2018 Democrats thread

[kapkomet]

Holy moly I'd never thought I'd see this from ss2k5 (Sanders is more of an old school New Deal welfare capitalism guy than straight up socialist, FWIW)

 

Well, I'll agree with him. This from a guy who hasn't posted in the filibuster for 4 or 5 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Sanders/Kamala Harris shoot themselves in the foot

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/politics/ber...2020/index.html

 

The party wants to purge itself of the Sanders issue so badly, they are just looking for stuff to complain about. None of what he said wasn't true.

[Dam8610]

Sanders/Kamala Harris shoot themselves in the foot

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/politics/ber...2020/index.html

 

For Bernie, that wasn't shooting himself in the foot, that was conveying his core message, that we need to fight for economic equality first and foremost, and racial equality will naturally follow. Many of his policy proposals have that on full display. Abolishment of private prisons, single payer healthcare, tuition free college, and government funded job training and apprenticeship programs are all proposals that rest on a foundation of economic equality but that clearly have easy to see racial equality benefits to them as well. He maybe should avoid telling Democrats the truth about Obama because of the hero worship they have going on for him, but his policy is solid and he's right about economic equality being the priority, regardless of who does or doesn't want to hear it.

[Reddy]

Everyone throws around the line "you need to be more than AGAINST TRUMP" but I haven't seen a campaign yet that actually has done that. Pritzker is probably the worst at it but even he tamped it down as it got closer.

This. No one is actually doing this. No one.

[Reddy]

+100000000000000

 

Neoliberals hate Bernie's economic policy and therefore will do anything to discredit him.

Lol I've consistently said that I support Bernie's policies, just not him. But yes, throwing around the term neoliberal incorrectly makes you look very informed.

[Reddy]

For Bernie, that wasn't shooting himself in the foot, that was conveying his core message, that we need to fight for economic equality first and foremost, and racial equality will naturally follow. Many of his policy proposals have that on full display. Abolishment of private prisons, single payer healthcare, tuition free college, and government funded job training and apprenticeship programs are all proposals that rest on a foundation of economic equality but that clearly have easy to see racial equality benefits to them as well. He maybe should avoid telling Democrats the truth about Obama because of the hero worship they have going on for him, but his policy is solid and he's right about economic equality being the priority, regardless of who does or doesn't want to hear it.

The fact that he can't appreciate context, and that he doesn't seem to understand that there's a time and place to say certain things and NOT to say certain things, is not going to do him any favors given his reputation with minority voters. It's just stupid, and it's part of the thing we hate about Trump. He can't not put his foot in his mouth, and it happens over and over because he thinks his opinion is more important than anyone else's all the time. Bernie doing foreign policy, for instance, would be f***ing awful.

[StrangeSox]

Well, I'll agree with him. This from a guy who hasn't posted in the filibuster for 4 or 5 years.

 

 

 

where is your mark-to-market post, kap

[southsider2k5]

The fact that he can't appreciate context, and that he doesn't seem to understand that there's a time and place to say certain things and NOT to say certain things, is not going to do him any favors given his reputation with minority voters. It's just stupid, and it's part of the thing we hate about Trump. He can't not put his foot in his mouth, and it happens over and over because he thinks his opinion is more important than anyone else's all the time. Bernie doing foreign policy, for instance, would be f***ing awful.

 

How dare he support actual policies over pandering to people. What a monster!

[GoSox05]

The fact that he can't appreciate context, and that he doesn't seem to understand that there's a time and place to say certain things and NOT to say certain things, is not going to do him any favors given his reputation with minority voters. It's just stupid, and it's part of the thing we hate about Trump. He can't not put his foot in his mouth, and it happens over and over because he thinks his opinion is more important than anyone else's all the time. Bernie doing foreign policy, for instance, would be f***ing awful.

 

I'd love to know why.

 

[Reddy]

I'd love to know why.

I literally just explained why. Because he has no appreciation for context, compromise, tact, or the sensibilities of others. Those are three really important things while engaging in diplomacy with other world leaders who also have egos.

[Reddy]

How dare he support actual policies over pandering to people. What a monster!

Ah yes. Why be respectful of the people this country has systemically oppressed since its founding over 250 years ago when you, as an old privileged white guy, are absolutely certain you've got all the answers? Good point.

 

#ReasonsRepubsIdentifyWithBernie

[GoSox05]

I literally just explained why. Because he has no appreciation for context, compromise, tact, or the sensibilities of others. Those are three really important things while engaging in diplomacy with other world leaders who also have egos.

 

 

Give me an example. Like if Sanders was president during the Obama years, what foreign policy decision would he have been horrible at?

 

Or you could use a current situation as an example.

[Reddy]

Here's something that'll blow all of your collective minds: I actually agree with the comments Bernie made. I think he chose a really, really poor time to make them, and that's a consistent pattern on his part when dealing with and interacting with people of color.

[southsider2k5]

Ah yes. Why be respectful of the people this country has systemically oppressed since its founding over 250 years ago when you, as an old privileged white guy, are absolutely certain you've got all the answers? Good point.

 

#ReasonsRepubsIdentifyWithBernie

 

This is Trump-esque in its stretch for an emotional response over any actual substance. This is the exact type of garbage that has enabled the system we have in place.

[Reddy]

Give me an example. Like if Sanders was president during the Obama years, what foreign policy decision would he have been horrible at?

 

Or you could use a current situation as an example.

Can you give me a single example from his time in Congress where he capitulated on a principle and compromised about something?

 

Come on. I'm not going to waste my time building a hypothetical argument that could easily turn into a 10 page research paper. That's an unreasonable ask. We as voters make decisions like this based on the experience we have with the candidates, and I don't have to link you to the dozens and dozens of articles about Bernie's lack of expertise or interest in foreign policy. I'm sure you're aware that it's a weakness for him. Couple that with his immobility on issues once he does take a position and his track record of being impossible to work with in Congress, and that's how I've come to the decision I have regarding his aptitude with foreign policy. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Reddy]

This is Trump-esque in its stretch for an emotional response over any actual substance. This is the exact type of garbage that has enabled the system we have in place.

 

History of oppression of blacks is an emotional response devoid of substance, says the privileged white guy.

[southsider2k5]

History of oppression of blacks is an emotional response devoid of substance, says the privileged white guy.

 

You could be actually doing something on the ground in your community, or trying to enact policies as Sanders believes is right, to enact actual change. Instead you worry about the party and its look. You are the definition of MLK's "White Moderate".

[GoSox05]

Can you give me a single example from his time in Congress where he capitulated on a principle and compromised about something?

 

Come on. I'm not going to waste my time building a hypothetical argument that could easily turn into a 10 page research paper. That's an unreasonable ask. We as voters make decisions like this based on the experience we have with the candidates, and I don't have to link you to the dozens and dozens of articles about Bernie's lack of expertise or interest in foreign policy. I'm sure you're aware that it's a weakness for him. Couple that with his immobility on issues once he does take a position and his track record of being impossible to work with in Congress, and that's how I've come to the decision I have regarding his aptitude with foreign policy. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

I didn't know it was a weakness for him. The criticism he usually gets about foreign policy are by people who have gotten us into some of the most disastrous conflicts over the past 50 years.

 

He has been one of the few people that has defended Obama's Iran deal. He voted against the Iraq war which has left a million people dead. He criticized Israel as they just killed 15 protesters.

 

So, from just those couple of examples, he would be pretty good. I don't think Bernie Sanders is great with everything when it comes to foreign policy, but he is certainly better than most.

 

Also, the idea that he is stubborn and no one in congress can work with him. Please see the link below.

 

Bernie Sanders Wants Congress to End U.S. Support for Yemen War. Saudi Lobbyists Fought Similar Measures Last Year.

Edited April 9, 2018 by GoSox05

[Dam8610]

Lol I've consistently said that I support Bernie's policies, just not him. But yes, throwing around the term neoliberal incorrectly makes you look very informed.

 

That doesn't even make sense. If you don't want him implementing his policies, then who? Also, what do you mean by"throwing around the term neoliberal incorrectly"? The portion of the Democratic party that wants rid of him consists primarily of neoliberals.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Dam8610

[Dam8610]

The fact that he can't appreciate context, and that he doesn't seem to understand that there's a time and place to say certain things and NOT to say certain things, is not going to do him any favors given his reputation with minority voters. It's just stupid, and it's part of the thing we hate about Trump. He can't not put his foot in his mouth, and it happens over and over because he thinks his opinion is more important than anyone else's all the time. Bernie doing foreign policy, for instance, would be f***ing awful.

 

Yes, staying out of the Iraq war (and thus not creating ISIL) and not doing drone strikes and bombing and killing thousands of innocents would've been just absolutely terrible foreign policy decisions. I mean, who would want to pay for single payer healthcare for several years or free college and student loan forgiveness with the savings from not going to war with Iraq?

[Reddy]

You could be actually doing something on the ground in your community, or trying to enact policies as Sanders believes is right, to enact actual change. Instead you worry about the party and its look. You are the definition of MLK's "White Moderate".

Brother, how on earth do you know what I do on a regular basis? Honestly curious. I'm not even close to moderate, and I'm literally on the front lines on a daily basis talking to voters of all colors. This. Is. What. I'm. Doing. For. A. Living. Now.

 

But sure, I could be doing something for my community. Ok.

[Reddy]

Bernie wing Dems, do you see SS2k5 and raBBit both coming to your defense? Why do you think that is? Do they really agree with you on policy, or do they just want to undermine Democratic politics?

 

Because Dam, GoSox, Sqwert, etc - you and these two could not be further apart on policy.

[southsider2k5]

Bernie wing Dems, do you see SS2k5 and raBBit both coming to your defense? Why do you think that is? Do they really agree with you on policy, or do they just want to undermine Democratic politics?

 

Because Dam, GoSox, Sqwert, etc - you and these two could not be further apart on policy.

 

Its because others can see character assassination from a mile away. Besides, you seem to be the one who doesn't care about policy, only about how the way a person speaks about things appears to others.

[GoSox05]

Bernie wing Dems, do you see SS2k5 and raBBit both coming to your defense? Why do you think that is? Do they really agree with you on policy, or do they just want to undermine Democratic politics?

 

Because Dam, GoSox, Sqwert, etc - you and these two could not be further apart on policy.

 

I don't speak for them and I don't think they are running to my defense. I also don't think they trying to "undermine" anything.

 

I would assume it's something along the lines that while they disagree on Sanders policies they respect that he is clear on what he believes and stands by it.

 

Something like that.

[Dam8610]

Every single time he's faced with responding to or dealing with black activists and/or responding about issues regarding race, he gaffes. He says something stupid. He's earned his reputation. He's absolutely not racist - he just prioritizes his economic policy over social justice because he believes the first will help with the latter. But having a rich old white guy tell black Americans that HE better knows what will help them than they do doesn't always come off so great, does it?

 

Bernie literally let Black Lives Matter take over one of his campaign events in the interest of hearing what they had to say. He's also the person who forced many of the best policies for minorities on to the Democratic platform. Huge gaffes, there.