BlackSox13 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Heyman saying four are heading to Pitt with Moran and Musgrove being the main pieces. Luhnow's patience is paying off big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hey, something big finally happened. Yay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 05:35 PM) Heyman saying four are heading to Pitt with Moran and Musgrove being the main pieces. Luhnow's patience is paying off big time. No kidding. I didn’t particularly like the Musgrove, Martes and Tucker for Q proposed trade, this would have made me gag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 BA ranked Moran as the 9th best prospect headed into this season. Guessing they don’t grade him well at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 07:41 PM) No kidding. I didn’t particularly like the Musgrove, Martes and Tucker for Q proposed trade, this would have made me gag. Cole was hurt and bad in 2016, a key part of the Pirates being uncompetitive that year, and was just mediocre in 2017. Stuff is still there, but imagine trading for Rodon right now, if Rodon was 2 years from free agency and being paid $6.75 million. He's a good #3 starter right now 2 years from free agency, with an injury risk. There is a decent chance we look at this trade next AS break and say "Hey, Musgrove is outpitching Cole". Especially with the Pirates pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Good trade for both teams. Like it a lot for the stro's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 If we traded Rodon for Musgrove and Moran I’d say we completely wasted an asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 06:58 PM) If we traded Rodon for Musgrove and Moran I’d say we completely wasted an asset. What if, in 2020, he was still struggling and had been injured for 1/2 a year beforehand? That's where Cole is right now. Remove the extra years of control - if we had Rodon for only 2 more years right now how would you feel about this deal for Rodon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 That would mean Rodon would have never had a single good year in his career, unlike Cole who had 3 very good years. Musgrove is a guy you trade for when you just want a team around 80 wins so you can posture as competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Unbelievably light return, at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 07:08 PM) That would mean Rodon would have never had a single good year in his career, unlike Cole who had 3 very good years. Musgrove is a guy you trade for when you just want a team around 80 wins so you can posture as competitive. In my eyes Cole had 1 full, good year. The 2 other years, at age 22-23, he only pitched 117 and 138 innings. I'm hoping that several of our guys outperform those by a lot this year, and this year doesn't matter for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 To the Astros, what they gave up were largely spare parts....they had what they traded covered. But there still was some talent in what they gave up. Musgrove can be a good 4 and a very good 5 on a contending team. That has value. And the Pirates obviously wanted ML ready players, so the ceiling won't be as high as if you trade for A ball players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Pirates really are a disaster. Shouldn’t have picked a clear direction a few years ago instead of playing the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I would love to poll what people thought Cole would get from Astros earlier in week to now, and hear these “actually trading a young cost controlled pitcher on a two year contract in an environment of expensive 30+ year old free agents that no one wants to give more than 3 years to, getting a backend starter and corner infielder is actually a great return!” Especially when the pirates held him at deadline and last offseason when they almost certainly get a haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 The situation with Kang really messed them up. Then not being able to decide on McCutcheon and having one of their star outfielders suspended. For their long term, the Pirates are betting on Musgrove being cheaper and better for 5-6 years and Moran being a 2-3 WAR contributor at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 06:26 PM) To the Astros, what they gave up were largely spare parts....they had what they traded covered. But there still was some talent in what they gave up. Musgrove can be a good 4 and a very good 5 on a contending team. That has value. And the Pirates obviously wanted ML ready players, so the ceiling won't be as high as if you trade for A ball players. The last paragraph is what is baffling to me. Pitching is proving expensive for a team like the pirates. But why target Moran? I would rather have the verlander trade honestly. Much rather Perez than Musgrove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 06:41 PM) The last paragraph is what is baffling to me. Pitching is proving expensive for a team like the pirates. But why target Moran? I would rather have the verlander trade honestly. Much rather Perez than Musgrove. Because David Freese or Sean Rodriguez have limited upside at this point in their careers...and Moran will be cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Passan sums up well: https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/952339574725935104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 What were the Pirates to do, hold onto him and have him get hurt again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 This MIGHT turn into a good trade down the line, but man do I feel for Pirates fans. Except for Rumbunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogsplash31 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Seems a little light, but coming off of two disappointing seasons, the Pirates were selling low anyway. The Pirates may still get two mid rotation starters and a average third baseman out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 08:45 PM) Passan sums up well: https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/952339574725935104 This is something the White Sox are going to have to figure out at some point - what do you do when frontline talent is 2 years from free agency and not behaving like a star? Hold onto them and hope they become a frontline player and you're 1 year from free agency or take the best deal you can? Heck, that's the same scenario we have right now with Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Wonder what fans in Arlington and Seattle are thinking with this news...? They’re both in no man’s land. Angels probably need to shoot for WC against AL East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Moran is the highest upside piece the Pirates got. He's the kind of player I'd like to see the Sox make a move for as they try to cover the few areas in which they don't have budding prospects and start creating a team out of young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2018 -> 07:50 PM) This is something the White Sox are going to have to figure out at some point - what do you do when frontline talent is 2 years from free agency and not behaving like a star? Hold onto them and hope they become a frontline player and you're 1 year from free agency or take the best deal you can? Heck, that's the same scenario we have right now with Garcia. And Abreu, in a way. We used to argue it was much better to have the surplus in pitching depth, and deal from that. Now, it’s not so clear because of the uncertainty over Rodon, and his likely being our version of a Gerrit Cole situation a couple of years down the line due to Boras. On the plus side, Delmonico, Burger, Rutherford and Collins all could potentially fill the shoes at RF/DH/1B. But we still need Robert, Moncada and Jimenez to be studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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