StrangeSox Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, NorthSideSox72 said: Sorry guys, I just do not at all agree. Journalism takes many forms, and I am not at all opposed to the analytical end of things. That's fine too. Woodward is not that - he's a digger. Which I appreciate. Clearly he didn't criticize certain things enough for you, but I don't think he was even trying to go down that road. I look forward to his new book, presenting information that I can synthesize with other sources, myself. I think Journalism takes many forms, and Woodward is within a realm. I just can't agree on that he's a digger. His stuff has evolved. He first started this full access book stuff with Carter. And realistically why he was hired in the first place at WaPo was his connections, watergate just got the most out of him. With the Carter book, he actually writes with skepticism and a veil of "why is he telling me this" wink wink nod nod at Carters naivety (thinking specifically to his recount of Carter proactively bringing to Woodward that the CIA had been paying for prostitutes for dictators, thinking it would soften blow). His style evolved to it being prestigious to woodward to come in and give the insider account. But that's what it is, an insider account, effectively primary sourcing. But an insider account isn't necessarily an accurate account. Look at how a person like Chernow handles Grant. There are parts of Grants autobio that are just patently wrong or greatly clarified by other accounts and resources. Woodward just doesn't bother providing that extra layer. THat's okay, and it's valuable to an extent that you get a skin deep view of how an admin views its own actions. But it's also not a definitive account, which is what he posits it as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, bmags said: I think Journalism takes many forms, and Woodward is within a realm. I just can't agree on that he's a digger. His stuff has evolved. He first started this full access book stuff with Carter. And realistically why he was hired in the first place at WaPo was his connections, watergate just got the most out of him. With the Carter book, he actually writes with skepticism and a veil of "why is he telling me this" wink wink nod nod at Carters naivety (thinking specifically to his recount of Carter proactively bringing to Woodward that the CIA had been paying for prostitutes for dictators, thinking it would soften blow). His style evolved to it being prestigious to woodward to come in and give the insider account. But that's what it is, an insider account, effectively primary sourcing. But an insider account isn't necessarily an accurate account. Look at how a person like Chernow handles Grant. There are parts of Grants autobio that are just patently wrong or greatly clarified by other accounts and resources. Woodward just doesn't bother providing that extra layer. THat's okay, and it's valuable to an extent that you get a skin deep view of how an admin views its own actions. But it's also not a definitive account, which is what he posits it as. it is indeed insider stuff. I guess I don't care how he markets it. I don't read his text as trying to pronounce anything as the full story of everything. It's a lot of interesting insider info, and that to me has great value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: it is indeed insider stuff. I guess I don't care how he markets it. I don't read his text as trying to pronounce anything as the full story of everything. It's a lot of interesting insider info, and that to me has great value. I think the reaction you are getting is just, the Iraq war is still the single most destructive and unbelievable action the US has taken in my lifetime, and people like Woodward gave cover to people in that administration who purposefully acted wrongly, and not only were never punished but obfuscated their role to avoid ever having to show introspection or contrition for that. Him providing cover for them is a huge sin to me. Those that drove that war to being absolutely die for that narrative that they were trying to do the right thing and some mistakes were made. And he provided it. It's very disappointing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 I'll just note that no one yet has attempted to defend him publicly criticizing Pat Fitzgerald's investigation of the Plame leak without publicly disclosing that he was a part of that investigation because a source leaked to him, which remains scummy and true and a perfect distillation of his current character. Also a perfect illustration of how the rules only matter to little people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: I think the reaction you are getting is just, the Iraq war is still the single most destructive and unbelievable action the US has taken in my lifetime, and people like Woodward gave cover to people in that administration who purposefully acted wrongly, and not only were never punished but obfuscated their role to avoid ever having to show introspection or contrition for that. Him providing cover for them is a huge sin to me. Those that drove that war to being absolutely die for that narrative that they were trying to do the right thing and some mistakes were made. And he provided it. It's very disappointing to me. I guess I didn't get the impression reading it that he was providing any cover. In fact I thought the information he presented was pretty damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Speaking of the Iraq War, if any of y'all haven't read the book Curveball, you should. Now that's a book where the author provided lots of his own color, too much in my view, but the information is just fascinating (and frightening). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It's been weeks and still no one has figured out how to teach him the difference between Great Britain, England, and the United Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Intellectually, DJT makes GWB seem like Neil Degrasse Tyson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, BigSqwert said: Intellectually, DJT makes GWB seem like Neil Degrasse Tyson. While true, the problem is, when he holds a rally, he may be the smartest person in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It's been weeks and still no one has figured out how to teach him the difference between Great Britain, England, and the United Kingdom. He seems obsessed with this. Is he generally just confused about this or is this some sort of attempt to call it England for some kind of political reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 https://sports.yahoo.com/president-donald-trump-changes-mind-lebron-james-criticizes-players-intelligence-due-cnn-interview-045205309.html Pattern of consistently denigrating the intelligence of African Americans continues, this time with LeBron in the crosshairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://sports.yahoo.com/president-donald-trump-changes-mind-lebron-james-criticizes-players-intelligence-due-cnn-interview-045205309.html Pattern of consistently denigrating the intelligence of African Americans continues, this time with LeBron in the crosshairs. It’s clearly racist. The dumbest low IQ ... people are always black. His base loves it, and agrees. I do wonder who gave him his info since he doesn’t watch fake news CNN. Edited August 4, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: It’s clearly racist. The dumbest low IQ ... people are always black. His base loves it, and agrees. I do wonder who gave him his info since he doesn’t watch fake news CNN. He might not test off the charts on the SAT or beat everyone in Jeopardy or Millionaire, but high EQ is even more important now...he understands people, isn’t afraid to express his opinion, knows his brand (another reason for going back to CLE/Akron), is quite comfortable with his place in the world. Trump still can’t tell the difference from UK, Britain and England...even though his mom’s from Scotland or Wales...yet Koby Bryant can speak something like 8 languages. Too bad they can’t have a nationally televised debate, like the Tiger/Mickelson Thanksgiving Challenge. Family Feud would be even more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Why does Ivanka now speak in a whisper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: He might not test off the charts on the SAT or beat everyone in Jeopardy or Millionaire, but high EQ is even more important now...he understands people, isn’t afraid to express his opinion, knows his brand (another reason for going back to CLE/Akron), is quite comfortable with his place in the world. Trump still can’t tell the difference from UK, Britain and England...even though his mom’s from Scotland or Wales...yet Koby Bryant can speak something like 8 languages. Too bad they can’t have a nationally televised debate, like the Tiger/Mickelson Thanksgiving Challenge. Family Feud would be even more entertaining. There is a Howard Stern clip out ther where Howard asks Trump, Trump Jr. and Ivanka, what something like 86+17 equaled. Trump and Jr. got it wrong. Ivanka refused to answer. They are all like really smart. Edited August 4, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/americans-buying-rabid-pro-trump-conspiracy-theories-120653906.html More QAnon conspiracies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) Kushner’s depressed value/infamous 666 Building finally “sells,” was purchased for $1.8 billion, had a balloon debt payment for $1.1 billion due in January of next year https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/03/news/companies/kushner-666-fifth-avenue-brookfield/index.html Kushner Cos. has ceded complete control of the office portion of 666 Fifth Ave. to a Brookfield fund through a 99-year lease. No pricing was available, but the rent was front-loaded so there will be no ongoing payments to Kushner. The family will retain its offices in the building, sources tell The Post. But the pricing and upfront payment has also enabled the family company to pay off the remaining — and looming — debt of $1.1 billion and buy out its 49.5 percent partner, Vornado Realty Trust, for a previously agreed $120 million. Vornado, however, will continue to own another retail condominium portion of the building as does Inditex, the Spanish parent of Zara. As The Post previously reported, Brookfield intends to remake the 1957 aluminum-clad office tower with low dropped ceilings into a modern edifice, more enticing to today’s tech tenancies and along the lines of its dramatic reinvention of 5 Manhattan West. https://nypost.com/2018/08/03/kushner-companies-unloads-666-fifth-ave-to-brookfield/amp/ Edited August 5, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 No posts about Trump admitting that the Trump Tower/Russia meeting story he and his family has been telling this whole time was completely made up? I’m shocked that the guy who can’t do anything but lie was lying about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 42 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said: No posts about Trump admitting that the Trump Tower/Russia meeting story he and his family has been telling this whole time was completely made up? I’m shocked that the guy who can’t do anything but lie was lying about that. I thought about posting that tweet and then figured we already all expected that he had been lying the whole time, that he had conspired with the Russian president about those lies, and that their campaign was totally willing to accept criminal assistance from a foreign power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/local/article/Immigrant-GI-booted-out-of-Army-at-Fort-Sam-13130805.php Bad guys out, good guys in? I thought we desired to attract hard working immigrants/future doctors? The QAnon theory takes many forms, but it essentially stipulates that Trump is secretly saving the world and stopping pedophiles and the like. As Paul Musgrave recently wrote for The Washington Post, the central conceit is that "behind the scenes, Trump is really doing something amazing and heroic — that the shambolic mess of a commander in chief the world sees is just a front for a hypercompetent superhero." Some believers in this theory take it really seriously. They talk about it on message boards and social media sites. Others aren't sure what to think, but they know it's "fun" to participate in, like a political video game. They become part of a story that stars Trump as the hero. There's a "choose your own adventure" aspect to all this. Trump's allies are expert at providing a counter-narrative to the prevailing media narrative. And Trump himself knows how to change the story with the click of a Twitter button. This is why the term "alternative reality" comes up so often in conversations about the Trump presidency. There's Trump ... and his favorite talk shows ... and his favorite authors ... and the fans who come up with the conspiracy theories ... all of the Twitter bots and trolls that promote it ... and the politicians who play along ... all amounting to a well-constructed reality that bears almost no resemblance to news reportage. In the same way that Disney fans fly to Florida, in the same way that comic book fans argue on internet forums, Trump loyalists flock to his rallies. They are not representative of the public at large, but they do represent something powerful. They are motivated to defend him. And they're motivated to keep telling his story. https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/05/media/donald-trump-story-telling/index.html Edited August 6, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Have I mentioned that Paul is a buddy of mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 A couple of 1990s articles penned by Mike Pence claim the President needs to have more moral character than a typical citizen. Having affairs and lying about it is grounds for impeachment as long as that President has a D after their name. They are all phonies and hypocrites. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/politics/trump-rudy-giuliani-russia/index.html So, do we think Mueller’s investigation will be wrapped up by the midterms? Or will it drag on while he waits to interview the president? I bet the investigation continues beyond November and Trump gets subpoenaed to talk to Mueller, starting a battle that will go to the Supreme Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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