it, and destructive when anyone else does it. Welcome to politics.

[southsider2k5]

Every single time he's faced with responding to or dealing with black activists and/or responding about issues regarding race, he gaffes. He says something stupid. He's earned his reputation. He's absolutely not racist - he just prioritizes his economic policy over social justice because he believes the first will help with the latter. But having a rich old white guy tell black Americans that HE better knows what will help them than they do doesn't always come off so great, does it?

 

What actual policies is he supporting/not supporting that would achieve social justice? I mean just because someone panders to a group of people, doesn't mean their policy choices will actually do that. Hell Trump himself gets up and talks about how he supports blacks, hispanics and gays. How about those policies though?

[southsider2k5]

It has to be more than just "beating Trump". If you beat Trump, but just get someone in office who doesn't do anything than the person who replaces him or her will will be someone like Trump, but more focused.

 

If you think Trump is as bad as it can get, think about President Tom Cotton.

 

No. Beating Trump is priority #1. Even an avowed socialist will be better than this.

[caulfield12]

By the way, none of us is ever going to convince the other.

 

I continue to discuss Bernie to highlight why his candidacy would be terrible for Dems. For instance Sqwert, GoSox, etc and I all probably agree on 99% of issues. We're on the same team. Yet we aren't and we don't really like each other much. That's the problem with a Bernie 2020 candidacy - it'll just continue the infighting and make it worse. For the good of everyone, we should move on from BOTH HRC and Bernie, and Biden frankly. That's the pragmatic and prudent choice if we want to win in 2020. Of course, the Berner's generally aren't much for pragmatism, but hopefully enough Dems will care enough about beating Trump to want a more united front opposing him. And he's done his job - the Dem party has shifted significantly left because of Bernie, so his supporters should be stoked about that.

 

 

That?€™s the core argument. That pragmatic in the last 30 years hasn?€™t led to anything but more economic inequality, educational attainment inequality, erosion of labor unions/workers?€™ rights, etc. That?€™s why Conor Lamb and Sanders are aligned with Trump on tariffs.

 

Btw, what did Clinton and Obama do to help people in Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan...?

 

Other than ObamaCare, the legacy of this pragmatism is globalization, lost jobs to China and SE Asia/India/Mexico, the loss of ability for blue collar/manufacturing workers to provide for families, higher tuition and medical insurance rates, drug costs increasing...the continuing erosion in those communities in the face of immigration, perceived preference for minorities and/or illegals, etc.

 

Clinton essentially brought about cheaper products to Wal-Mart...which of course was one of his biggest lifetime corporate contributors in Arkansas.

 

On environment, gun control, prison reform, abortion...the Dems have lost a lot of ground.

 

Edit:Obama did preserve a lot of Detroit’s auto industry in the face of Romney wanting them to go bankrupt

Edited April 6, 2018 by caulfield12

[GoSox05]

No. Beating Trump is priority #1. Even an avowed socialist will be better than this.

 

 

Welcome, to the team comrade!

[bmags]

Those same qualities are why many whites voted for him...and the same reason that (many) men overlooked his marital infidelities.

 

It’s the mirror image of Trump’s success in many ways. They were different versions of con artists. Reread Primary Colors. Clinton went out of his way to execute a disproportionate number of blacks in ARK because of Willie Horton/Mike Dukakis. “Super predators.” Fighting with Sista Souljah.

 

Complete political calculation.

 

The trick was using the Clinton Foundation AIDS/Africa work to cover up the reality of policies from 1978-2000. And hobnobbing with the most famous celebrities like Oprah, Michael Jordan and Tiger (unsurprisingly, they secretly loathed each other)

 

No man.

 

I think the reality is you misinterpret the fact that Clinton's manuerisms, language, and style was relatably southern (black and white) to people with the traits you identified of infidelity, back stabbing and obesity for some reason. So when people say they relate to bill clinton, you think they are saying they are relating to the worst parts of him.

 

It's not that crazy to understand the support he had from southern black voters after 12 years of Reagan/Bush. He didn't keep black leaders at arms length, he was visible in black communities and churches. He had black members of his leadership, he was visibly close friends with Vernon Jordan and golfed with him. He talked about black communities and his plans for them in speeches after years of neglect in national discussion (aside from moral terms of why they were failing). These were advances at the time though they are table stakes now.

 

It doesn't mean his policies actually served those ends, to the contrary. But it built a lot of equity to bring many of those leaders with a bigger seat at the table than they had before when others weren't and he didn't have to.

 

ALl you are doing is plopping 2016 view on bill clinton and knowledge of his presidency, placing it in the 90s without any context and then drawing caricatures about huge groups of people with that viewpoint.

[bmags]

Everyone throws around the line "you need to be more than AGAINST TRUMP" but I haven't seen a campaign yet that actually has done that. Pritzker is probably the worst at it but even he tamped it down as it got closer.

[caulfield12]

No man.

 

I think the reality is you misinterpret the fact that Clinton's manuerisms, language, and style was relatably southern (black and white) to people with the traits you identified of infidelity, back stabbing and obesity for some reason. So when people say they relate to bill clinton, you think they are saying they are relating to the worst parts of him.

 

It's not that crazy to understand the support he had from southern black voters after 12 years of Reagan/Bush. He didn't keep black leaders at arms length, he was visible in black communities and churches. He had black members of his leadership, he was visibly close friends with Vernon Jordan and golfed with him. He talked about black communities and his plans for them in speeches after years of neglect in national discussion (aside from moral terms of why they were failing). These were advances at the time though they are table stakes now.

 

It doesn't mean his policies actually served those ends, to the contrary. But it built a lot of equity to bring many of those leaders with a bigger seat at the table than they had before when others weren't and he didn't have to.

 

ALl you are doing is plopping 2016 view on bill clinton and knowledge of his presidency, placing it in the 90s without any context and then drawing caricatures about huge groups of people with that viewpoint.

 

Being close to Jordan, Franklin Raines and Ron Brown doesn?€™t explain it, either.

 

He aggressively marketed the Clinton brand to black churches, not unlike Trump securing the evangelical vote.

 

And sure, anyone who came after those two presidents would have been better...not even the Democratic Party was ready to get behind Jesse Jackson in 1988 and 1992.

 

If Mario Cuomo became president, he would have done a lot more for African Americans imo.

Edited April 6, 2018 by caulfield12

[Dam8610]

good lord, man. You're 1) using bulls*** blogs as if they're legit sources of information (typical of the Bernie wing) and 2) you're not answering the question. No one has said he hasn't done anything for civil rights, we're asking what does he PLAN TO DO NOW? He has no answer for that. That's the point being made by people of color in the Democratic party when they criticize Bernie on these issues.

 

If you don't like what it says, discredit the source, even if the source backs all their claims by providing evidence of them. What will Bernie do for civil rights? Read that article, it should give you a good idea. But you're missing the point with that question. I'm not going to claim to speak for all Bernie supporters or progressives, but I feel that the best way to bring about social equality is as a derivative of economic equality. Therefore, I'm going to fight first and foremost for good economic policy and, yes, prioritize it over social policy. If you think that makes me racist, you're being far too simplistic and reductive. An example of economic policy that Bernie had fought for his entire political career and something I'd support and fight for is the elimination of private prisons. My reasoning is that we're paying private companies more to house prisoners than we would pay in taxes to house them as a public service, and states with private prisons are economically incentivized to put their citizens in prisons and keep them there by the horrible contracts they've signed with these corporations that state that they have to pay more for empty beds than they do for inmates. This has a social justice side effect of placing pressure on the justice system to come up with better rehabilitative solutions and reducing or eliminating mandatory minimum sentencing because there are less places to put prisoners and there's no economic incentive for the state to imprison its citizens. That's not racist, it's dealing with the problem the only way the people in power will listen to, by changing the flow of the money.

[Dam8610]

It's not. He does. You just don't pay enough attention to him since you loathe him.

 

+100000000000000

 

Neoliberals hate Bernie's economic policy and therefore will do anything to discredit him.

[StrangeSox]

No. Beating Trump is priority #1. Even an avowed socialist will be better than this.

 

Holy moly I'd never thought I'd see this from ss2k5

 

 

(Sanders is more of an old school New Deal welfare capitalism guy than straight up socialist, FWIW)

[caulfield12]

If you don't like what it says, discredit the source, even if the source backs all their claims by providing evidence of them. What will Bernie do for civil rights? Read that article, it should give you a good idea. But you're missing the point with that question. I'm not going to claim to speak for all Bernie supporters or progressives, but I feel that the best way to bring about social equality is as a derivative of economic equality. Therefore, I'm going to fight first and foremost for good economic policy and, yes, prioritize it over social policy. If you think that makes me racist, you're being far too simplistic and reductive. An example of economic policy that Bernie had fought for his entire political career and something I'd support and fight for is the elimination of private prisons. My reasoning is that we're paying private companies more to house prisoners than we would pay in taxes to house them as a public service, and states with private prisons are economically incentivized to put their citizens in prisons and keep them there by the horrible contracts they've signed with these corporations that state that they have to pay more for empty beds than they do for inmates. This has a social justice side effect of placing pressure on the justice system to come up with better rehabilitative solutions and reducing or eliminating mandatory minimum sentencing because there are less places to put prisoners and there's no economic incentive for the state to imprison its citizens. That's not racist, it's dealing with the problem the only way the people in power will listen to, by changing the flow of the money.

 

Exactly right, especially with drug sentencing...he?€™s the anti-Jeff Sessions.

Sanders is just awkward in the same way David Letterman is interviewing Jay-Z. His heart is in the right place.

 

That said, new blood is desperately needed...and someone with foreign policy curiosity/bonafides. A 45 year old mix of Sanders and Biden. Combine with the RFK 68, Gore 2000, John Edwards populist touch on the other side of the political spectrum. Howard Dean would be another example.

Edited April 7, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Sanders/Kamala Harris shoot themselves in the foot

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/politics/ber...2020/index.html

[GoSox05]

Sanders/Kamala Harris shoot themselves in the foot

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/politics/ber...2020/index.html

 

Yeah, I don't think those two things are going to "stalk" them for the next two years.