2018 Democrats thread

[Jack Parkman]

Even if Bernie does run again, I voted for him last time but I won't again. He was 75 in 2016, I think he's too old. It is incredibly rare to stay as sharp as he is now forever as one ages. 

[caulfield12]

The biggest question to me is if SCOTUS keeps moving to the right...and multi-national US corporations become these "too big to fail global behemoths," (along with the Big Banks), then how are the Dems going to fight to prevent the continued hollowing out of the middle class?

Republicans don't see this very clearly because of the short term concentration on profits and exploiting labor markets, but eventually there won't be enough US consumers to buy products...and government policy and Supreme Court decisions will essentially be prioritizing the interests of corporations selling at max profit to buyers in China, India, Indonesia and Brazil, for example.

These "progressive" ideas are always seen as free giveaways, but without subsidizing those who work/are under-educated so that they can meet their families' essential needs, then the next generation in America will continue to do worse than the preceding ones and it will be hard to imagine reversing that cycle for anyone not in the Top 20% of income earners.  And it's still yet to be determined whether AI/VR/AR/robotics will be a net gainer for the middle classes...without Universal Basic Income or taxes on corporations (like they're doing in Seattle in the battle over affordable housing), it's going to be rougher and rougher out there in the future.

Seemingly, the only "alternative" solution (beyond government/private investments in green tech, education and infrastructure) is more "high quality" immigrants, which the current administration is obviously against (well, an exception for Eastern European models.)

Edited May 25, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/24/tom-perez-andrew-cuomo-primary-endorsements-607799

Here we go again, Tom Perez infuriates liberals (aka progressive) with Andrew Cuomo endorsement in NY governor's race

[Dam8610]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The biggest question to me is if SCOTUS keeps moving to the right...and multi-national US corporations become these "too big to fail global behemoths," (along with the Big Banks), then how are the Dems going to fight to prevent the continued hollowing out of the middle class?

Republicans don't see this very clearly because of the short term concentration on profits and exploiting labor markets, but eventually there won't be enough US consumers to buy products...and government policy and Supreme Court decisions will essentially be prioritizing the interests of corporations selling at max profit to buyers in China, India, Indonesia and Brazil, for example.

These "progressive" ideas are always seen as free giveaways, but without subsidizing those who work/are under-educated so that they can meet their families' essential needs, then the next generation in America will continue to do worse than the preceding ones and it will be hard to imagine reversing that cycle for anyone not in the Top 20% of income earners.  And it's still yet to be determined whether AI/VR/AR/robotics will be a net gainer for the middle classes...without Universal Basic Income or taxes on corporations (like they're doing in Seattle in the battle over affordable housing), it's going to be rougher and rougher out there in the future.

Seemingly, the only "alternative" solution (beyond government/private investments in green tech, education and infrastructure) is more "high quality" immigrants, which the current administration is obviously against (well, an exception for Eastern European models.)

The next Democratic president may need to pull an FDR and expand the court to 11 justices.

[caulfield12]

After the Merrick Garland debacle, and with how Trump's packing the court with idealogues and fanatics, ANYTHING seems possible at this point...not to mention killing the "blue slip" tradition and all the arguments about the filibuster.

[Reddy]

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/24/tom-perez-andrew-cuomo-primary-endorsements-607799

Here we go again, Tom Perez infuriates liberals (aka progressive) with Andrew Cuomo endorsement in NY governor's race

This is clickbait and I'm a little disappointed in Politico.

Hardly anyone is furious. The primary was over. Cuomo was nominated. To endorse the Democratic nominee for Governor shouldn't be at ALL controversial. And it isn't. This is not a thing.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Reddy

[caulfield12]

55 minutes ago, Reddy said:

This is clickbait and I'm a little disappointed in Politico.

Hardly anyone is furious. The primary was over. Cuomo was nominated. To endorse the Democratic nominee for Governor shouldn't be at ALL controversial. And it isn't. This is not a thing.

The only thing I DON'T get is why even weigh in when she realistically DOESN'T have a shot?

That will just make it seem, once again, that the establishment is interfering/tipping the balance in one way or another.  Hillary endorsing is one thing, but Perez doesn't need to get involved...or why does he feel the need, is the question?

https://www.amny.com/news/elections/new-york-governor-race-1.17681878

The race for New York governor is picking up steam, as a new poll released Wednesday shows incumbent Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo with a commanding lead over the competition.

According to the Quinnipiac University Poll, 50 percent of New Yorkers surveyed would vote for Cuomo over Democratic primary challenger Cynthia Nixon. The actress and education advocate from Manhattan garnered 28 percent of votes from those polled, with 22 percent abstaining. 

"Actress Cynthia Nixon is a nuisance to Gov. Andrew Cuomo as he seeks a third term, but at this stage she is not running strong enough to make either the Democratic primary or general election challenge successful,” Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll, said.

Edited May 25, 2018 by caulfield12

[Jack Parkman]

Honestly, even if I agreed with that persons policies more than their opposition, I wouldn't vote for someone with zero experience in government. Only in primaries though. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[GoSox05]

9 hours ago, Reddy said:

This is clickbait and I'm a little disappointed in Politico.

Hardly anyone is furious. The primary was over. Cuomo was nominated. To endorse the Democratic nominee for Governor shouldn't be at ALL controversial. And it isn't. This is not a thing.

Primary is to be held on 9/13.

Also, Cuomo is garbage.

[StrangeSox]

Cuomo worked with conservatives to have enough Democrats splinter off to create their own conservative group so that Democrats couldn't actually get control of the NY Congress. He's beyond garbage.

[StrangeSox]

ugh

 

 

[GoSox05]

 

[Nokona]

11 hours ago, Reddy said:

This is clickbait and I'm a little disappointed in Politico.

Hardly anyone is furious. The primary was over. Cuomo was nominated. To endorse the Democratic nominee for Governor shouldn't be at ALL controversial. And it isn't. This is not a thing.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Maybe that lanyard has prevented oxygen from reaching your brain.

[Reddy]

 

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Maybe that lanyard has prevented oxygen from reaching your brain.

Lol.

I'm not a Cuomo fan in the least. But I'm even LESS of a fan of this celebrity wants to be a politician game and decides trashing Dems is the way to do it.

I would LOVE a viable challenger to Cuomo. Cynthia Nixon is not it.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Reddy

[StrangeSox]

Nixon's been involved with NY politics for year. Trashing Cuomo is good and should be encouraged and done by everyone because he's terrible.

A viable challenger to Cuomo is going to "trash [bad] Dems" like Cuomo, so I don't think you actually want a viable challenger. You seem reflexively against any criticism of Democrats from the left.

 

You also didn't acknowledge that your central claim, that the "primary was over," is completely wrong. Perez broke DNC guidelines to endorse Cuomo in the middle of a primary. He did it without informing Ellison ahead of time. Why do that? Why should the progressive base continue to trust him?

Edited May 25, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Reddy]

Lol. Excuse me. He is the Democratic Party's official nominee for the Governorship. Shocking that the head of the DNC would endorse him.

[GoSox05]

Is the Republican party as anti-primary as the Democrats? 

Seems very undemocratic to just always support the status quo.  Anytime someone even remotely tries to challenge even some of the worst parts of the Democratic party they are met with hostility.

Like imagine contently yelling that we must not challenge people like Cuomo or Lipinski. 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by GoSox05

[BigSqwert]

10 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Lol. Excuse me. He is the Democratic Party's official nominee for the Governorship. Shocking that the head of the DNC would endorse him.

I seriously hope you don't use the same condescending, smarter than everyone in the room, dismissive attitude when trying to help your Iowan candidate get elected.  I can imagine it would be a big turnoff to potential voters.

[StrangeSox]

11 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Lol. Excuse me. He is the Democratic Party's official nominee for the Governorship. Shocking that the head of the DNC would endorse him.

The primary isn't over as you incorrectly stated. The DNC has an explicit stance on not endorsing during primaries that Perez overrode. Cuomo is garbage that works with Republicans to keep Democratics from controlling the Senate in NY.

Is there any garbage incumbent dem you wouldn't 100% defend from attacks from the left?

[Reddy]

 

The primary isn't over as you incorrectly stated. The DNC has an explicit stance on not endorsing during primaries that Perez overrode. Cuomo is garbage that works with Republicans to keep Democratics from controlling the Senate in NY.

Is there any garbage incumbent dem you wouldn't 100% defend from attacks from the left?

This cycle? No. Once Trump's gone and we're in the majority? Absolutely.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cuomo-overwhelmingly-beats-cynthia-nixon-democratic-convention-article-1.4005644 

Cuomo - like him or not (and I don't) - is the Democratic Party Nominee for Governor in New York.

[Reddy]

I'll agree that it was an unnecessary move and probably not a shrewd one on the part of Perez, but it's not a scandal, and after he helped deliver Alabama for Democrats I have a hard time getting too upset about endorsing someone who's already won the party's nomination. Just me. The Bernie folks are seizing on this because they know OR and Bernie's brand are failing across the country and they're desperate.

[StrangeSox]

Cuomo actively prevents Dems from being in the majority in NYS and there's no realistic path where someone who doesn't suck as hard as he does (litreally any registered Democrat in the state lol) would lose a general election that Cuomo would win.

 

e: your obsession with Sanders is rearing again so I'm going to duck out

Edited May 25, 2018 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, Reddy said:

I'll agree that it was an unnecessary move and probably not a shrewd one on the part of Perez, but it's not a scandal, and after he helped deliver Alabama for Democrats I have a hard time getting too upset about endorsing someone who's already won the party's nomination. Just me. The Bernie folks are seizing on this because they know OR and Bernie's brand are failing across the country and they're desperate.

I think “deliver AL for the Dems” was 90-95% based on the fact Moore is a pedophile lunatic...any halfway normal GOP candidate and they lose quite handily.

Just like Ossof should win most of the time under the conditions he ran in...Dems finally learned this hard  lesson not to weigh in and let it be a “local race” with Lamb.  That was the only really impressive win, nevertheless, Saccone lost twice now this year and was also a poor fundraiser/campaigner.

 

[GoSox05]

Yeah, I'm happy Jones won in AL, but let's face it, that had little to do with any strategy.  Roy Moore is a child molester and he still almost won. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by GoSox05

[StrangeSox]

Jones and his help drove out the black vote in historic numbers, which was a deliberate effort. It was good strategy and it worked. Perez intentionally kept a low profile to avoid distracting nationalization of the race. Credit is due there.

 

But here's why primarying bad Dems is good (have seen similar results with Lipinski so far)

 

 

If we followed Reddy's advice, no one would ever challenge these people. There's always a threat, always a reason to "wait for later" or to wait for a better opportunity. What's missed with that is that when you keep propping up bad politicians who want to entrench the status quo, those opportunities won't ever even come because you'll be facing backlash from the failure to get what people want done. If whatever blue wave materializes is entirely centrist Dems obsessed with decorum and bipartisanship rather than pushing popular policy and opposing the right ward sprint of the GOP at all costs, people will be all the more frustrated and disillusioned in 2020.