2018 Democrats thread

[Dam8610]

34 minutes ago, Reddy said:

You... haven't looked at the Democratic Party platform lately, have you?

Words are great but empty without action to back them.

[SoxFan2003]

21 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

BILL COSBY INNOCENT !!!!!!!!!!

— KANYE WEST (@kanyewest) February 9, 2016 (Since deleted)

I don't think a Kanye tweet belongs in the Democrat forum anymore.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, SoxFan2003 said:

I don't think a Kanye tweet belongs in the Democrat forum anymore.

Please note the quality of the information in that tweet and the type of person that Kanye West is defending there.

[SoxFan2003]

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Please note the quality of the information in that tweet and the type of person that Kanye West is defending there.

I wasn't commenting on the substance of the post.  I was just trying to be funny regarding Kanye's apparant support for the President this week.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, SoxFan2003 said:

I wasn't commenting on the substance of the post.  I was just trying to be funny regarding Kanye's apparant support for the President this week.

Which is why I posted that here. It's almost as if Kanye West has some affinity for tweeting in support of sexual predators. See the connection?

[Dam8610]

On 4/26/2018 at 2:03 PM, Jack Parkman said:

The only way to stop the destruction of the US democracy is to amend the constitution to overturn Citizens United. That decision has basically corrupted the system by legalizing bribery. Without overturning CU, we're basically going to turn into Russia. 

That's one of many reforms needed. Our voting system needs to be a lot more like Australia's, where voting is mandatory and done by ranking candidates on your ballot.

[Reddy]

31 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

That's one of many reforms needed. Our voting system needs to be a lot more like Australia's, where voting is mandatory and done by ranking candidates on your ballot.

Hey look, we agree on something. Mandatory voting will never happen in the land of the free, but ranked choice voting is something I absolutely get behind. Maine is doing it this cycle I believe.

[Reddy]

3 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Words are great but empty without action to back them.

When have they yet had the opportunity to put this new platform into action? They haven't been in power since creating/adopting it? You hate on the Democrats irrationally, and hold them to impossible standards.

WHY HAVEN'T YOU FIXED THE WORLD FROM YOUR MINORITY POSITION IN BOTH HOUSES!?!?!? C'mon.

[Dam8610]

20 minutes ago, Reddy said:

When have they yet had the opportunity to put this new platform into action? They haven't been in power since creating/adopting it? You hate on the Democrats irrationally, and hold them to impossible standards.

WHY HAVEN'T YOU FIXED THE WORLD FROM YOUR MINORITY POSITION IN BOTH HOUSES!?!?!? C'mon.

It's not an "impossible standard" to refuse money from the private prison industry or other large companies that would create potential for conflicts of interest, nor to create or cosponsor legislation raising the minimum wage to a living wage and indexing it to inflation. So why has no Democrat done those things?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Dam8610 said:

It's not an "impossible standard" to refuse money from the private prison industry or other large companies that would create potential for conflicts of interest, nor to create or cosponsor legislation raising the minimum wage to a living wage and indexing it to inflation. So why has no Democrat done those things?

Link

Quote

Rep. Bobby Scott (VA-03), Rep. Keith Ellison (MN-05), Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT), and Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) are introducing the Raise the Wage Act of 2017 in the House (H.R. 15) and Senate (S. 1242). The bill has more than 150 cosponsors in the House and 23 cosponsors in the Senate.

"For the last 10 years, Congress, giving tax breaks to the rich, has forgotten to raise the minimum wage. We are here to remind them that a $7.25 minimum wage is a starvation minimum wage. Nobody can live on $7.25. You can’t live on $8. You can’t live on $10 an hour," Sanders said. "And that is why we are saying that after 10 years of inaction the United States Congress is going to raise the minimum wage to a living wage: $15 an hour."

So I think you owe the Democratic Party an apology.

[Dam8610]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Link

So I think you owe the Democratic Party an apology.

Not really. Who sponsored S. 1242?

 

The Democrats are being dragged into progressive territory against their sincerest wishes.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Dam8610
Put the wrong bill number the first time.

[Reddy]

52 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Not really. Who sponsored S. 1242?

 

The Democrats are being dragged into progressive territory against their sincerest wishes.

This is why I say impossible standard. Because even when they do EXACTLY what you're calling on them to do, it somehow isn't good enough. 

[Reddy]

Dam, how do you feel about corporate Cory Booker's job guarantee bill? 

[Dam8610]

12 minutes ago, Reddy said:

This is why I say impossible standard. Because even when they do EXACTLY what you're calling on them to do, it somehow isn't good enough. 

Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing they're doing it, but let's not pretend it wasn't Bernie's idea that they're being dragged kicking and screaming into.

 

10 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Dam, how do you feel about corporate Cory Booker's job guarantee bill? 

I'll read further, but my initial thought is it seems like corporate welfare (because it's a grant program, large corporations will be the most eligible for those grants) tailored to appease the masses, and it's a half measure because it's a "pilot program" that won't be available everywhere. It certainly doesn't accomplish the same things Bernie's proposed program does, because his covers the whole country and is project focused, much like FDR's program. 

In short, it looks like Booker is desperate to seem more progressive to set himself up better for a 2020 presidential run.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Not really. Who sponsored S. 1242?

 

The Democrats are being dragged into progressive territory against their sincerest wishes.

Be happy with the scraps they are giving you, or else.

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Be happy with the scraps they are giving you, or else.

This is the Democrat thread, we don't need your party's official slogan.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Be happy with the scraps they are giving you, or else.

Oh, I thought that was a direct quote from Steny Hoyer or Rahm...

[Reddy]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Be happy with the scraps they are giving you, or else.

Your trolling in support of the Bernie wing is so disingenuous ?

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Reddy said:

Your trolling in support of the Bernie wing is so disingenuous ?

I still remember during the Occupy protests how excited he was when Chicago stock brokers went out on the porch to drink expensive champagne and laugh at the crowd below.

[Dam8610]

6 hours ago, Reddy said:

Your trolling in support of the Bernie wing is so disingenuous ?

To me, you embody a lot of the problems I have with the Democratic party. You disingenuously pretend like you're interested in a discussion of the issues only to stop abruptly when you feel you've "made your point", ignore any valid points made by me along the way, and attempt to reduce me to a stereotype that you can easily villify. This reminds me of how the Democratic party pays lip service to progressive viewpoints, but rarely, if ever, acts on them, or the alienating smears of the Clinton campaign of the "Bernie Bro" and the "basket of deplorables", or how the party leadership feels it has the right to tell voters that their votes don't matter (which is an argument that has been made in open court by DNC attorneys). You, like most of the Democratic party, communicate that you feel your viewpoint is the only reasonable one and people can either get on board with it or leave. That perception of attitude is what has caused many voters to abandon the Democratic party. This could all be a miscommunication, but having spoken to several psychologists, sociologists, and communications specialists on the issue, the responsibility for the message communicated belongs to the sender. None of this is meant to be an attack, it's actually meant to help, but I've tried to have this discussion several times with several mainstream Democrats, so I won't be surprised in the slightest when you try to reduce this to some talking point narrative, belittle my viewpoint, and point out the obvious truth that on most issues, Republicans are worse. Being the better of two evils isn't something of which to be proud.

[Reddy]

7 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

To me, you embody a lot of the problems I have with the Democratic party. You disingenuously pretend like you're interested in a discussion of the issues only to stop abruptly when you feel you've "made your point", ignore any valid points made by me along the way, and attempt to reduce me to a stereotype that you can easily villify. This reminds me of how the Democratic party pays lip service to progressive viewpoints, but rarely, if ever, acts on them, or the alienating smears of the Clinton campaign of the "Bernie Bro" and the "basket of deplorables", or how the party leadership feels it has the right to tell voters that their votes don't matter (which is an argument that has been made in open court by DNC attorneys). You, like most of the Democratic party, communicate that you feel your viewpoint is the only reasonable one and people can either get on board with it or leave. That perception of attitude is what has caused many voters to abandon the Democratic party. This could all be a miscommunication, but having spoken to several psychologists, sociologists, and communications specialists on the issue, the responsibility for the message communicated belongs to the sender. None of this is meant to be an attack, it's actually meant to help, but I've tried to have this discussion several times with several mainstream Democrats, so I won't be surprised in the slightest when you try to reduce this to some talking point narrative, belittle my viewpoint, and point out the obvious truth that on most issues, Republicans are worse. Being the better of two evils isn't something of which to be proud.

The irony is that everything you said here applies to you as well. Scroll back. You're never willing to cede any ground on an issue once you've made up your mind about it. Democrats are always wrong, always, in perpetuity, and even when they're right they're wrong because they didn't get there soon enough or they only did it because Bernie, etc, etc.

It was a good speech, but you might want to hold up a mirror.

I wholeheartedly believe Democrats need something different to become the party of the working class again. And I think they're on their way, thanks to the issues Bernie brought to light. I support most if not all the policies you do. But I also embrace pragmatism, because not every policy plays everywhere and the Bernie style candidate doesn't play everywhere. In PA 18 the party supported Lamb. In Alabama, Jones. In WI1 the party supports the Bernie candidate. Why? Because they're the most likely to win with their respective electorates.

What frustrates me about Bernie folks is it's all dogma with no wiggle room. Everything is a litmus test. You're either right on the right issues or you're no use to the movement, no use to progress, and you need to be primaried. This does nothing but widen the chasm that already exists in Congress and in politics. The polarization makes accomplishing anything in Congress impossible, and this fleeing to the wings that both parties are doing just perpetuates that. Going far left just means the pendulum swings even farther right the next time around, and all the progress gets undone. What's the point in that? 

My philosophy is this: in this unique moment in time when we're literally in a fight to protect our institutions and Democracy, my priority is having a Democratic majority to put a check on Trump's power. End stop. Everything else is secondary. How long do you think RBG and Kennedy hold out on the SC? That's why having 51 Democratic Senators is vital no matter how moderate they are. The Senate is a hell of a tall order this cycle, I know, but we're DEFINITELY not winning it if we don't support the red state Dems. I don't think litmus test Sanders folks appreciate the gravity of the current situation in regard to the Supreme Court.

I also feel that Sanders supporters don't appreciate where Dems are coming from on many of these social issues and the Supreme Court, because many of them are straight white men who aren't directly affected by Trump's policies or any of the policies the SC would overturn if Trump had one or two more vacancies to fill. LGBT, women's rights, race issues, immigration - they're secondary to the economic platform because they have the *luxury* to put those things second. Much of the base of the Democratic Party does not have that same luxury. That lack of empathy from Sanders folks frustrates the hell out of me.

Anyway. I want Dems to win because I think Dems help us protect our institutions and mean fewer people get hurt in the short term. It stems the bleeding. THEN, once you've cauterized the wound, you start the repair process and push to enact policy that will bring the type of changes you and I both want to see. But you can't heal the wound until you've first stopped the bleeding. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Reddy

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

To me, you embody a lot of the problems I have with the Democratic party. You disingenuously pretend like you're interested in a discussion of the issues only to stop abruptly when you feel you've "made your point", ignore any valid points made by me along the way, and attempt to reduce me to a stereotype that you can easily villify. This reminds me of how the Democratic party pays lip service to progressive viewpoints, but rarely, if ever, acts on them, or the alienating smears of the Clinton campaign of the "Bernie Bro" and the "basket of deplorables", or how the party leadership feels it has the right to tell voters that their votes don't matter (which is an argument that has been made in open court by DNC attorneys). You, like most of the Democratic party, communicate that you feel your viewpoint is the only reasonable one and people can either get on board with it or leave. That perception of attitude is what has caused many voters to abandon the Democratic party. This could all be a miscommunication, but having spoken to several psychologists, sociologists, and communications specialists on the issue, the responsibility for the message communicated belongs to the sender. None of this is meant to be an attack, it's actually meant to help, but I've tried to have this discussion several times with several mainstream Democrats, so I won't be surprised in the slightest when you try to reduce this to some talking point narrative, belittle my viewpoint, and point out the obvious truth that on most issues, Republicans are worse. Being the better of two evils isn't something of which to be proud.

Especially when history dictates time after time that the Dems usually end up with these positions anyway. The spineless own the party and are more interested in being liked than their own principles. 

[Reddy]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Especially when history dictates time after time that the Dems usually end up with these positions anyway. The spineless own the party and are more interested in being liked than their own principles. 

That's pretty rich coming from a Republican whose party has completely cow-towed to Trump...

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Reddy said:

That's pretty rich coming from a Republican whose party has completely cow-towed to Trump...

I have quit the Republican party because I didn't believe in it anymore.  But please continue to put election over principles and people. 

[Reddy]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have quit the Republican party because I didn't believe in it anymore.  But please continue to put election over principles and people. 

Huh. Weird. I'm pretty sure I said protecting real people and the American institutions from Trump was my priority. Confused how that jives with having a lack of principles.