White Sox interested in adding a DH

[Kyyle23]

Ok, so no actual substance in terms of how you would make the team better.

 

I figured that was a waste of time, but wanted to give you a shot. Should have known better.

 

spend all the money on a bullpen because you all know a rebuilding team needs an expensive bullpen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Some concerns that haven't been addressed. If the Sox do spend next off season because of the amount of quality free agents on the market shouldn't they be taking advantage of the market now while it's cold and prices are down? I don't know who might benefit the Sox the most at this time but free agents next year will want 2 things, money and to be on a winning team. Should n't the Sox do something to make the team more competitive to next years crop of free agents ?

 

Shields should be off the books next year so might another starting pitcher benefit them ? Relying only on young starting pitching even if the target date is 2020 is risky business, Also if the target date is truly 2020 isn't it also risky business to expect next years good crop of FA's to wait a year or even possibly longer to be on a winning team? The Phillies might be thinking along those lines with the signing of Santana and still are rumored to have interest in a starting pitcher.

 

The Sox might end up with too many holes to fill when they actually do decide to spend and the competition for the top free agents will be fierce so being a competitive team would surely work in their favor just as being a few years away will work against them.

 

Other concerns for the rebuild is what happens if JR dies suddenly or the players strike after the 2021 season which would be right in the middle of the supposed window of competitiveness if all goes right ? Obviously the 1st concern is the most pressing but these other 2 things could easily happen and in the event of JR's sudden death how does the rebuild survive ? We should all remember 1994 when Frank Thomas was having a career year and the players strike possibly robbed the Sox of competing for a World title.

Edited February 13, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

Some concerns that haven't been addressed. If the Sox do spend next off season because of the amount of quality free agents on the market shouldn't they be taking advantage of the market now while it's cold and prices are down? I don't know who might benefit the Sox the most at this time but free agents next year will want 2 things, money and to be on a winning team. Should n't the Sox do something to make the team more competitive to next years crop of free agents ?

 

Shields should be off the books next year so might another starting pitcher benefit them ? Relying only on young starting pitching even if the target date is 2020 is risky business, Also if the target date is truly 2020 isn't it also risky business to expect next years good crop of FA's to wait a year or even possibly longer to be on a winning team? The Phillies might be thinking along those lines with the signing of Santana and still are rumored to have interest in a starting pitcher.

 

The Sox might end up with too many holes to fill when they actually do decide to spend and the competition for the top free agents will be fierce so being a competitive team would surely work in their favor just as being a few years away will work against them.

 

Other concerns for the rebuild is what happens if JR dies suddenly or the players strike after the 2021 season which would be right in the middle of the supposed window of competitiveness if all goes right ? Obviously the 1st concern is the most pressing but these other 2 things could easily happen and in the event of JR's sudden death how does the rebuild survive ?

 

Not disagreeing but who would you be ok with the team signing? For me personally, the only guy out there who makes a little sense is basically a DH and he only makes sense since he doesn't have a draft pick attached to him.

[Dick Allen]

Some concerns that haven't been addressed. If the Sox do spend next off season because of the amount of quality free agents on the market shouldn't they be taking advantage of the market now while it's cold and prices are down? I don't know who might benefit the Sox the most at this time but free agents next year will want 2 things, money and to be on a winning team. Should n't the Sox do something to make the team more competitive to next years crop of free agents ?

 

Shields should be off the books next year so might another starting pitcher benefit them ? Relying only on young starting pitching even if the target date is 2020 is risky business, Also if the target date is truly 2020 isn't it also risky business to expect next years good crop of FA's to wait a year or even possibly longer to be on a winning team? The Phillies might be thinking along those lines with the signing of Santana and still are rumored to have interest in a starting pitcher.

 

The Sox might end up with too many holes to fill when they actually do decide to spend and the competition for the top free agents will be fierce so being a competitive team would surely work in their favor just as being a few years away will work against them.

 

Other concerns for the rebuild is what happens if JR dies suddenly or the players strike after the 2021 season which would be right in the middle of the supposed window of competitiveness if all goes right ? Obviously the 1st concern is the most pressing but these other 2 things could easily happen and in the event of JR's sudden death how does the rebuild survive ?

I agree with this. Obviously it depends on value, but if 3 WAR players are signing for $8.5 million, grabbing a bargain makes a ton of sense. At the very least, they can be very flippable at the deadline.

 

Obviously, I have no idea who is available for what price, but bargains that can help you win down the road shouldn't be ignored. Chances are, the opportunity so many may be available might not ever happen again.

[WBWSF]

I always get a kick out the posts a new owner will spend, spend, spend. What did Ricketts do right away? What did Jeter's group do right away? What happened to the Padres when an ex agent bought them?

 

Your contacts are wrong. He isn't selling.

When JR bought the team the first thing he did to stimulate interest was sign 2 big free agents, Fisk and Luzinski. The White Sox took over the city during the early part of 1981. They were having walkup crowds of 20,000. The franchise was going to draw over 2 million people for the first time. Then there was a players strike and that killed all the momentum that was built up by the new owners.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I agree with this. Obviously it depends on value, but if 3 WAR players are signing for $8.5 million, grabbing a bargain makes a ton of sense. At the very least, they can be very flippable at the deadline.

Obviously, I have no idea who is available for what price, but bargains that can help you win down the road shouldn't be ignored. Chances are, the opportunity so many may be available might not ever happen again.

 

This is a good point too. Someone signed to a multi-year contract at a bargain price can be moved next off-season or the following year.

[Balta1701]

I agree with this. Obviously it depends on value, but if 3 WAR players are signing for $8.5 million, grabbing a bargain makes a ton of sense. At the very least, they can be very flippable at the deadline.

 

Obviously, I have no idea who is available for what price, but bargains that can help you win down the road shouldn't be ignored. Chances are, the opportunity so many may be available might not ever happen again.

My counterpoint to this idea is still, 100%, play the kids. Take a look at the 3 positions where we might sign someone right now:

 

3b

DH

CF

 

Right now, we've got Leury, who put up 1.1 WAR in 1/2 a season, as the possible CF. We've got Yolmer, who put up 2.1 WAR in 530 PAs, at 3b. We've got Delmonico, who put up 1.0 WAR in 166 PAs, as a possible DH who will rotate into the field until the thing is called up. We've then got other guys behind them like Cordell who might step up and grab those positions too. In other words, why would you spend $8.5 million on a guy to put up 3 WAR when you might very well have 3 WAR players in your system who are first-year arb guys or earlier?

[Bob Sacamano]

The idea on paper makes sense. But who are these players?

 

Most agree that 2020 is when the Sox will be ready to truly compete. That's another two seasons. If you are signing a bigger name FA who you think you may be getting on a discount, you're not signing them to produce in the 2018 and 2019 season. It's for 2020 and beyond. So what players out there right now are you paying that you feel comfortable about them producing at a high level in 2020, 2021 and beyond?

 

Again, I understand your point and I think it has some merit, but who are the specific players that fit that bill?

 

A guy like Lorenzo Cain if he were about 2 years younger would have been a nice add. But yeah, there are no perfect fits in the current class.

[Dick Allen]

When JR bought the team the first thing he did to stimulate interest was sign 2 big free agents, Fisk and Luzinski. The White Sox took over the city during the early part of 1981. They were having walkup crowds of 20,000. The franchise was going to draw over 2 million people for the first time. Then there was a players strike and that killed all the momentum that was built up by the new owners.

It's a different day now. These groups have to come up with billions and are normally leveraged to the hilt. Spend, spend, spend is a lot more complicated now. Fisk was a fluke free agent. Luzinski was purchased from Philadelphia for a song. That's when "spending" didn't cost 9 figures a crack for what you would probably consider minimum for not being cheap.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Not disagreeing but who would you be ok with the team signing? For me personally, the only guy out there who makes a little sense is basically a DH and he only makes sense since he doesn't have a draft pick attached to him.

I already said I don't know who would benefit the Sox the most and also mentioned a starting pitcher. Arrieta is trending down , Alex Cobb, Lance Lynn, Andrew Cashner ?

I love JD Martinez the guy hit 29 HR's in only 62 games with the D'backs and had a .714 Slg. % which is just crazy.. l know even at this point the best FA's still won't be cheap especially since Boras is the agent for many of the good ones still out there.

 

I don't think the Sox have much of a chance at Machado and Donaldson will be too old. Arenado is a free agent in 2019 but he agreed to terms with the Rockies before so it could happen again so Moustaskas might not be a bad idea. Filling 3rd base will probably be hardest for the Sox and he is left handed and among the younger free agents . So a starting pitcher, and some middle of the order bats, one lefty one righty, and one who fills 2 glaring holes ( LH power and 3rd base). More quality BP arms wouldn't hurt either but that yacht seems to have saled early. Fill some holes now and some later . that's really how it should be. The chances of anyone besides the top prospects becoming an All Star are pretty slim . Sure guys like Yolmer , Leury , Delmonico and and the outfielder bunch may prove useful players but you really need some All Stars in the line up to be competitive.

Edited February 13, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[OmarComing25]

I already said I don't know who would benefit the Sox the most and also mentioned a starting pitcher. Arrieta is trending down , Alex Cobb, Lance Lynn, Andrew Cashner ?

I love JD Martinez the guy hit 29 HR's in only 62 games with the D'backs and had a .714 Slg. % which is just crazy.. l know even at this point the best FA's still won't be cheap especially since Boras is the agent for many of the good ones still out there.

 

I don't think the Sox have much of a chance at Machado and Donaldson will be too old. Arenado is a free agent in 2019 but he agreed to terms with the Rockies before so it could happen again so Moustaskas might not be a bad idea. Filling 3rd base will probably be hardest for the Sox and he is left handed and among the younger free agents . So a starting pitcher, and some middle of the order bats, one lefty one righty, and one who fills 2 glaring holes ( LH power and 3rd base). More quality BP arms wouldn't hurt either but that yacht seems to have saled early. Fill some holes now and some later . that's really how it should be. The chances of anyone besides the top prospects becoming an All Star are pretty slim . Sure guys like Yolmer , Leury , Delmonico and and the outfielder bunch may prove useful players but you really need some All Stars in the line up to be competitive.

Sure but Moustakas isn't an All-Star level player, especially considering that it's likely that his two best years of any contract we sign him will probably be wasted.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The idea on paper makes sense. But who are these players?

 

Most agree that 2020 is when the Sox will be ready to truly compete. That's another two seasons. If you are signing a bigger name FA who you think you may be getting on a discount, you're not signing them to produce in the 2018 and 2019 season. It's for 2020 and beyond. So what players out there right now are you paying that you feel comfortable about them producing at a high level in 2020, 2021 and beyond?

 

Again, I understand your point and I think it has some merit, but who are the specific players that fit that bill?

The problem is always finding the perfect fit and I am fully aware that there is no perfect free agents out there but will there ever be? Yes might be better to wait but if there ends up being too many holes to fill then what? What if you swing and miss on all your future targets? I think you have to hedge your bets somewhat by signing guys who may not be "perfect fits" to attract future guys who are better fits but want to play on a winning team.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I never even mentioned the "perfect fit". I don't think there is ever really a true "perfect fit" type player, too many variables at play.

 

Again, I understand your idea but if the players you want to sign don't really exist in this market then the argument doesn't hold much water, I guess that's my point. I see posters say "I want ownership to spend money! This is ridiculous!" and when you ask what players would fit in the Sox plan......they go dark.

 

And to your last part, in the end money talks. If the Sox want their guys, offer the most money. That usually ends up well.

I know you didn't say perfect fit but that seems to be the thinking now considering the window of competitiveness is projected to be 2020 and beyond. To me it's a real concern that so many things can turn a rebuild projected to last 4 years into chaos. JR dies, a player strike an arm injury to Kopech, Eloy or Moncada not being the beasts they are projected to be , recent draftees not developing etc.

 

Also the idea that signing guys now don't fit that mythical window sort of make me cringe. There is only one World Series winner every year and many many players best years are wasted on those teams that don't win it. Yes offering the most money usually works especially if you are the Yankees or Dodgers, teams with winning traditions. This is the White Sox we are talking about. Outbidding teams that are already gearing up for impending free agents is going to be a major crap shoot and one I don't expect the Sox to win,not because I don't think the Sox will be willing to spend but because it's just not feasible to think that it will go well for the Sox. Plan B has to be in the works now. Counting on no injuries, offering the most money for free agents and current prospects to be what we wish them to be all coming together perfectly doesn't hold much water either.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Again, we don't really disagree in principle.

 

The issue I have is specifically this off-season. You want to plug in some holes now. OK, I can see the merit behind that. Who are the players? I just don't see many that make sense. I'm not trying to say "STICK TO THE PLAN AT ALL COSTS". If something makes sense, they should do it. I just don't see it with the group of players that are out there right now and how they line up with the Sox timeline.

I think we are thinking along the same lines and you didn't say perfect fit but you are definitely implying it with "if something makes sense" and "how they line up with the Sox timeline" . I mentioned another starting pitcher , JD Martinez and Moustakas as possible fits in positions the Sox might have needs to hedge their bets against prospect or signing free agent disasters. I know they won't be cheap but I think we have to understand that maybe you can get those 2 for less years and approximately the same cost as you would pay for someone like Machado, Arenado or Harper who we're not going to have much of a shot at anyway.

 

I really do understand that playing who we have now still might be the most prudent course of action but I also think in a down market you might have to pounce if opportunities present themselves and take your chances that guys are Martinez and Moustakas are good enough to get some productive years in at the beginning of that competitive window just as the Sox will be taking chances that a 4 year rebuild is not disrupted by JR dying, a players strike, injuries. inability to sign key free agents and bad player development.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That also may be why we disagree a bit, I don't think I'd want the Sox to sign either guy if they were right in the middle of their competitive window.

 

Moose and his career .305 OBP scares the hell out of me. I like JD Martinez, but the huge "contract year" really scares the hell out of me. But if the price was right I would understand it.

See first it was the has to make sense and fit the timeline and now its things about the players scare the hell out of you. We are putting up these boundaries that only leave the option of a perfect rebuild and that scares me and I don't like it much is where I'm at.The Sox lack of success in position player development and all the other things that I already mentioned multiple times scares me a lot more than getting established All Star players when they are readily available in a down market and the payroll can easily afford them. It's a perfect opportunity . Will it be a risk ? Sure it will be but expecting a clockwork rebuild in my eyes is a way bigger risk.

Edited February 13, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dam8610]

Arenado is a free agent in 2019 but he agreed to terms with the Rockies before so it could happen

 

Unless you've got some insider information no one else knows, this isn't true. Arenado is still scheduled to be a free agent after the 2019 season, and I think the Sox will get one of he or Machado.

[Chicago White Sox]

There's nothing wrong with signing a free agent this off-season if it's the right fit. Hell, Wellington Castillo is the perfect example of that and made a ton of sense as a short-term transition option to Collins/Zavala.

 

I just don't think locking in an average at best 3B like Moustakas makes a lot of sense right now. Plan A for 3B should Manny Machado next off-season. Plan B could be Josh Donaldson based on the price/years. Plan C could be Yolmer for a year and then a run Arenado. If you can't land any of those impact free agents, then trade for or sign someone on a shorter-term deal and hope Burger is a fast mover. Point is there are too many attractive alternatives over the next couple of off-seasons to lock in a passable one today. And quite frankly, I'm not sure Moustakas would be that much of an upgrade of Sanchez.

 

The one guy I'd still be open to signing right now is JDM. He's a legit difference maker with the bat and can instantly change the complexion of our lineup. If I can get him at an affordable price, I'm willing to make that move now.

[Bob Sacamano]

There's nothing wrong with signing a free agent this off-season if it's the right fit. Hell, Wellington Castillo is the perfect example of that and made a ton of sense as a short-term transition option to Collins/Zavala.

 

I just don't think locking in an average at best 3B like Moustakas makes a lot of sense right now. Plan A for 3B should Manny Machado next off-season. Plan B could be Josh Donaldson based on the price/years. Plan C could be Yolmer for a year and then a run Arenado. If you can't land any of those impact free agents, then trade for or sign someone on a shorter-term deal and hope Burger is a fast mover. Point is there are too many attractive alternatives over the next couple of off-seasons to lock in a passable one today. And quite frankly, I'm not sure Moustakas would be that much of an upgrade of Sanchez.

 

The one guy I'd still be open to signing right now is JDM. He's a legit difference maker with the bat and can instantly change the complexion of our lineup. If I can get him at an affordable price, I'm willing to make that move now.

 

JDM is the only one I am open to, personally.

Edited February 13, 2018 by soxfan2014

[caulfield12]

Not being a believer in Tilson, I would be for playing Dyson out in CF to give some added confidence (two year deal, or one plus an option) to the young pitchers while awaiting the arrival of Robert in 2019/2020.

He has consistently been worth nearly 2.5-3 on defensive war alone, and could be had for almost nothing.

 

Of course, we can argue over Leury Garcia outproducing him, but that’s only if he can stay healthy. We can also argue about blocking time for Cordell. And is Leury really a long-term piece? Most would argue no.

 

At any rate, on the same deal or less than Derek Holland signed, it would be a good move to add some veteran, multiple World Series-experienced leadership to help lead the youngsters, especially if they jettison Abreu.

Edited February 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Unless you've got some insider information no one else knows, this isn't true. Arenado is still scheduled to be a free agent after the 2019 season, and I think the Sox will get one of he or Machado.

It isn't true that he COULD (meaning it's possible) isn't true? All I suggested was it's possible and I don't need insider info for that. You really think the Sox get Arenado or Machado ? I think the odds are very long that happens. We shall see.

[Steve9347]

Why not just sign Jose Bautista.

[caulfield12]

Why not just sign Jose Bautista.

 

Age 37 and huge declines over the last two consecutive years, that’s why.

 

If it wasn’t so obvious, the Blue Jays would bring back their own borderline HoF hitter at this point in his career. They must think he’s done, too.

 

The upside over Davidson/Delmonico/Cordell/any random Garcia just isn’t there.

Edited February 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

There's nothing wrong with signing a free agent this off-season if it's the right fit. Hell, Wellington Castillo is the perfect example of that and made a ton of sense as a short-term transition option to Collins/Zavala.

 

I just don't think locking in an average at best 3B like Moustakas makes a lot of sense right now. Plan A for 3B should Manny Machado next off-season. Plan B could be Josh Donaldson based on the price/years. Plan C could be Yolmer for a year and then a run Arenado. If you can't land any of those impact free agents, then trade for or sign someone on a shorter-term deal and hope Burger is a fast mover. Point is there are too many attractive alternatives over the next couple of off-seasons to lock in a passable one today. And quite frankly, I'm not sure Moustakas would be that much of an upgrade of Sanchez.

 

The one guy I'd still be open to signing right now is JDM. He's a legit difference maker with the bat and can instantly change the complexion of our lineup. If I can get him at an affordable price, I'm willing to make that move now.

At least we agree on JDM but it wasn't long ago most of the board thought Yolmer was at best a utility guy and many still hold that opinion. Moustakas has been an All Star 2 of the last 3 years and the one year he didn't make it he was injured.Is that really average AT BEST or are we looking at his WAR to determine that ?

 

With all the arguments against signing aging vets what makes Donaldson so attractive? He will be in age 33 season for the 2019 season . Donaldson had his MVP season at 29 . Sure Yolmer could field the position well but he never will be a middle of the order bat and counting on Burger to be a fast developer and sticking at 3rd base isn't a good plan either. I don't want to sound too high on Moustaskas because he surely has his warts but again LH power middle of the order bats haven't exactly grown on trees for the Sox. If plan A is Machado prepare to be disappointed if he is truly serious about sticking at SS and with the big boys trying to make room for the impact free agents.

I'm anticipating a big hole at 3rd base because all your plans leave a lot to be desired and I'd rather take my chances on Moustakas if the price/years are right this year.

 

If JDM is a legit difference maker and can change the complexion of your lineup then adding another 35 HR guy like Moustaskas can upgrade legit to contender maybe by 2019 instead of 2020.

[WBWSF]

Some concerns that haven't been addressed. If the Sox do spend next off season because of the amount of quality free agents on the market shouldn't they be taking advantage of the market now while it's cold and prices are down? I don't know who might benefit the Sox the most at this time but free agents next year will want 2 things, money and to be on a winning team. Should n't the Sox do something to make the team more competitive to next years crop of free agents ?

 

Shields should be off the books next year so might another starting pitcher benefit them ? Relying only on young starting pitching even if the target date is 2020 is risky business, Also if the target date is truly 2020 isn't it also risky business to expect next years good crop of FA's to wait a year or even possibly longer to be on a winning team? The Phillies might be thinking along those lines with the signing of Santana and still are rumored to have interest in a starting pitcher.

 

The Sox might end up with too many holes to fill when they actually do decide to spend and the competition for the top free agents will be fierce so being a competitive team would surely work in their favor just as being a few years away will work against them.

 

Other concerns for the rebuild is what happens if JR dies suddenly or the players strike after the 2021 season which would be right in the middle of the supposed window of competitiveness if all goes right ? Obviously the 1st concern is the most pressing but these other 2 things could easily happen and in the event of JR's sudden death how does the rebuild survive ? We should all remember 1994 when Frank Thomas was having a career year and the players strike possibly robbed the Sox of competing for a World title.

I think your post is wonderful. Problem is, I don't expect the White Sox to spend any money this 2018 season nor in 2019.

 

[Steve9347]

Age 37 and huge declines over the last two consecutive years, that’s why.

 

If it wasn’t so obvious, the Blue Jays would bring back their own borderline HoF hitter at this point in his career. They must think he’s done, too.

 

The upside over Davidson/Delmonico/Cordell/any random Garcia just isn’t there.

I accept this response.