2018 Democrats thread

[ptatc]

56 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

The VA is pretty popular and the recent privatization attempts have all sputtered out.

Also, the structure of the VA and the unique needs of the population it serves are not really directly comparable to a single-payer health insurance system. There aren't many people clamoring for an NHS-style fully nationalized healthcare system in the US. If you keep comparing something like Medicare4All to the VA, you keep showing that you don't even understanding what M4A is.

The scenario is also true in many countries with government healthcare. My friends in England want nothing more than to move up the ladder in their companies so they can get private healthcare. The dliemma is that these promotions come with more management and less patient care. So there is a trade off.

[StrangeSox]

I actually do know a decent number but the plural of anecdote isn't "data." There's also nothing at all that prevents veterans from not using the VA. They are always free to use the same private health insurance system as the rest of us. 

If you want a government program to compare the proposed M4A to, compare it to...Medicare. Don't compare it to a dissimilar fully nationalized system where hospitals are run by the VA and doctors are direct government employees who treat a population with very unique medical needs.

edit: England's NHS is more akin to the VA system than what a M4A system would be. If you want to look for cross-country comparisons, you need to look at countries that have universal healthcare access programs, not countries that have fully nationalized healthcare systems (are there any besides UK these days?)

Edited September 4, 2018 by StrangeSox

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

I actually do know a decent number but the plural of anecdote isn't "data." There's also nothing at all that prevents veterans from not using the VA. They are always free to use the same private health insurance system as the rest of us. 

If you want a government program to compare the proposed M4A to, compare it to...Medicare. Don't compare it to a dissimilar fully nationalized system where hospitals are run by the VA and doctors are direct government employees who treat a population with very unique medical needs.

edit: England's NHS is more akin to the VA system than what a M4A system would be. If you want to look for cross-country comparisons, you need to look at countries that have universal healthcare access programs, not countries that have fully nationalized healthcare systems (are there any besides UK these days?)

I believe the healthcare in France is essentially nationalized. I think It's around 80% funded by the government. 

[StrangeSox]

It is funded by the government but hospitals are not run by the French government and doctors aren't government employees like they are with the VA or the NHS. There are probably some public clinics but that's true here, too.

There's a major difference between what the NHS/VA does and what a government-funded healthcare system looks like. We would still have private doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc. under a universal healthcare system. I'd still go see my same primary care physician and still go to the same nearby hospital, and neither would be directly owned and operated by the government.

[ptatc]

5 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

It is funded by the government but hospitals are not run by the French government and doctors aren't government employees like they are with the VA or the NHS. There are probably some public clinics but that's true here, too.

There's a major difference between what the NHS/VA does and what a government-funded healthcare system looks like. We would still have private doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc. under a universal healthcare system. I'd still go see my same primary care physician and still go to the same nearby hospital, and neither would be directly owned and operated by the government.

Yeah, I talked to my buddy in France and he explained the difference. He isn't a government employee. Like I said before the cost is next to nothing for his patients but the service is very limited compared to what we get here.

[Reddy]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You don't know any Vets then.

That's a whole different problem - they need to stop voting for Republicans if they want someone to help them.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Reddy said:

That's a whole different problem - they need to stop voting for Republicans if they want someone to help them.

The GOP has actually been the party to push for access to private care. The Dems have largely tried to keep them imprisoned in to the VA system. 

[StrangeSox]

9 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The GOP has actually been the party to push for access to private care. The Dems have largely tried to keep them imprisoned in to the VA system. 

Note that the "private care" model would essentially be Medicare 4 Vets, where the government funds health care costs but the care is administered by private doctors and practices! I'm glad you embrace an expansion of Medicare!

Aren't most vets' groups against this sort of privatization of the VA though?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

Note that the "private care" model would essentially be Medicare 4 Vets, where the government funds health care costs but the care is administered by private doctors and practices! I'm glad you embrace an expansion of Medicare!

Aren't most vets' groups against this sort of privatization of the VA though?

If it means giving vets a care option that isn't the VA model, I am all for it.  The idea is to give more options, not one.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/17/two-million-vets-get-taxpayer-funded-private-care/617101002/

also, veterans groups are for it, it is unions which are against it.

Montana Sen. Jon Tester, the highest-ranking Democrat on the Senate VA committee, said he supports the measure. So do more than two dozen veterans’ groups, including the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans and the American Legion.

 

“We strongly encourage the U.S. Senate to pass this important legislation swiftly,” said Denise Rohan, national commander for the Legion.

Federal employee unions are dead set against the bill and urged lawmakers to reject it.

[bmags]

one of the issues you see with the VA is the state by state variation of its quality matters. Massachusetts VA does well, virginia I believe as well. But other states crater.

In many respects I think moving VA to medicare benefits is beneficial, but I think that hits its limits in rural areas where quality/access is going to have same issue.

For stuff like this, providing mass purchasing power through national insurance/price setting seems so much more likely to increase outcomes than leaving it up to states.

[Reddy]

Awesome win by Ayanna Pressley last night. Turns out representation matters in 2018. Which is awesome.

Side note - this wasn't progressive vs. establishment/corporate Dem. Capuano was one of the most liberal/progressive members of the House. Apparently, people want representatives who look like them and share their life experience! What a concept.

[StrangeSox]

Honestly have completely lost count on how many white nationalists are running on the GOP ticket this year:

 

 

[ptatc]

29 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Honestly have completely lost count on how many white nationalists are running on the GOP ticket this year:

 

 

These comments are scary and just show ignorance, especially about the children. Back in the 70s, multiracial kids did have a more difficult life. These things aren't really true in most places. There will always be some, but the number has decreased tremendously.

[StrangeSox]

He's a white nationalist. He doesn't care about whether a multiracial kid would face more difficulties. He doesn't want multiracial children to exist, or at least doesn't want white people to produce them. Gotta keep those white bloodlines pure.

[caulfield12]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/politics/mia-love-campaign-funds/index.html

Yet another Republican in trouble...this time Mia Love in Utah.

[Dam8610]

On 9/5/2018 at 10:06 AM, Reddy said:

Awesome win by Ayanna Pressley last night. Turns out representation matters in 2018. Which is awesome.

Side note - this wasn't progressive vs. establishment/corporate Dem. Capuano was one of the most liberal/progressive members of the House. Apparently, people want representatives who look like them and share their life experience! What a concept.

Economy is the third lowest priority on her agenda, so it makes sense that you support her.

[Reddy]

3 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Economy is the third lowest priority on her agenda, so it makes sense that you support her.

jesus christ. she's the fucking progressive haha how SPECIFIC is your litmus test?

[Reddy]

You probably also think spending all your energy talking about the "stop Bezos Act" during Kavanaugh's confirmation is also the correct choice.

[Dam8610]

9 hours ago, Reddy said:

jesus christ. she's the fucking progressive haha how SPECIFIC is your litmus test?

I don't have a litmus test, I'm just sick of Democrats who trade away all of our economic rights such as collective bargaining, progressive taxation, not allowing money to be treated as speech for political purposes, or really any of the priorities FDR laid out in the second bill of rights, in exchange for "social progress", most of which just gets rolled back when the Kochs spend enough money to get their political lackeys into power. The only way out of that death spiral that I see is a political party that prioritizes economic rights and freedoms above all else. I want that to be the Democratic party, but every time anyone comes along on the Democratic ticket who wants to prioritize those issues, people like you call them racist and distract from what they're trying to accomplish all because they're not prioritizing the issues you think they should.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Dam8610

[GoSox05]

10 hours ago, Reddy said:

You probably also think spending all your energy talking about the "stop Bezos Act" during Kavanaugh's confirmation is also the correct choice.

Hey, I wonder who this is about. 

It is a known fact that politicians can only talk about one issue at a time.

[StrangeSox]

I think that was poor timing on Sanders' part because it was obviously going to be overshadowed, but then again there's a new shitstorm every week so you never know.

[GoSox05]

I don't know, they are both important issues and Sanders isn't on the judiciary committee.  He spent a lot of time talking about Kavanaugh.

I've seen Sanders criticized a ton for not focusing 100% of his energy, 100% of the time to Kavanaugh, but little criticism of some Dem senators who are probably going to vote for him. 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by GoSox05

[GoSox05]

Poll: Kavanaugh isn't a key issue for undecided voters in red states

For when Reddy makes the claim that someone like Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp has to vote for Kavanaugh.

[Reddy]

11 hours ago, GoSox05 said:

Poll: Kavanaugh isn't a key issue for undecided voters in red states

For when Reddy makes the claim that someone like Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp has to vote for Kavanaugh.

This is a situation where I think they need to hold the line. Normally I'm on the other side of that issue - not this time. 

[caulfield12]

Heitkamp now has a 60% chance at losing, regardless of how she votes.

I would argue Manchin's at 75-80% winning.

Haven't seen anything recently on Donnelly and McCaskill/Tester, but the latter two SEEM safe for the moment (despite Trump waging a personal way out there in MT.)  The Missouri situation has been a mess for the GOP for months now, between the governor and actual candidate.