White Sox interested in adding a DH

[Chicago White Sox]

At least we agree on JDM but it wasn't long ago most of the board thought Yolmer was at best a utility guy and many still hold that opinion. Moustakas has been an All Star 2 of the last 3 years and the one year he didn't make it he was injured.Is that really average AT BEST or are we looking at his WAR to determine that ?

 

With all the arguments against signing aging vets what makes Donaldson so attractive? He will be in age 33 season for the 2019 season . Donaldson had his MVP season at 29 . Sure Yolmer could field the position well but he never will be a middle of the order bat and counting on Burger to be a fast developer and sticking at 3rd base isn't a good plan either. I don't want to sound too high on Moustaskas because he surely has his warts but again LH power middle of the order bats haven't exactly grown on trees for the Sox. If plan A is Machado prepare to be disappointed if he is truly serious about sticking at SS and with the big boys trying to make room for the impact free agents.

I'm anticipating a big hole at 3rd base because all your plans leave a lot to be desired and I'd rather take my chances on Moustakas if the price/years are right this year.

 

If JDM is a legit difference maker and can change the complexion of your lineup then adding another 35 HR guy like Moustaskas can upgrade legit to contender maybe by 2019 instead of 2020.

Couple thoughts here. I'm just not personally a big fan of what Moustakes brings to the table. The left-handed power is nice, but he's always been a relatively low OBP player. His defense appears to be on the decline as well. That's not to say he can't be a useful player, but I really don't want to commit fairly big dollars to a guy who will probably be a 2 WAR/year player over the next four or five years.

 

As for Donaldson, the dude is actually a really good athlete and has remained incredibly productive through his age 32 season. He can actually regress and still remain a valuable player. Hell, he could probably be moved to 1B at the end of a deal and still be a valuable contributor. Again, with Donaldson it all comes down to the money & years. If I can get him for five years or less (which remains to be seen), I could be willing to roll the dice if I miss out on Machado. I think Donaldson is likely to provide much more value from 2019 to 2022 than Moustakes even he ultimately costs more. And at this point in the rebuild, I'd rather gamble on upside than certainty when it comes to free agents.

[wrathofhahn]

We have so much depth in the OF and kids coming down the pike. JDM is going to take 5 years do we really want him clogging DH for that long?

 

3B I at least understand we have Burger but really noone else and Burger can be moved to 1B or DH if he hits enough in the ML to earn a call up

 

If anything we should be looking to move OF off our ML to make space for some of the kids next year.

Edited February 13, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Bob Sacamano]

Couple thoughts here. I'm just not personally a big fan of what Moustakes brings to the table. The left-handed power is nice, but he's always been a relatively low OBP player. His defense appears to be on the decline as well. That's not to say he can't be a useful player, but I really don't want to commit fairly big dollars to a guy who will probably be a 2 WAR/year player over the next four or five years.

 

As for Donaldson, the dude is actually a really good athlete and has remained incredibly productive through his age 32 season. He can actually regress and still remain a valuable player. Hell, he could probably be moved to 1B at the end of a deal and still be a valuable contributor. Again, with Donaldson it all comes down to the money & years. If I can get him for five years or less (which remains to be seen), I could be willing to roll the dice if I miss out on Machado. I think Donaldson is likely to provide much more value from 2019 to 2022 than Moustakes even he ultimately costs more. And at this point in the rebuild, I'd rather gamble on upside than certainty when it comes to free agents.

 

I really wouldn't hate signing Donaldson (as of right now). He only had the one injury plagued season last year. Guy's good and I think he will age fine through his age 33-36/37 seasons.

Edited February 13, 2018 by soxfan2014

[OmarComing25]

Donaldson will be a bit old but I think he'll age well enough and it's not like the Cubs or Astros didn't have older guys play instrumental roles in their title runs.

[Lip Man 1]

Problem is, I don't expect the White Sox to spend any money this 2018 season nor in 2019.

 

You were also saying ad naseum that JR was going to be selling the team.

 

How's that worked out for you?

 

We'll see how your latest "prediction" turns out. My guess...you come out wrong again.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

We have so much depth in the OF and kids coming down the pike. JDM is going to take 5 years do we really want him clogging DH for that long?

 

3B I at least understand we have Burger but really noone else and Burger can be moved to 1B or DH if he hits when he comes up

 

If anything we should be looking to move OF off our ML to make space for some of the kids next year.

JDM is an elite hitter. Do you think the Red Sox regret having David Ortiz as their DH all those years? At the right price, I'm 100% for it. Don't really see who'd he be blocking at DH. The OFs you refer to hopefully remain OFs. If we have too many of them, we should trade the excess ones to fill other needs. I'm ok with using a rotating DH this year if need be, but generally speaking I prefer a guy who can handle that role on an everyday basis. Don't really want to trot slightly above league average hitters out of that spot if I don't have to.

[Jack Parkman]

Machado's career .329 OBP scares the living crap out of me, as well as that most of his WAR value comes from his defense. His profile doesn't seem like it will age gracefully. Honestly, I'd rather have Moustakas at 5/75 than Machado at 10/350. Way too much risk with Machado. If I were Hahn, next season would be Harper or Bust for me.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Bob Sacamano]

Machado's career .329 OBP scares the living crap out of me, as well as that most of his WAR value comes from his defense. His profile doesn't seem like it will age gracefully. Honestly, I'd rather have Moustakas at 5/75 than Machado at 10/350. Way too much risk with Machado. If I were Hahn, next season would be Harper or Bust for me.

 

We definitely have to wait and see how he bounces back from last season (granted, it was only the first half he stunk in).

[Chicago White Sox]

Machado's career .329 OBP scares the living crap out of me, as well as that most of his WAR value comes from his defense. His profile doesn't seem like it will age gracefully. Honestly, I'd rather have Moustakas at 5/75 than Machado at 10/350. Way too much risk with Machado. If I were Hahn, next season would be Harper or Bust for me.

I'm not sure looking at career stats for a 25 year who is a year away from free agency is fair. Look at his OBP by year:

 

2012: .294

2013: .314

2014: .324

2015: .359

2016: .343

2017: .310

 

Clearly there was an adjustment period at the start of his career which makes sense given most kids his age are in A ball. And obviously last year is a clear outlier. A .350 OBP is perfectly fine for a player with his power and that's basically what he was in 2015 & 2016.

 

As for the potential risk of signing Machado, I really think his next contract will include an opt-out after four years or so and that he'll most certainly exercise it. Sure, there is always the chance he becomes the next Jason Heyward, but I just don't see that being remotely possible with Manny. Assuming he rebounds in 2018, I'm all in on signing him to a 10/$350M. Can't be afraid to sign star players entering their prime if we actually want to a win a World Series.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Jack Parkman]

I'm not sure looking at career stats for a 25 year who is a year away from free agency is fair. Look at his OBP by year:

 

2012: .294

2013: .314

2014: .324

2015: .359

2016: .343

2017: .310

 

Clearly there was an adjustment period at the start of his career which makes sense given most kids his age are in A ball. And obviously last year is a clear outlier. A .350 OBP is perfectly fine for a player with his power and that's basically what he was in 2015 & 2016.

 

As for the potential risk of signing Machado, I really think his next contract will include an opt-out after four years or so and that he'll most certainly exercise it. Sure, there is always the chance he becomes the next Jason Heyward, but I just don't see that being remotely possible with Manny. Assuming he rebounds in 2018, I'm all in on signing him to a 10/$350M. Can't be afraid to sign star players entering their prime if we actually want to a win a World Series.

Nah, to me his 15-16 looks like the outlier. This year is huge for Machado. If he has an obp in the .310-.330 range again he's not going to get a contract over $200 million

[Chicago White Sox]

Nah, to me his 15-16 looks like the outlier. This year is huge for Machado. If he has an obp in the .310-.330 range again he's not going to get a contract over $200 million

What? How do those seasons look like outliers? The kid was 20 to 22 years from 2012 to 2014. He should have been in low A to AA with even an aggressive development curve. To think he'd actually get materially better with more major league seasoning and as his body developed shouldn't be surprising to anyone. And that's exactly what happened. As for 2017, his BABIP was clearly an outlier and roughly 30 points than his worst season ever. He clearly had a bad first half, but part of that was driven by bad luck. Regardless, I don't how you could possibly think his 2015 & 2016 seasons were outliers by any readily available data.

[Jack Parkman]

What? How do those seasons look like outliers? The kid was 20 to 22 years from 2012 to 2014. He should have been in low A to AA with even an aggressive development curve. To think he'd actually get materially better with more major league seasoning and as his body developed shouldn't be surprising to anyone. And that's exactly what happened. As for 2017, his BABIP was clearly an outlier and roughly 30 points than his worst season ever. He clearly had a bad first half, but part of that was driven by bad luck. Regardless, I don't how you could possibly think his 2015 & 2016 seasons were outliers by any readily available data.

I'm not completely discounting those seasons. It does make sense. Normal progression is a possibility. However by the definition of outlier there are 6 seasons of data and 4 are very similar, two are not. I'm taking it literally there. Which is why this season is huge. He was in the bigs, you can't just throw out his first 2 seasons because he was young for the bigs. This is all of the data we have to go on.

 

Maybe I'm just not willing to gamble that much on him being better in the future. It probably won't matter anyway because the jankees will give him a blank check.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[WBWSF]

You were also saying ad naseum that JR was going to be selling the team.

 

How's that worked out for you?

 

We'll see how your latest "prediction" turns out. My guess...you come out wrong again.

I said he's going to sell the team and we will have a new owner in 2020. We'll see. In the meantime the White Sox payroll will continue to go down the next 2 seasons.

 

[WBWSF]

In case some people don't understand what I think about the future of this team, this is how I see this playing out. JR is not going to spend any money on this team the next 2 seasons. The White Sox will have one of the lowest if not the lowest payrolls in MLB. He will put the team up for sale sometime in 2019 and the new owner will takeover in 2020. The new owner will be buying a White Sox team with a low payroll and no big long term contracts on the books. The value of the team increases with no big money on the books. JR bought the White Sox in 1981 with those same circumstances. In the meantime the next 2 seasons the team is going to be "Mired In Mediocrity" again.

[OmarComing25]

Nah, to me his 15-16 looks like the outlier. This year is huge for Machado. If he has an obp in the .310-.330 range again he's not going to get a contract over $200 million

xStats has his expected 2017 batting line at .291/.340/.542, and considering his BABIP was 40 points below his career average and his exit velocity was elite I'm inclined to think he was just unlucky last year.

[Dam8610]

It isn't true that he COULD (meaning it's possible) isn't true? All I suggested was it's possible and I don't need insider info for that. You really think the Sox get Arenado or Machado ? I think the odds are very long that happens. We shall see.

 

Sorry, I read your wording wrong, thought you meant he had signed and so wouldn't be a free agent after 2019. As for my theory on Machado and Arenado, 3B is the area that the White Sox have seemingly left open in this rebuild (I'm not personally a big believer in Burger, I think he has a 50/50 shot of sticking at 3B at best, and he's pretty much the org depth ast the position), and it just seems too coincidental to me that Machado and Arenado will be free agents in the years that lead into the White Sox contention window. I think they planned to make a run at one or both.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

In case some people don't understand what I think about the future of this team, this is how I see this playing out. JR is not going to spend any money on this team the next 2 seasons. The White Sox will have one of the lowest if not the lowest payrolls in MLB. He will put the team up for sale sometime in 2019 and the new owner will takeover in 2020. The new owner will be buying a White Sox team with a low payroll and no big long term contracts on the books. The value of the team increases with no big money on the books. JR bought the White Sox in 1981 with those same circumstances. In the meantime the next 2 seasons the team is going to be "Mired In Mediocrity" again.

Hmmm, interesting that the Tribune Company executed the exact opposite strategy when they sold the Cubs.

 

And why does having no money on the books increase the team’s overall value? 90% of potential owners are buying a team because they want to actually win a championship. Therefore, I’d think most of these guys would prefer having a quality team in place rather than having limited payroll commitments. And do you know what would really improve the team’s value? How about a new TV deal that provides this new owner with significant fixed income. That’s going to be nearly impossible if their plan is to cut payroll even further next season.

 

The good news is your theory makes zero sense and I’m 99.9% it will never happen.

 

[WBWSF]

Hmmm, interesting that the Tribune Company executed the exact opposite strategy when they sold the Cubs.

 

And why does having no money on the books increase the team’s overall value? 90% of potential owners are buying a team because they want to actually win a championship. Therefore, I’d think most of these guys would prefer having a quality team in place rather than having limited payroll commitments. And do you know what would really improve the team’s value? How about a new TV deal that provides this new owner with significant fixed income. That’s going to be nearly impossible if their plan is to cut payroll even further next season.

 

The good news is your theory makes zero sense and I’m 99.9% it will never happen.

What makes you think this team is going to get a big TV deal? They can't even get a radio deal now.

 

[southsider2k5]

Hmmm, interesting that the Tribune Company executed the exact opposite strategy when they sold the Cubs.

 

And why does having no money on the books increase the team's overall value? 90% of potential owners are buying a team because they want to actually win a championship. Therefore, I'd think most of these guys would prefer having a quality team in place rather than having limited payroll commitments. And do you know what would really improve the team's value? How about a new TV deal that provides this new owner with significant fixed income. That's going to be nearly impossible if their plan is to cut payroll even further next season.

 

The good news is your theory makes zero sense and I'm 99.9% it will never happen.

 

Honestly I don't think it matters that much. Sports franchises are such a rare commodity that people bid insane amounts of money to get any one they can get their hands on. The pattern is the same whether the franchise is maxed out on payroll or stripped down and profitable.

[Chicago White Sox]

What makes you think this team is going to get a big TV deal? They can't even get a radio deal now.

They’ll get a “big” TV deal because sports are in demand for cable & satellite providers right now. While it will be nowhere near the size of the bigger ones a few teams have landed over the past few years, it should be an upgrade over what they’re currently getting today. And I hve no idea why radio has to do with anything. Radio isn’t really a huge source income anymore for the vast majority of teams.

[Lip Man 1]

In case some people don't understand what I think about the future of this team, this is how I see this playing out. JR is not going to spend any money on this team the next 2 seasons. The White Sox will have one of the lowest if not the lowest payrolls in MLB. He will put the team up for sale sometime in 2019 and the new owner will takeover in 2020. The new owner will be buying a White Sox team with a low payroll and no big long term contracts on the books. The value of the team increases with no big money on the books. JR bought the White Sox in 1981 with those same circumstances. In the meantime the next 2 seasons the team is going to be "Mired In Mediocrity" again.

 

This is total and complete nonsense. That's the polite way of putting it.

 

JR WILL NOT SELL, he's said that repeatedly, publicly. He is keeping this team until he is dead then his family will put it up for sale, period. End of discussion.

 

Tax purposes basically prohibit him from selling the club while he is alive. JR is a tax expert, he knows the rules and the loopholes.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand, honest question...not trying to be snarky.

 

I don't care much for JR myself, but he's bought in on the rebuild and the money WILL BE THERE starting next year. No guarantees they get anybody to sign with them but the offers will be out on the table and they will be aggressive.

[Kyyle23]

This is total and complete nonsense. That's the polite way of putting it.

 

JR WILL NOT SELL, he's said that repeatedly, publicly. He is keeping this team until he is dead then his family will put it up for sale, period. End of discussion.

 

Tax purposes basically prohibit him from selling the club while he is alive. JR is a tax expert, he knows the rules and the loopholes.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand, honest question...not trying to be snarky.

 

I don't care much for JR myself, but he's bought in on the rebuild and the money WILL BE THERE starting next year. No guarantees they get anybody to sign with them but the offers will be out on the table and they will be aggressive.

 

If you don’t want to listen, you don’t want to know

[Kyyle23]

What makes you think this team is going to get a big TV deal? They can't even get a radio deal now.

 

They had a radio deal, it isn’t their fault that Cumulus claimed bankruptcy one month before the season started

[southsider2k5]

This is total and complete nonsense. That's the polite way of putting it.

 

JR WILL NOT SELL, he's said that repeatedly, publicly. He is keeping this team until he is dead then his family will put it up for sale, period. End of discussion.

 

Tax purposes basically prohibit him from selling the club while he is alive. JR is a tax expert, he knows the rules and the loopholes.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand, honest question...not trying to be snarky.

 

I don't care much for JR myself, but he's bought in on the rebuild and the money WILL BE THERE starting next year. No guarantees they get anybody to sign with them but the offers will be out on the table and they will be aggressive.

 

Worth noting is that tax laws just changed for the much better... and if there is a new President and Congress in a couple of years, that might not last.

[WBWSF]

This is total and complete nonsense. That's the polite way of putting it.

 

JR WILL NOT SELL, he's said that repeatedly, publicly. He is keeping this team until he is dead then his family will put it up for sale, period. End of discussion.

 

Tax purposes basically prohibit him from selling the club while he is alive. JR is a tax expert, he knows the rules and the loopholes.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand, honest question...not trying to be snarky.

 

I don't care much for JR myself, but he's bought in on the rebuild and the money WILL BE THERE starting next year. No guarantees they get anybody to sign with them but the offers will be out on the table and they will be aggressive.

What will be your opinion come Opening Day 2019 and the White Sox payroll is next to nothing?