Soxbadger Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, The Grinder said: Me thinks the left is taking a chance with the logic is We have him, heres the smoking gun which may be true....the risk is if they dont have him, this whole thing will begin to wear thin on the sitting on the fence voters which may turn them further from the dems If he did break the law, he needs to be called out on it and pay the price. If not, trump has every reason to continue his accusations of a witch hunt This isnt about left and rights, its about justice. The left arent in charge of any branch of govt. The judiciary is bringing charges against people they believe commit crimes. So far (to be the best of my knowledge) not one person they have brought charges against has been acquitted. That means that the judiciary is currently "batting" 1.000. A witch hunt implies there is no basis for the investigation. Unless you are completely blinded by Trump support, its impossible to not acknowledge that there is a basis. The following is undisputed: Part of the Trump campaign met with Russian agents about "dirt" on Clinton. The people associated with Trump misled the public about the meeting. Once the evidence came out, Trump stated that it was a meeting to get dirt on Clinton and that is okay. The reason that is important is because it seems like a cover up. People dont cover up things that are legal. If you dont believe that the FBI/judiciary have a responsibility to get to the bottom of what happened, then you dont really believe in the American system of govt. This is about Dems/Republicans, this is about whether crimes were committed. And even if its bad "politically" for Democrats, I do not think they should assist in criminals getting away with crimes for the sake of winning seats in an election. At some point we have to do whats right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Just remember - current Department of Justice policy says that a sitting president will not be indicted while serving in that office even though he is criminally liable for his actions as a co-conspirator in a successful commission of election fraud. If his DOJ decided to change that policy, that decision would then wind up in the hands of the Supreme Court, where he specifically nominated the people who would hear that case. The Congress is likely to confirm that person starting in about 2 weeks. Therefore, he will *NOT* pay a price for conspiring to commit election fraud, at least not while serving as President, not because he did not conspire to commit electoral fraud, but because he is the president. He is shielded from liability for his own criminal actions by the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 According to an alleged juror only 1 person held out on the other 10 counts in the Manafort case. Also they completely disregarded all of gates testimony. So they were pretty favorable to Manafortnabd still found him guilty. Supposedly the next case is the stronger one, so that doesn't bode well for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Soxbadger said: According to an alleged juror only 1 person held out on the other 10 counts in the Manafort case. Also they completely disregarded all of gates testimony. So they were pretty favorable to Manafortnabd still found him guilty. Supposedly the next case is the stronger one, so that doesn't bode well for him. One of the jurors was full-blown MAGA "witch hunt" who went in wanting to find Manafort innocent...but ended up voting guilty on all 18 counts. That's how much of a blatant criminal Manafort is. And if he hadn't gotten himself into the Trump campaign and then helped Trump win, none of this would ever have been prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) Trump is bringing more white nationalist talking points into the forefront, thanks again to Fox News. This time it's about the long-running and long-debunked claims of "white genocide" in South Africa. Expect to see him going back to the racism well more often if the pressure keeps building. He also had one hell of an interview on Fox this morning. we live in the dumbest and worst timeline Edited August 23, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 This is too flip of an analogy, but imagine being the owner of the white sox and being able to go downstairs and hear the scouting reports and decisions being made by the team and instead getting all of your information from like Harold Reynolds (and then demanding the team adjust based off of that analysis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 4 hours ago, StrangeSox said: Trump is bringing more white nationalist talking points into the forefront, thanks again to Fox News. This time it's about the long-running and long-debunked claims of "white genocide" in South Africa. Expect to see him going back to the racism well more often if the pressure keeps building. He also had one hell of an interview on Fox this morning. we live in the dumbest and worst timeline Truth isn't truth. Felonies aren't crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Grassley and Graham are both signaling that they're open to Trump firing sessions after the midterms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Truth isn't truth. Felonies aren't crimes. Misdemeanor crimes, like coming to this country illegally 25 years ago, are definitely zero tolerance. Conspiracy, fraud, and obstruction of justice are debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 he's made it clear many times over the past few weeks that the only thing Trump values is loyalty to Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/jeff-sessions-donald-trump/index.html Quote While I am Attorney General, the actions of the Department of Justice will not be improperly influenced by political considerations. I demand the highest standards, and where they are not met, I take action. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, BigSqwert said: Misdemeanor crimes, like coming to this country illegally 25 years ago, are definitely zero tolerance. Conspiracy, fraud, and obstruction of justice are debatable. Republicans investigate Benghazi 7 times. Her e-mails need to be investigated until the end of time. Republicans on Michael Cohen, under oath, saying that Donald Trump directed him to commit a felony? Nothing to see here guys! Let's let the courts sort this one out! The hypocrisy is staggering, and they never get punished for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, BigSqwert said: Misdemeanor crimes, like coming to this country illegally 25 years ago, are definitely zero tolerance. Conspiracy, fraud, and obstruction of justice are debatable. Flipping should also be against the law. Believe me. Manafort didn't cave. He's a really good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 The last couple of days Trump sounds more like a Mafia Don than the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The last couple of days Trump sounds more like a Mafia Don than the President. Days? (I'm surprised you didn't expect this post in reply). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Days? (I'm surprised you didn't expect this post in reply). I always expect snark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I always expect snark. About the only thing new I can see out of the past few days is his idea that it should be illegal to flip on someone. Bashing Sessions, demanding loyalty, praising Manafort for not cracking - he's been doing all that for months to years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The last couple of days Trump sounds more like a Mafia Don than the President. Irrespective of where we may stand on certain issues, I do respect the fact that you havent just fallen in line like the rest of the Republican party. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 So in a completely surprising turn of events, Trump has been asking his lawyers about pardoning manafort lately, and they've convinced him to wait until after Mueller is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: So in a completely surprising turn of events, Trump has been asking his lawyers about pardoning manafort lately, and they've convinced him to wait until after Mueller is done. Everyone realizes why right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Everyone realizes why right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Nope. If Manafort is Pardoned, then he no longer has the 5th amendment to protect him against the right of self-incrimination. He can therefore be subpoenaed and compelled to testify to anything he knows relevant to that investigation. He cannot refuse to answer questions without being found in Contempt of Court and sent back to prison. If he is pardoned, he will have to tell Mueller everything he knows. He cannot be preemptively pardoned, so he would have to be sent back to jail and found in contempt again before Trump could pardon him for that. Once Trump then pardons him for contempt charges, he could again be compelled to testify and if he refused to testify - again in contempt and back to jail, continuing the cycle. I would almost pay to see it, honestly. The President engaging in a coverup by pardoning the person who is compelled to testify against him over and over and over and over and Manafort constantly staying in prison for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) Yes, I think that's the core of the "witness tampering" aspect southpaw mentioned there. Ford pardoned Nixon for any crime he committed or may have taken part in during his Presidency. Trump could issue pardons faster than new charges or orders of contempt could be drawn up, and I see no reason he couldn't issue a blanket pardon for Manafort extending into the future if the legal logic of Nixon's pardon is sound. e: if he really wanted to, he could always pardon him, bring him on AF1, and fly him to a country without an extradition treaty. yeah, sure, it's completely absurd, but Trump's already pardoned two other political hack idiots, plus the guys who sparked off the whole Malhuer occupation, so Edited August 23, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 You cannot issue a blanket pardon for crimes that a person hasn't committed yet, that's not a pardon it's a license to commit a future crime. He would have to issue a pardon every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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