StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, raBBit said: There's also a reason that people from adjacent countries that have socialized medicine come to America for procedures. *small number of people for a handful of procedures the vast majority simply enjoy their affordable healthcare that doesn't bankrupt people regularly. something something doesn't fit the narrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 there's a heck of a lot more to health care than "ER visits and emergency surgery" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Actually a lot more are going to Colombia, Thailand, South Korea...because cosmetic and dental surgery are becoming prohibitively expensive in the US. Not that this proves conclusively the American system is broken, it’s simply a function of supply and demand. But let’s just conveniently blame all the skyrocketing health care costs on illegal immigrants....that would be MUCH easier than actually addressing the problem/s. Edited May 17, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 This discussion and the rehashed ACA/poor guy going to hospital probably belongs in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I have pretty good insurance, gold plan equivalent for a couple hundred a month for a family. When we had a baby last summer, the total out of pocket was probably $2.5k or so My Canadian friends had a baby at the same time. Their total bill was less than $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 According to this, uninsured are twice as likely to die in the ER than insured. I thought everything is the same. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uninsured-twice-as-likely-to-die-in-er/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, RockRaines said: This discussion and the rehashed ACA/poor guy going to hospital probably belongs in another thread. Yep, there's an entire thread for it! That same "poors can just go to the ER and not pay their bills!" thing was broken down in depth multiple times over several years, but it's a zombie argument that can't be killed. Little hurt is right that some were definitely negatively impacted by the ACA. It was very far from ideal, even if it does represent a significant improvement over the status quo ante for more people than were negatively impacted. But the Republican response has not been to offer fixes, just tearing down and going back to the status quo ante or worse. If people voted Trump because of the ACA, they should keep in mind what he was promising. No cuts to Medicare or Medicaid. Cheaper insurances for everyone. Nobody would lose coverage. He even talked about universal coverage! Of course he immediately abandoned all of that in favor of Ryan's Randian policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: Don't you just hate when you're running late to work and a big crowd of white supremacists stop you from getting there on time? It was just the other day I went to the coffee shop and there was a Nazi protest going on right outside. Happens too often. To be considered racist you have to be showing it in public, got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, raBBit said: Your testimonial doesn't live up to the facts. If a single mother has 300 dollars in the bank and has an ACA plan with a $5,000 deductible and all of a sudden she gets an emergency surgery for $4,500 the hospital doesn't follow her around and garnish her wages until she's a slave. They write it off. Since ACA brought in these high deductible plans, hospitals have been writing off more and more receivables because lower middle class and poor people have been forced onto high deductible plans. If the same single mother had 300 dollars and no insurance, she would get covered for the emergency surgery and the hospital would write off the debt she couldn't conceivably pay. This isn't partisan theory or opinion. This is how insurance works. This is my experience in that industry. My mom's (liberal) understanding of a nurse of 2-3 decades in the ER/ICU. The problem with health insurance in America isn't poor people. Poor people get covered by good Samaritan laws and ethical debt practices. The people who get fucked are the middle class. The one's who have assets and a family but get unexpected medical expenses. The talk of poor people and the destitute is just an emotional play by the people in congress who are influenced by the healthcare/insurance industries. Rabbit, we've talked about this before. The ACA has cut bankruptcy filings significantly. https://www.consumerreports.org/personal-bankruptcy/how-the-aca-drove-down-personal-bankruptcy/ There were certainly times that hospitals - like everyone else - writes off debt, but I can attest, as a bankruptcy attorney on both sides of the aisle (creditor and debtor) - and as a former collection attorney for hospitals - that hospitals don't just write off debt because. So, Rabbit, on that issue, your experiences absolutely do not match up to my professional experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: That's an awesome retort. You might have well said "I know you are but what am I." The fact of the matter is, you got duped by a tweet from a biased journalist that knowingly misrepresented a quote. The president said bad things about an international crime syndicate and you are applying his comments about the gang to "immigrants." It's ridiculous. Doesn't Trump say enough dumb things that you don't have to be a liar to support your narratives? Trump uses ms13 as a dog whistle for all Latino immigrants all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, raBBit said: That's an awesome retort. You might have well said "I know you are but what am I." The fact of the matter is, you got duped by a tweet from a biased journalist that knowingly misrepresented a quote. The president said bad things about an international crime syndicate and you are applying his comments about the gang to "immigrants." It's ridiculous. Doesn't Trump say enough dumb things that you don't have to be a liar to support your narratives? So let me guess, you don't get any of your information from what anyone could consider biased journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, RockRaines said: To be considered racist you have to be showing it in public, got it. He defended Charlottesville as a free speech rally so who knows how high his bar is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, StrangeSox said: He defended Charlottesville as a free speech rally so who knows how high his bar is My horribly racist Grandmother would have been happy to know that as long as you dont protest, you cant be considered racist. Edited May 17, 2018 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said: Rabbit, we've talked about this before. The ACA has cut bankruptcy filings significantly. https://www.consumerreports.org/personal-bankruptcy/how-the-aca-drove-down-personal-bankruptcy/ There were certainly times that hospitals - like everyone else - writes off debt, but I can attest, as a bankruptcy attorney on both sides of the aisle (creditor and debtor) - and as a former collection attorney for hospitals - that hospitals don't just write off debt because. So, Rabbit, on that issue, your experiences absolutely do not match up to my professional experiences. I was going to write something similar, but I loved the "ethical debt" practices. Ive actually never heard that one before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: No one is stopping you from going to Canada and living there. Well immigration laws do exist for one. But I'm not sure why you think that's responsive in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 medical bankruptcy is a core issue in our broken system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: Regulation. FDA doesn't allow certain procedures. They didn't allow cryotherapy for years so people went to Europe. Now they allow it. People don't get to Europe anymore. Oh really? So your position here is that Americans do not go to Europe for healthcare anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: Regulation. FDA doesn't allow certain procedures. They didn't allow cryotherapy for years so people went to Europe. Now they allow it. People don't get to Europe anymore. people travel for routine cosmetic and other elective surgeries that can often be found cheaper in other countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: Again, middle class people who have insurance are more likely to go through bankruptcy than poor people with nothing. Okay? That's still a broken system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: No it's not - you're misrepresenting my argument. People will go to Europe to get a procedure if the FDA doesn't allow it here. I don't know why that's hard to understand. People travel for a lot more than just that procedure. I don't know why that's hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: No it's not - you're misrepresenting my argument. People will go to Europe to get a procedure if the FDA doesn't allow it here. I don't know why that's hard to understand. Because you wrote a sentence that said "people dont get to Europe anymore." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: No shit. That's irrelevant. Does the USA have to have the best prices on everything to be valid? There are risks associated. People have options globally. I think that's great. Uh in response to rock saying lots travel from the US, you brought up one specific procedure and then said they don't travel anymore. What was the point of bringing up that procedure of you weren't trying to dispute the notion that people leave this country for medical care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: Exactly. I am and was totally against ACA. Medical bankruptcies have decreased under ACA. You don't even know what you're trying to argue any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: In reference to my example of a cryotherapy... I know the gang here likes to apply a comment about one specific thing and apply it to a whole general group but that's not accurate. What was the point of bringing up that one specific procedure in response to Rock's comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: In reference to my example of a cryotherapy... I know the gang here likes to apply a comment about one specific thing and apply it to a whole general group but that's not accurate. Thats not how it was worded. So its not exactly my fault, or an example of anyone else's thoughts, that you didnt express yourself clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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