**President Trump 2018 Thread**

[southsider2k5]

It's just such a weird (but normal) deflection because the post you quoted specifically said Democrats shouldn't try to make this some sort of campaigning issue? And also they're really not?

 

I think you actually believe that.

[StrangeSox]

Post some evidence to the contrary, then. That whole story seems to have died pretty quickly, swamped out by the next absurd bulls*** coming from the Trump WH. "Trump is a sleazeball" isn't really going to convince anyone to dislike Trump more than they already do, or for those who like Trump to like him less.

[southsider2k5]

Post some evidence to the contrary, then. That whole story seems to have died pretty quickly, swamped out by the next absurd bulls*** coming from the Trump WH. "Trump is a sleazeball" isn't really going to convince anyone to dislike Trump more than they already do, or for those who like Trump to like him less.

 

Repeated stories about it means the story "died"? That is about as bad as the people who scream "WHY ISN"T THE MEDIA COVERING X" along with a link to a media story about said item.

[StrangeSox]

It largely died off in 24 hours until the thing about Cohen's claims that he personally paid for it with zero knowledge of the campaign or Trump came out. What Dems are actually talking about this?

 

e: good job on successfully deflecting this from "bad things Trump has done that his supporters will excuse or embrace and may actually have been illegal" to "DEMS ARE HYPOCRITES!!!" though

 

V V V yeah, that's the main angle, how ridiculously shallow and fake "family values" conservative political Christianity has shown itself to be. Trump is the symbol of damn near everything they claim to oppose, hedonistic and proud about it throughout his life, but they love him.

Edited February 14, 2018 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

Not bad, just opportunistic hypocrites.

Almost like running on family values and christianity while conveniently representing the exact opposite. Or running on anti-immigration and America First while using immigrant workers, importing your wife and having most of your money tied up in foreign assets.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Veterans Affairs chief Shulkin, staff misled ethics officials about European trip, report finds

 

Veterans Affairs Secretary David J. Shulkin’s chief of staff doctored an email and made false statements to create a pretext for taxpayers to cover expenses for the secretary’s wife on a 10-day trip to Europe last summer, the agency’s inspector general has found.

 

Vivieca Wright Simpson, VA’s third-most senior official, altered language in an email from an aide coordinating the trip to make it appear that Shulkin was receiving an award from the Danish government — then used the award to justify paying for his wife’s travel, Inspector General Michael J. Missal said in a report released Wednesday. VA paid $4,312 for her airfare.

 

The account of how the government paid travel expenses for the secretary’s wife is one finding in an unsparing investigation that concluded that Shulkin and his staff misled agency ethics officials and the public about key details of the trip. Shulkin also improperly accepted a gift of tickets to a Wimbledon tennis match worth thousands of dollars, the investigation found, and directed an aide coordinating the trip to act as what the report called a “personal travel concierge” to him and his wife.

 

“Although the [inspector general’s office] cannot determine the value VA gained from the Secretary and his delegation’s three and a half days of meetings in Copenhagen and London at a cost of at least $122,334, the investigation revealed serious derelictions by VA personnel,” the watchdog concluded.

 

 

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

The left impeached Clinton?

Oh, are you saying the right had a huge problem with extramarital affairs? Cool, they must be ok with it now. Seems hypocritical.

[Dick Allen]

Veterans Affairs chief Shulkin, staff misled ethics officials about European trip, report finds

Trump only hires the best.

[StrangeSox]

Pruitt's also been flying First Class regularly on taxpayer money out of "security concerns." He has a large 24/7 security force around him that is costing us boatloads of money.

[southsider2k5]

It largely died off in 24 hours until the thing about Cohen's claims that he personally paid for it with zero knowledge of the campaign or Trump came out. What Dems are actually talking about this?

 

e: good job on successfully deflecting this from "bad things Trump has done that his supporters will excuse or embrace and may actually have been illegal" to "DEMS ARE HYPOCRITES!!!" though

 

V V V yeah, that's the main angle, how ridiculously shallow and fake "family values" conservative political Christianity has shown itself to be. Trump is the symbol of damn near everything they claim to oppose, hedonistic and proud about it throughout his life, but they love him.

 

I would say the same for everyone else here too.

[southsider2k5]

Let me ask you this. What if this story came out in 2010, a year after Obama had taken office. In the year 2000, while married to Michelle, Barack had an affair with a porn star and during the election of 2008, his lawyer paid her off using hush money.

 

Would it be getting the same kind of coverage this Trump story is getting now? Or would it be 10,000x bigger?

 

I think you are wrongly connecting the observation of hypocrisy with some real deep connection to the issue that is causing the hypocrisy in my case. This is yet another one of those issues where everyone flipped opinions based on what party is holding the Presidency. As is typical, opinions are fluid based on what is best for the party, and not any real ethos.

[StrangeSox]

Trump threatens to veto any DACA bill that doesn't drastically limit legal immigration. Just last month, he held that widely praised bipartisan meeting in which he promised to sign any bill Congress sent him.

 

 

A major DREAMERS advocacy group is also telling Democrats that Trump's immigration demands aren't worth the price, too.

 

“If they’re going to demand the Stephen Miller wish list, Democrats should say no,” Greisa Martinez Rosas, the director of advocacy and policy for United We Dream, told me this morning. “There’s a line for how much we will allow Trump and Miller to extract for our protection.”

 

In other words, because it would put pit the dreamers against many current undocumented immigrants (including their own parents) and against future ones, many dreamers themselves do not want Democrats to pay this price, even if it upends their own lives. If that doesn’t drive home the fundamental imbalance of this situation, then nothing will. But regardless, it really may come to that.

Edited February 14, 2018 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

I think you are wrongly connecting the observation of hypocrisy with some real deep connection to the issue that is causing the hypocrisy in my case. This is yet another one of those issues where everyone flipped opinions based on what party is holding the Presidency. As is typical, opinions are fluid based on what is best for the party, and not any real ethos.

Would you say both parties rely on the conservative religious vote and platform?

[Dick Allen]

Would you say both parties rely on the conservative religious vote and platform?

Back during the convention they were wondering what would have been said about Obama if he had been standing on a stage with 5 kids from 3 different women. Is there a bigger hypocrite in the world, other than Trump himself, than Mike Pence?

Edited February 14, 2018 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

Back during the convention they were wondering what would have been said about Obama if he had been standing on a stage with 5 kids from 3 different women. Is there a bigger hypocrite in the world, other than Trump himself, than Mike Pence?

I get thinking that Dems or people in general are only enraged when its the opposite party doing something, but the very concept of family values are woven deep into the thread of the conservative platform. Adultery, divorce, and prostitution goes directly against that.

[RockRaines]

I will say it is surprising that Trump's alleged affair isn't getting more air time. Maybe it's just a product of the constant scandal, red alert, corporate news media blasting the sirens too often. Personally, I am not concerned with who a person is or isn't having sex with or rather who he/she should or shouldn't be having sex with. Especially when it pertains to something that happened years ago.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a leader has to be representative of their voters. At least that never seems to happen. Trump's base is religious. Should he also be religious? Obama's base was people receiving aid from the government. Should he have also received aid?

 

These people are politicians. It's their job to lie. Trump ran on running the government like a business, stopping the BS in the middle east and ending the pay for play capitalism. Trump has increased spending, emboldened the military and gave Saudi Arabia billions of weapons so they can bomb a cholera-ridden Saudi Arabia. Obama ran on protecting whistleblowers, closing Gitmo and ending the two wars. He attacked whistleblowers unlike any president before, Gitmo is still operating and he not only expanded the two wars but started another five.

 

These people are liars and scumbags by trade. It's not partisan, it's not right and it definitely shouldn't be surprising.

I agree with almost everything other than the bolded which is just an awful, inaccurate generalization. HOWEVER, if you stand for something and the guy you elected to stand for you simply lies or does the opposite, you should absolutely be upset.

Edited February 14, 2018 by RockRaines

[GoSox05]

I will say it is surprising that Trump's alleged affair isn't getting more air time. Maybe it's just a product of the constant scandal, red alert, corporate news media blasting the sirens too often. Personally, I am not concerned with who a person is or isn't having sex with or rather who he/she should or shouldn't be having sex with. Especially when it pertains to something that happened years ago.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a leader has to be representative of their voters. At least that never seems to happen. Trump's base is religious. Should he also be religious? Obama's base was people receiving aid from the government. Should he have also received aid?

These people are politicians. It's their job to lie. Trump ran on running the government like a business, stopping the BS in the middle east and ending the pay for play capitalism. Trump has increased spending, emboldened the military and gave Saudi Arabia billions of weapons so they can bomb a cholera-ridden Saudi Arabia. Obama ran on protecting whistleblowers, closing Gitmo and ending the two wars. He attacked whistleblowers unlike any president before, Gitmo is still operating and he not only expanded the two wars but started another five.

 

These people are liars and scumbags by trade. It's not partisan, it's not right and it definitely shouldn't be surprising.

 

 

Lmao.

[illinilaw08]

I get thinking that Dems or people in general are only enraged when its the opposite party doing something, but the very concept of family values are woven deep into the thread of the conservative platform. Adultery, divorce, and prostitution goes directly against that.

 

This.

 

It would be hypocritical for me to say that Donald Trump is unfit to lead because he had an affair (he's unfit to lead for a whole host of other reasons). Sex between consenting adults, I don't care!

 

But it is decidedly not hypocritical for me to point out that the the party of Family Values seems to only care about Family Values when they are campaigning against godless Democrats. Pointing out hypocrisy in someone else is not in itself hypocritical.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I will say it is surprising that Trump's alleged affair isn't getting more air time. Maybe it's just a product of the constant scandal, red alert, corporate news media blasting the sirens too often. Personally, I am not concerned with who a person is or isn't having sex with or rather who he/she should or shouldn't be having sex with. Especially when it pertains to something that happened years ago.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a leader has to be representative of their voters. At least that never seems to happen. Trump's base is religious. Should he also be religious? Obama's base was people receiving aid from the government. Should he have also received aid?

 

These people are politicians. It's their job to lie. Trump ran on running the government like a business, stopping the BS in the middle east and ending the pay for play capitalism. Trump has increased spending, emboldened the military and gave Saudi Arabia billions of weapons so they can bomb a cholera-ridden Saudi Arabia. Obama ran on protecting whistleblowers, closing Gitmo and ending the two wars. He attacked whistleblowers unlike any president before, Gitmo is still operating and he not only expanded the two wars but started another five.

 

These people are liars and scumbags by trade. It's not partisan, it's not right and it definitely shouldn't be surprising.

 

1) good lord.

2) this has been pointed out to you several times, but he ran on ending Iraq but re-engaging in Afghanistan. The narrative was that Bush had abandoned the "real fight" in Afghanistan in order to launch an unrelated and unjustified war in Iraq and that resources needed to be redirected back to where they should have stayed.

 

 

That aside, there was a big, big polling shift in evangelicals in 2016 regarding whether or not a politician needs to be a moral leader/reflect their values.

 

These large shifts are dwarfed, however, by the change among white evangelicals. In 2011, only 30 percent believed that personal immorality was consistent with an ethical performance of official duties. Today, 72 percent of white evangelicals—up an astounding 42 points–believe that the two can go together.

 

In a related change, fewer white evangelicals now believe that strong religious beliefs are very important for presidential candidates—49 percent today, versus 64 percent just five years ago.

[illinilaw08]

I will say it is surprising that Trump's alleged affair isn't getting more air time. Maybe it's just a product of the constant scandal, red alert, corporate news media blasting the sirens too often. Personally, I am not concerned with who a person is or isn't having sex with or rather who he/she should or shouldn't be having sex with. Especially when it pertains to something that happened years ago.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a leader has to be representative of their voters. At least that never seems to happen. Trump's base is religious. Should he also be religious? Obama's base was people receiving aid from the government. Should he have also received aid?

 

These people are politicians. It's their job to lie. Trump ran on running the government like a business, stopping the BS in the middle east and ending the pay for play capitalism. Trump has increased spending, emboldened the military and gave Saudi Arabia billions of weapons so they can bomb a cholera-ridden Saudi Arabia. Obama ran on protecting whistleblowers, closing Gitmo and ending the two wars. He attacked whistleblowers unlike any president before, Gitmo is still operating and he not only expanded the two wars but started another five.

 

These people are liars and scumbags by trade. It's not partisan, it's not right and it definitely shouldn't be surprising.

 

That base of voters demonize Democrats for not being religious enough. I mean, they went after Obama for being a secret Muslim. If they attack someone as unfit for office because of their moral character, it is hypocritical to look the other way when it's the guy on their own team who does not live up to their standard of morality.

[RockRaines]

So basically, generalizing the right = okay. Generalizing the life = not okay.

Do you really think all of Obama's voter base was on government support? Really?

[RockRaines]

This.

 

It would be hypocritical for me to say that Donald Trump is unfit to lead because he had an affair (he's unfit to lead for a whole host of other reasons). Sex between consenting adults, I don't care!

 

But it is decidedly not hypocritical for me to point out that the the party of Family Values seems to only care about Family Values when they are campaigning against godless Democrats. Pointing out hypocrisy in someone else is not in itself hypocritical.

If Obama suddenly switched his view on homosexuality and decided that it was wrong and conversion was an option, I would expect his base to be f***ing furious. Thats exactly the reaction I expect from staunch religious voters that went for Trump.

[StrangeSox]

Okay do your nitpick. My statement is still materially true. How'd that work out? How'd he hold up on that campaign promise? Or any of them? He was just like the rest of them - a corporatist serving the interests of the banks and military. Only difference was he's a cool guy with a slick tongue and an inherent appeal to the gender politics.

 

It's not a nitpick, it's a factually false claim you've made several times now. I don't know why you can't keep it straight in your head, but Obama never campaigned on ending the war in Afghanistan.

 

Obama didn't hold up his campaign promises in some areas (though he did in others!). He disappointed his base in other areas that weren't even campaign promises. But the issue here isn't about "campaign promises," so the comparison doesn't really make any sense.

 

e: even the "base" claim doesn't really make sense. Obama's base may have supported more robust government programs, but they didn't have a moral qualification that their elected officials be on those programs. It's not even a stance that would really make sense. But evangelical conservatives have painted themselves as "values voters" for decades, and had generally held that an elected official needed to be (in their view) a morally upstanding person in their personal life in order to deserve to hold public office. It's just not really the same sort of thing.

Edited February 14, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

The reason its an issue is because conservatives have tried to enforce religious morality through the legislature and judiciary.

 

If you cant see the hypocrisy in something like "Gay marriage should be banned because its against my religion" and then being okay with adultery, there is simply no point in discussing.

 

I personally dont care what he did with another consenting adult. And since Trump has 0 credibility, his lies are just normal for someone like him.

[Dick Allen]

I will say it is surprising that Trump's alleged affair isn't getting more air time. Maybe it's just a product of the constant scandal, red alert, corporate news media blasting the sirens too often. Personally, I am not concerned with who a person is or isn't having sex with or rather who he/she should or shouldn't be having sex with. Especially when it pertains to something that happened years ago.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a leader has to be representative of their voters. At least that never seems to happen. Trump's base is religious. Should he also be religious? Obama's base was people receiving aid from the government. Should he have also received aid?

 

These people are politicians. It's their job to lie. Trump ran on running the government like a business, stopping the BS in the middle east and ending the pay for play capitalism. Trump has increased spending, emboldened the military and gave Saudi Arabia billions of weapons so they can bomb a cholera-ridden Saudi Arabia. Obama ran on protecting whistleblowers, closing Gitmo and ending the two wars. He attacked whistleblowers unlike any president before, Gitmo is still operating and he not only expanded the two wars but started another five.

 

These people are liars and scumbags by trade. It's not partisan, it's not right and it definitely shouldn't be surprising.

You sure did seem to think it was important to let everyone know the ANTIFA woman who was beat by an alt right guy dabbled in porn a while back.