2018 Democrats thread

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Reddy said:

For the record though, y'all are moving the goalposts. His argument was that MOST establishment Dems are bad on the economy/wall street issues, and that's simply not true.

Read my addendum above. I have more of an insider's view in to what is actually happening, at the very least locally. Raising campaign funds and returning the favor are winning over principles and integrity. It is infuriating. Establishment Dems think they have to take money from special interests to win elections. Those dollars come with a favor. They don't realize that message>>>>money and people can outspend you but if you have a better message that resonates with more people, you'll still win. 

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

I still don't trust the establishment Democrats to turn on their corporate masters when the time comes. 

On an unrelated note, Joe Donnelly represents the problem I have with the system. I want a better choice than he as a candidate for senator. There isn't one. He ran unopposed in the primary and I found out that Indiana's laws don't even allow me the option to write in a candidate in a primary election.

We have to start in reality. The system is not likely to dramatically change soon. You are most likely going to have 2 options when youre time to vote comes. The second part is, most candidates are going to be beholden to someone. The real players give money to both sides.

Lets look at Sanders:

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=N00000528

Every candidate who gets to that level is going to have corporate masters. 

[Reddy]

 

I still don't trust the establishment Democrats to turn on their corporate masters when the time comes. 

On an unrelated note, Joe Donnelly represents the problem I have with the system. I want a better choice than he as a candidate for senator. There isn't one. He ran unopposed in the primary and I found out that Indiana's laws don't even allow me the option to write in a candidate in a primary election.

Look at where you live. He's the best you're going to get right now. If you want to improve things in Indiana, focus locally.

[Reddy]

 

Read my addendum above. I have more of an insider's view in to what is actually happening, at the very least locally. Raising campaign funds and returning the favor are winning over principles and integrity. It is infuriating. Establishment Dems think they have to take money from special interests to win elections. Those dollars come with a favor. They don't realize that message>>>>money and people can outspend you but if you have a better message that resonates with more people, you'll still win. 

I agree with you, which is what's so exciting about this cycle. Women raising 40k are beating established men who raise 750k in primaries. It's awesome. And many, many establishment Dems have eschewed corporate PAC money this cycle, which is a great step forward.

[Dam8610]

2 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Look at where you live. He's the best you're going to get right now. If you want to improve things in Indiana, focus locally.

This is where I say if we change the messaging to focus on economic issues, especially in a place like rust belt Indiana where all the steel mill and factory jobs people used to come from around the country to get have evaporated, we could get a progressive Democrat in the Senate or House.

[Reddy]

 

This is where I say if we change the messaging to focus on economic issues, especially in a place like rust belt Indiana where all the steel mill and factory jobs people used to come from around the country to get have evaporated, we could get a progressive Democrat in the Senate or House.

Those things, unfortunately, don't supersede God, Guns and Gays (And now, immigration/racial issues) in the minds of Republicans in Indiana. They've proven they're willing to vote against their economic interest for all of the above.

But if you think I'm wrong, then work to prove it at the local level. If you do, and it's successful, I promise people will take notice.

[Jack Parkman]

22 minutes ago, Reddy said:

I agree with you, which is what's so exciting about this cycle. Women raising 40k are beating established men who raise 750k in primaries. It's awesome. And many, many establishment Dems have eschewed corporate PAC money this cycle, which is a great step forward.

Right now, I'm too busy trying to punt Roskam from IL-06. He won't meet his constituents and uses the Scalise shooting as an excuse. He won't hold a town hall with his constituents because he claims he fears for his life. I don't get to tell him that I fear for mine because police don't have the proper training to deal with Autistic people. 

BTW, Reddy, as an autistic white male, there is overlap on 80-90% of issues minorities face, including the following: Not being paid a fair wage or being given an opportunity to prove myself at a full time position(AKA workplace discrimination) having to decide practically whether to work or give up my government benefits and fearing for my life in an encounter with law enforcement, as well as not having most people, even people who care about me, understand what it is like to have a disability. I have been disenfranchised too, and I understand the struggle. I could go on. I unilaterally support movements that seek the civil  rights of diverse groups, and hope that as more minority groups that have a larger percentage of the population win their civil rights, I will then have the platform to win mine. I have personally spoken with the Democratic nominee for Kane County Sheriff on a training program to help police officers better understand how to deal with an autistic person they may encounter when on the job, so I'm hoping to somewhat help that issue here in Kane county. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[StrangeSox]

9 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Those things, unfortunately, don't supersede God, Guns and Gays (And now, immigration/racial issues) in the minds of Republicans in Indiana. They've proven they're willing to vote against their economic interest for all of the above.

 

Who cares what garbage candidate Republicans will go for? Stop chasing their votes! Get all your Democrats voting, and go after the people who are currently non-voters. That's another source of frustration among the left with the Democratic leadership.

[Reddy]

 

Right now, I'm too busy trying to punt Roskam from IL-06. He won't meet his constituents and uses the Scalise shooting as an excuse. He won't hold a town hall with his constituents because he claims he fears for his life. I don't get to tell him that I fear for mine because police don't have the proper training to deal with Autistic people. 

BTW, Reddy, as an autistic white male, there is overlap on 80-90% of issues minorities face, including the following: Not being paid a fair wage or being given an opportunity to prove myself at a full time position, having to decide practically whether to work or give up my government benefits and fearing for my life in an encounter with law enforcement, as well as not having most people, even people who care about me, understand what it is like to be have a disability, Icould go on. I uniterally support movements that support the rights of diverse groups, and hope that as more people that have a larger percentage of the population win their civil rights, I will then have the platform to win mine. I have personally spoken with the Democratic nominee for Kane County Sheriff on a training program to help police officers better understand how to deal with an autistic person they may encounter when on the job, so I'm hoping for to somewhat help that issue here in Kane county. 

Thanks for the work you're putting in. Truly. I completely agree with you. People with disabilities face so much discrimination in this country and nobody ever talks about it, which is a fucking tragedy. Thanks for sharing that, and I really appreciate your activism. It's easy to be dismissive of people on the internet because it's so anonymous, but this was a good reminder that there's probably a lot more to each of us behind the screen names than we give each other credit for.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Reddy

[Reddy]

 

Who cares what garbage candidate Republicans will go for? Stop chasing their votes! Get all your Democrats voting, and go after the people who are currently non-voters. That's another source of frustration among the left with the Democratic leadership.

It's an issue of sheer numbers. There aren't enough Democrats for us to choose that strategy. Trying to get non-voters to vote is - statistically and historically - a really poor strategy. The most predictive indicator of voting behavior is prior voting behavior.

[StrangeSox]

Statistically and historically, what rate of success has chasing Republican voters had for Democrats? What is the rate of success in shifting our political landscape? How long do you keep chasing Republican votes as the party gets crazier and crazier and crazier? How spectacularly did that assumption that Clinton could pick up hesitant suburban Republicans backfire?

 

 

Quote

The most predictive indicator of voting behavior is prior voting behavior.

Exactly! Republican voters will vote Republican or sit home. Turn out your voters and expand your base.

Edited May 24, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Reddy]

 

Statistically and historically, what rate of success has chasing Republican voters had for Democrats? What is the rate of success in shifting our political landscape? How long do you keep chasing Republican votes as the party gets crazier and crazier and crazier? How spectacularly did that assumption that Clinton could pick up hesitant suburban Republicans backfire?

It's not about chasing reliable Republican votes. It's about chasing the middle. The moderates. The swing voters. The ones who don't vote consistent party line - of which there are MANY. And potentially the inconsistent voters. But I'd rather chase someone who votes every single election and splits a ticket than someone who votes only occasionally or not at all, regardless of their political leanings.

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Thanks for the work you're putting in. Truly. I completely agree with you. People with disabilities face so much discrimination in this country and nobody ever talks about it, which is a fucking tragedy. Thanks for sharing that, and I really appreciate your activism. It's easy to be dismissive of people on the internet because it's so anonymous, but it's this was a good reminder that there's probably a lot more to each of us behind the screen names than we give each other credit for.

I haven't been able to figure out how to gain understanding and support through individuals, so I took it to the political arena. Politics isn't a spectator sport and there isn't a damn thing in the world that isn't political in some way or another. Unfortunately, I'm an outlier when it comes to autistic people as I am a natural extrovert, despite the disability pushing most who have it to introvertedness. I'm not shy about being autistic, and I want to be an activist to the best of my ability. I don't have a large group of supporters, because most don't care about fighting for their rights. The community likes to b**** about things, but they don't want to really do anything about it. I don't care. Even if I don't have the support of the community, I'm still going to fight on their behalf to make their lives better in any way I can. 

[Reddy]

 

I haven't been able to figure out how to gain understanding and support through individuals, so I took it to the political arena. Politics isn't a spectator sport and there isn't a damn thing in the world that isn't political in some way or another. Unfortunately, I'm an outlier when it comes to autistic people as I am a natural extrovert, despite the disability pushing most who have it to introvertedness. I'm not shy about being autistic, and I want to be an activist to the best of my ability. I don't have a large group of supporters, because most don't care about fighting for their rights. The community likes to b**** about things, but they don't want to really do anything about it. I don't care. Even if I don't have the support of the community, I'm still going to fight on their behalf to make their lives better in any way I can. 

That's fucking awesome. Thank you. I'm grateful people like you are willing to put yourself out there and stand for what's right, even if it doesn't feel particularly popular while you're doing it.

[GoSox05]

25 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Statistically and historically, what rate of success has chasing Republican voters had for Democrats? What is the rate of success in shifting our political landscape? How long do you keep chasing Republican votes as the party gets crazier and crazier and crazier? How spectacularly did that assumption that Clinton could pick up hesitant suburban Republicans backfire?

 

 

Exactly! Republican voters will vote Republican or sit home. Turn out your voters and expand your base.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” Chuck Schumer, 2016

[Reddy]

11 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” Chuck Schumer, 2016

That's proven accurate in every race since 2016, with traditionally red suburbs shifting left. 

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, Reddy said:

That's proven accurate in every race since 2016, with traditionally red suburbs shifting left. 

That isn't mutually exclusive though, and Dems can get the message across to both suburbanites and rural blue collar people. They have forgotten how to campaign. When you go to urban areas, you talk about how your policies appeal to urban people, and when you go to rural areas, you talk about the things that benefit those people there. The huge issue is people who might vote Dem but are bigots. Those people are hard to win over and will lean GOP more often than not. I laugh at this, because you hear from GOP supporters all of the time that they don't play identity politics but they do. Their identity politics is I'm white and the riff raff is taking over the country. I don't want any riff raff! 

Also, there is a special place in hell for Libertarians. We should give them the area between San Bernadino, CA and Phoenix, AZ and bordered on the south by Mexico and the north by Lake Mead as their own little country and let them go play Hunger Games there. I'm sure they'll tell us how wonderful their independent state is and how everything works so perfectly and it is a utopia. FREE MARKET FTW!!!! 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[GoSox05]

26 minutes ago, Reddy said:

That's proven accurate in every race since 2016, with traditionally red suburbs shifting left. 

Maybe.  It might be working on a race to race basis, but it was a giant failure at the national level.

It's also one of my fears.  One party filled with complete nationalist psychos and the other being the socially liberal wall street party.  It would be like if England only had the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP.

Edited May 24, 2018 by GoSox05

[Reddy]

18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That isn't mutually exclusive though, and Dems can get the message across to both suburbanites and rural blue collar people. They have forgotten how to campaign. When you go to urban areas, you talk about how your policies appeal to urban people, and when you go to rural areas, you talk about the things that benefit those people there. The huge issue is people who might vote Dem but are bigots. Those people are hard to win over and will lean GOP more often than not. I laugh at this, because you hear from GOP supporters all of the time that they don't play identity politics but they do. Their identity politics is I'm white and the riff raff is taking over the country. I don't want any riff raff! 

Also, there is a special place in hell for Libertarians. We should give them the area between San Bernadino, CA and Phoenix, AZ and bordered on the south by Mexico and the north by Lake Mead as their own little country and let them go play Hunger Games there. I'm sure they'll tell us how wonderful their independent state is and how everything works so perfectly and it is a utopia. FREE MARKET FTW!!!! 

 

 

 

You and I are so much on the same page all of a sudden. Haha

I mean, we're *all* actually on the same side here, and want the same things. 

[Reddy]

9 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

Maybe.  It might be working on a race to race basis, but it was a giant failure at the national level.

It's also one of my fears.  One party filled with complete nationalist psychos and the other being the socially liberal wall street party.  It would be like if England only had the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP.

Right, so my view is worry about that once the nationalist psychos are no longer in power. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Reddy said:

For the record though, y'all are moving the goalposts. His argument was that MOST establishment Dems are bad on the economy/wall street issues, and that's simply not true.

And yet HRC/Obama were perceived to be more in bed with Wall Street (slightly) than Trump in 2016.  Same with Bill  Clinton and Rubin/Summers.

How is that even possible?

[Reddy]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

And yet HRC/Obama were perceived to be more in bed with Wall Street (slightly) than Trump in 2016.  Same with Bill  Clinton and Rubin/Summers.

How is that even possible?

Cognitive dissonance 

[greg775]

If Bernie does run it's gonna be a repeat. He'll get backstabbed by his own party and split it. Trump will love that.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

If Bernie does run it's gonna be a repeat. He'll get backstabbed by his own party and split it. Trump will love that.

Bernie by his own choice isnt part of the Democratic party so hard to stab him in the back. 

[Reddy]

18 minutes ago, greg775 said:

If Bernie does run it's gonna be a repeat. He'll get backstabbed by his own party and split it. Trump will love that.

Beyond the obvious point Badger made, this is exactly why he shouldn't run.