Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 12:46 PM) I didn't see that at all defensively, and while limited, the defensive numbers don't seem to bear that out either. Leury isn't close to the defender that Engel is but Leury was well on his way to a 2.5-3 WAR season with 15 homers or so. Engel doesn't dream of being a 3 WAR player in even his best dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credezcrew24 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 11:35 AM) Leury has outstanding speed. played as well, if not better, than Engel defensively, hits from both sides of the plate and showed some pop. Everyone else is in line behind him and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Engel is eventually released. Engel has elite speed. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard Engel plays elite defense. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (zisk @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 11:19 AM) AE is 26 already. fine glove,great speed. 25th man at best. Why such a deep discussion about a very mediocre talent? Because there is nothing else to talk about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I'm pretty sure Engel graded out as like a top 3 defensive CF. He is like Buxton levels of good, and probably about the same speed. With that defense and speed, you try your hardest to get something out of the bat because if you can get it to even just be playable, he is a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 01:04 PM) Engel has elite speed. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard Engel plays elite defense. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard Leury is billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credezcrew24 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 12:10 PM) Leury is billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed. Where? Statcast data shows otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I would put Engel in AAA to work on his bat, which is currently nowhere near good enough. But he has enough talent that warrants keeping him; nothing to be lost giving him a full year in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (KnightsOnMintSt @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 11:40 AM) I agree, but the way I look at it, 2018 is almost like a practice year. Guys like Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez will get "pressure free" starts, that I think will really help them in 2019. I dont think Engel will be a starter beyond 2018, but I would love to see the development withe the bat because the glove is so strong. Not sure that is true for Moncada. Last year was his pressure free time. He was moved back to his probable future position at 2nd after a really rocky cup of coffee in Boston. Next year's win/loss numbers won't matter but if Moncada really struggles offensively, I think there will be pressure on him later in the year. If he gets 400 AB and his HR/RBI numbers and average are still an issue, I think the fan base will start getting antsy. He will probably be putting pressure on himself as well. I agree the pitchers get a free ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Keep in mind Engel typically takes a while to figure out each level, but definitely gets better at each level with more playing time. He has played a little more than 1/2 season in Charlotte and hasn't fully figured out that level yet. I'm fine with him starting in Charlotte as the everyday CF, let him figure out hitting against better competition, and if improvements are made then call him up when a spot opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 #ImWithEngel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 02:57 PM) Not sure that is true for Moncada. Last year was his pressure free time. He was moved back to his probable future position at 2nd after a really rocky cup of coffee in Boston. Next year's win/loss numbers won't matter but if Moncada really struggles offensively, I think there will be pressure on him later in the year. If he gets 400 AB and his HR/RBI numbers and average are still an issue, I think the fan base will start getting antsy. He will probably be putting pressure on himself as well. I agree the pitchers get a free ride. You hit it right on the head.. We, as fans, need Moncada to produce. Especially general fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 02:18 PM) Where? Statcast data shows otherwise https://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/8/20/4...icago-white-sox https://theloopsports.com/2017/06/06/white-...ke-and-mirrors/ http://www.gammonsdaily.com/potential-in-leury-garcia/ https://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...09/leury-garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credezcrew24 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:08 PM) https://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/8/20/4...icago-white-sox https://theloopsports.com/2017/06/06/white-...ke-and-mirrors/ http://www.gammonsdaily.com/potential-in-leury-garcia/ https://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...09/leury-garcia "Is" and "was" don't mean the same thing. Everything you posted has reports from around 2013. You said "Leury is billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed". Once again here is data from the 2017 season that shows that you're wrong. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 04:24 PM) "Is" and "was" don't mean the same thing. Everything you posted has reports from around 2013. You said "Leury is billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed". Once again here is data from the 2017 season that shows that you're wrong. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard You do realize the difference between scouting and stats right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 11:04 AM) Engel has elite speed. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard Engel plays elite defense. Leury does not. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard We can twist the stats anyway we want to suit our needs. DRS says Engel was a -1 in CF in in 799 innings while Leury was a +3 in 406 inninngs. Leury had a UZR of 3.4 while in CF Engel 1.5 . I know Leury's sample size is much smaller in the stats you used and the ones I used.However I don't think, nor do the limited numbers suggest, that Engel is any better than Leury out there. Engel probably is better on fundamentals given he has played CF very often while Leury is fairly new to the position. But since Leury is a better hitter and the defense is not a significant factor it's still Luery's job to lose and it isn't close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 07:37 PM) We can twist the stats anyway we want to suit our needs. DRS says Engel was a -1 in CF in in 799 innings while Leury was a +3 in 406 inninngs. Leury had a UZR of 3.4 while in CF Engel 1.5 . I know Leury's sample size is much smaller in the stats you used and the ones I used.However I don't think, nor do the limited numbers suggest, that Engel is any better than Leury out there. Engel probably is better on fundamentals given he has played CF very often while Leury is fairly new to the position. But since Leury is a better hitter and the defense is not a significant factor it's still Luery's job to lose and it isn't close. I disagree that it’s Leury’s job to lose. I think it’s either guy’s job to win with Engel slightly ahead due to highlight reel capabilities and years of control. Both are fantastic guys to have on the bench but I’d say the Sox will favor Engel out of the gate in Spring Training. Just a hunch. But I’ve been biased ever since somebody compared him to Trout 3-4 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credezcrew24 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 04:54 PM) You do realize the difference between scouting and stats right? I sure do. However, you clearly don't know the difference between "is" and "was" because you will not be able to find anywhere that has Leury "billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:46 PM) #ImWithEngel #engelintheoutfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 18, 2018 -> 12:24 AM) I sure do. However, you clearly don't know the difference between "is" and "was" because you will not be able to find anywhere that has Leury "billed as having somewhere around 70 to 75 rated speed". That's not really true though. There are tweets out there about Garcia making a catch with an over 29 time, as well as his baseball cube page still listing him as a 93 out of 100 on the speed scale, which would put him at around a 75 speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 18, 2018 -> 12:23 AM) I disagree that it’s Leury’s job to lose. I think it’s either guy’s job to win with Engel slightly ahead due to highlight reel capabilities and years of control. Both are fantastic guys to have on the bench but I’d say the Sox will favor Engel out of the gate in Spring Training. Just a hunch. But I’ve been biased ever since somebody compared him to Trout 3-4 years ago. Leury Garcia was on his way to a 2.5-3 WAR season last year. Adam Engel is bad at baseball. I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that Engel will be ahead of Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) They'll probably platoon like they did last year with the other coming in as a late inning replacement for Delmonico. Of course, this discussion is moot if Tilson can stay healthy (ok, I couldn't say that with a straight face ). IF Tilson is healthy and there are no further moves: C: Castillo 1B: Abreu 2B: Moncada 3B: Sanchez (can spot start at 2B) SS: Anderson LF: Delmonico CF: Tilson RF: A. Garcia DH: Davidson (some starts at 1B and 3B as well) Bench C Narvaez IF/OF Garcia OF Engel With this set up, they can go with an 8th reliever or carry another bench player (Saladino maybe). Edited January 18, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 18, 2018 -> 07:46 AM) They'll probably platoon like they did last year with the other coming in as a late inning replacement for Delmonico. Of course, this discussion is moot if Tilson can stay healthy (ok, I couldn't say that with a straight face ). IF Tilson is healthy and there are no further moves: C: Castillo 1B: Abreu 2B: Moncada 3B: Sanchez (can spot start at 2B) SS: Anderson LF: Delmonico CF: Tilson RF: A. Garcia DH: Davidson (some starts at 1B and 3B as well) Bench C Narvaez IF/OF Garcia OF Engel With this set up, they can go with an 8th reliever or carry another bench player (Saladino maybe). I wonder what kind of football player AE could have become with his blend of size, speed and quickness Edited January 18, 2018 by zisk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 18, 2018 -> 07:46 AM) They'll probably platoon like they did last year with the other coming in as a late inning replacement for Delmonico. Of course, this discussion is moot if Tilson can stay healthy (ok, I couldn't say that with a straight face ). IF Tilson is healthy and there are no further moves: C: Castillo 1B: Abreu 2B: Moncada 3B: Sanchez (can spot start at 2B) SS: Anderson LF: Delmonico CF: Tilson RF: A. Garcia DH: Davidson (some starts at 1B and 3B as well) Bench C Narvaez IF/OF Garcia OF Engel With this set up, they can go with an 8th reliever or carry another bench player (Saladino maybe). If Tilson makes the team, I think they do this C Castillo 1B Abreu 2B Moncada SS Anderson 3B Sanchez CF Tilson LF Leury RF Garcia DH Delmonico Bench: Narvaez, Saladino, Engel, Davidson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I don't think Engel should make the team out of spring training unless the team's talent evaluators know that his bat has improved greatly in the offseason. His ability to catch the ball, per the best metrics we have available, suggest he is at Buxton's level. The eye test will tell you that too. But his bat is so bad and so very far from being good enough that you need him to hit the ball consistently for a while before you have him play in the majors again. Leury is not the defender, but is very fast — his very small sample of Statcast data on speed does not contradict what has long been reported by scouts about his speed — and showed last year that he can actually hit and defend well enough in CF. It's Leury's spot to lose in my opinion, but for some reason it seems to me that the Sox are not as high on him for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 18, 2018 -> 10:29 AM) If Tilson makes the team, I think they do this C Castillo 1B Abreu 2B Moncada SS Anderson 3B Sanchez CF Tilson LF Leury RF Garcia DH Delmonico Bench: Narvaez, Saladino, Engel, Davidson I like it other than Engel...he needs to be in AAA if he's not starting. Can that guy we got from the Brewers play CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.