2018 NFL off-season thread

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

It doesnt undercut the guarantee. The player is getting a windfall, they get paid by both teams.

This goes against pretty much all contract law. Not saying he isnt smart asking for it, but its not normal contract stuff. 

Common example is:

I have a lease for $1k a month. It has 10 months left. I breach the lease. My landlord then finds a new tenant immediately who pays them $900 per month. I am only liable for $100 per month, not the full $1k. 

That’s a bad example though. At that point though I have breached the lease I still have control over it. They couldn’t charge me and still rent it out.

If I hire a contractor and give them a deposit, then say I found another contractor and am not firing them in breach of contract, I don’t get to them demand a portion of his next job to pay me back for the deposit.

[Soxbadger]

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

That’s a bad example though. At that point though I have breached the lease I still have control over it. They couldn’t charge me and still rent it out.

If I hire a contractor and give them a deposit, then say I found another contractor and am not firing them in breach of contract, I don’t get to them demand a portion of his next job to pay me back for the deposit.

You have to take the breach part out because the Bears are able to do this.

So using your example, you wouldnt have to pay the old contractor for the full contract (even though he didnt do the work) plus the new contractor.

But that isnt really a good comparison, because in this case the old contractor is working for a different person and therefore is unable to work for you. The bottom line is that is very rare that you can get a windfall. Usually whatever is made is counted as a mitigation of damages/offset.

[LittleHurt05]

7 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

To be fair, their two top receivers last year were Josh Bellamy and Kendall Wright. They've added a ton of weapons, their rushing attack will be great and their coaching staff is exciting. It all, of course, lies on the shoulders of Trubisky, but if he's good, I think this year is a 8-10 win team and next year they're 10+ wins, assuming not a lot of significant injuries.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm optimistic, dare I say excited for Monday Night vs Seattle,  but Floyd is unguardable, Robinsons knee is pristine and Trubisky is so determined he quit social media. It doesn't help only the two HOF game teams have reported. Just like spring training fluff

[Brian]

I’m excited for this season but expectations are harnessed. 8-8 and Trubisky development  are good steps.

[Jack Parkman]

Listening to Laurence Holmes talk about Trubisky on the Score makes me feel better about what I said last year about Trubisky not having the "It" factor that the great ones have. No WOW moments. I said that and everyone thought I was nuts. Listening to him say it too makes me feel a lot better about having that opinion. I want to get excited about the Bears but I just can't. Their division and Trubisky being meh put the damper on it. Probably another 5-11 season coming. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

10 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Listening to Laurence Holmes talk about Trubisky on the Score makes me feel better about what I said last year about Trubisky not having the "It" factor that the great ones have. No WOW moments. I said that and everyone thought I was nuts. Listening to him say it too makes me feel a lot better about having that opinion. I want to get excited about the Bears but I just can't. Their division and Trubisky being meh put the damper on it. Probably another 5-11 season coming. 

I don't understand how anyone can come to that opinion already, I don't understand why anyone would value Laurence Holmes' opinion, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy about having that opinion.

[soxfan49]

11 hours ago, Brian said:

I’m excited for this season but expectations are harnessed. 8-8 and Trubisky development  are good steps.

Couldn't agree more.

 

11 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said:

I'm not gonna lie, I'm optimistic, dare I say excited for Monday Night vs Seattle,  but Floyd is unguardable, Robinsons knee is pristine and Trubisky is so determined he quit social media. It doesn't help only the two HOF game teams have reported. Just like spring training fluff

Yeah, the pass rush is the biggest issue in my eyes. Even if Floyd is healthy, he's one guy.

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

I don't understand how anyone can come to that opinion already, I don't understand why anyone would value Laurence Holmes' opinion, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy about having that opinion.

Why wouldn't you value Holmes' opinion? He was with the team every day for 3/4 of a decade. I'll ask the same question that he asked on his show: What, exactly, does he do on the field that makes you excited for him? I listened to the show and nobody could answer the question. Give me concrete football reasons. I'll listen with an open mind. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Why wouldn't you value Holmes' opinion? He was with the team every day for 3/4 of a decade. I'll ask the same question that he asked on his show: What, exactly, does he do on the field that makes you excited for him? I listened to the show and nobody could answer the question. Give me concrete football reasons. I'll listen with an open mind. 

I'm not sure how you could judge anything from his first year. His best receivers were Bellamy and Wright. He was allowed to throw the ball 3 times per game. His former head coach is unemployed and his former OC was demoted. His skill set and athleticism should excite you. His rumored work ethic should excite you. His poise should excite you. The fact that his teammates seemingly love him should excite you...or not, since Laurence Holmes, 670 the Score radio host and Bears pre/postgame host, think he won't be any good. I know that's how I base all my opinions: on the opinion of Laurence Holmes.

Edited July 21, 2018 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

I'm not sure how you could judge anything from his first year. His best receivers were Bellamy and Wright. He was allowed to throw the ball 3 times per game. His former head coach is unemployed and his former OC was demoted. His skill set and athleticism should excite you. His rumored work ethic should excite you. His poise should excite you. The fact that his teammates seemingly love him should excite you...or not, since Laurence Holmes, 670 the Score radio host and Bears pre/postgame host, think he won't be any good. I know that's how I base all my opinions: on the opinion of Laurence Holmes.

No, I held this opinion last year, and posted it on this board, way before Holmes said this. Great, He has the intangibles.  What does he do on a football field that excites you? Still waiting. 

I wrote the following after the game vs. New Orleans:

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Oct 29, 2017 -> 03:10 PM)

Yep. He doesn't have the "It" factor. We have ourselves another Cutler. Sigh. The great ones, even as rookies, found ways to win games they shouldn't. [/QUOTE]

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Brian]

Jack, are you an only child? Or youngest? Just curious.

[soxfan49]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

No, I held this opinion last year, and posted it on this board, way before Holmes said this. Great, He has the intangibles.  What does he do on a football field that excites you? Still waiting. 

I wrote the following after the game vs. New Orleans:

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Oct 29, 2017 -> 03:10 PM)

Yep. He doesn't have the "It" factor. We have ourselves another Cutler. Sigh. The great ones, even as rookies, found ways to win games they shouldn't. [/QUOTE]

 

Yeah, he lost by, what, 9 points on the road against a playoff team? What a loser!

He didn’t do anything on a football field because he wasn’t allowed to. Give up.

He has a ton of intangibles and is very raw. You assume guys like this progress, not regress like Jay did. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

Jack, are you an only child? Or youngest? Just curious.

Neither. I'm the oldest of 2. 

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is a classic message board debate, but one that simply doesn’t need to happen, or serve any purpose. 

Realistically, given the investment made to acquire him, Trubisky will have about the next 30 games until the Bears have to make a decision on who he is. Given the lack of weapons around him last season, his lack of college starts, and just his overall status as a rookie last season, there just isn’t a point in picking a lane on Trubisky. No one, including you, has any real idea what he will be in the NFL.

This is the Bears QB position we're talking about. I will assume any QB acquired by the Bears via trade or FA sucks, and any QB drafted is a bust, until proven otherwise. Following that rule, Trubisky is a bust until he proves he isn't. Simple as that. The Bears don't get to have HOF QBs. It is a fact of life, like the Yankees being good, the Cubs choking and the LA Lakers getting all of the good free agents. The Cubs winning in 2016 broke the space-time continuum, which led to the alternate reality that we are living in, in which Don Trump is POTUS. We don't want to see what happens if the Bears get a HOF QB. it would lead to nuclear war. (the previous comment is obviously a joke) 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

I see having a rational discussion about the topic was pointless. I tried.

You didn't read where I said that the comment was a joke? I meant that the entire post was a joke. Do you not find self-deprecation funny? Sorry if I wasn't clear enough that the entire post was meant to be sarcastic/funny/a joke. 

I find it hard to get excited because I didn't even see flashes from Trubisky last year. I don't know how much of that was Fox having the kid gloves on and how much is him not being that good. I actually remain hopeful, but skeptical until I see those WOW moments. Honestly, there isn't enough body of work to say anything about him. Yes, Fox was painfully conservative. We really don't know anything about Trubisky other than he was a high draft pick. Still doesn't change that he hasn't shown much though at the NFL level. 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Kyyle23]

If you didn’t see flashes, then you truly were covering your eyes

[Jack Parkman]

31 minutes ago, Tony said:

So you agree it’s too early to proclaim anything...yet fine saying he’s another Cutler and doesn’t have the “it” factor.....

I haven't seen it yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. It doesn't mean that it is there either. I'm fine saying that until Mitch proves otherwise. 

All I've been saying really is the following:

1. Trubisky has been meh(I don't see how anyone can argue this point)

2. Fox/Loggains had the kid gloves on him, so we don't know if he can make all of the throws or not, or even read defenses properly

3. If what you see is what you get, prepare to be disappointed. 

4. Maybe having  an NFL caliber offense and weapons will bring out the talent that Pace saw , such that he absolutely had to move up to get him. 

I don't see what the big deal is saying that he has been meh and hasn't shown anything amazing is? 

I know Fox was painfully conservative, but you'd think they'd unleash him once in a while, right? 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

19 minutes ago, Tony said:

The issue is that’s not what you said, which is what led multiple posters questioning your original statement. 

You made a strong determination on Trubisky after his first season. You went out of your way to quote yourself: 

Yep. He doesn't have the "It" factor. We have ourselves another Cutler. Sigh. The great ones, even as rookies, found ways to win games they shouldn't. 

 

I don’t think a lot of people will argue that he wasn’t “amazing” last season and that he has a lot of room to grow, that is 100% correct. You decided to already classify his entire career as “another Cutler” and have determined that he doesn’t have the “it” factor. Those are two very different things. If you can’t see that, then it’s not worth having a further discussion about it.

I meant that in the following way: He could be solid, not spectacular, and massively disappointing if what you see is what you get. I have argued that teams overdraft QBs, need to stick to their board. Just because the position is the most important on the field, doesn't mean that you have to spend a top 5 pick on the best QBs in the class, regardless of whether or not you need one. GMs get fired all of the time because they overdraft QBs. If you have the top QB in the class graded as a mid-1st, and you need a QB, you should trade back and accumulate further assets, rather than waste a high pick on a QB just because he's the best in the class and you need one. GMs in previous years, especially in the 80s and 90s, used to be much more disciplined when it came to the QB position.  Something changed in the mid-late 00s. It is my opinion, that despite them being good, neither Goff or Wentz were top 20 prospects in the 2016 draft. It used to be a huge deal when there was more than one QB that was to be drafted in the top 10, and an even bigger deal when there was supposed to be 3 or more in the top 15. I'm not really complaining about them drafting Trubisky, I'm complaining where teams are drafting QBs that are late 1st-early 2nd prospects at best. They're taking them top 5, and that is bad. Trubisky was like the 25th-35th best prospect in that draft, and he was drafted 2nd overall. That is a crime against drafting. Stick. To. Your. Board. 

In the 80s and 90s, many times the 1st QB wouldn't come off the board until the late teens or 20s. Most years there were only 1-2 QBs taken in the 1st round. A lot of this has to do with my personal crusade against the overdrafting of quarterbacks. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[LittleHurt05]

12 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Couldn't agree more.

 

Yeah, the pass rush is the biggest issue in my eyes. Even if Floyd is healthy, he's one guy.

If Hicks keeps disrupting the middle like he did last year, it makes it so much easier on the edge rushers. Hicks was a beast in 2017

[soxfan49]

12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I meant that in the following way: He could be solid, not spectacular, and massively disappointing if what you see is what you get. I have argued that teams overdraft QBs, need to stick to their board. Just because the position is the most important on the field, doesn't mean that you have to spend a top 5 pick on the best QBs in the class, regardless of whether or not you need one. GMs get fired all of the time because they overdraft QBs. If you have the top QB in the class graded as a mid-1st, and you need a QB, you should trade back and accumulate further assets, rather than waste a high pick on a QB just because he's the best in the class and you need one. GMs in previous years, especially in the 80s and 90s, used to be much more disciplined when it came to the QB position.  Something changed in the mid-late 00s. It is my opinion, that despite them being good, neither Goff or Wentz were top 20 prospects in the 2016 draft. It used to be a huge deal when there was more than one QB that was to be drafted in the top 10, and an even bigger deal when there was supposed to be 3 or more in the top 15. I'm not really complaining about them drafting Trubisky, I'm complaining where teams are drafting QBs that are late 1st-early 2nd prospects at best. They're taking them top 5, and that is bad. Trubisky was like the 25th-35th best prospect in that draft, and he was drafted 2nd overall. That is a crime against drafting. Stick. To. Your. Board. 

In the 80s and 90s, many times the 1st QB wouldn't come off the board until the late teens or 20s. Most years there were only 1-2 QBs taken in the 1st round. A lot of this has to do with my personal crusade against the overdrafting of quarterbacks. 

You’re insinuating that Trubisky was a mid round value, yet after the draft a scout came out and said he was the top QB prospect since Luck.

And your opinion on Goff and Wentz has turned out to be wrong, so here’s to you hopefully being wrong on Trubisky.

[Chi Town Sox]

Well, seeing as there is about 11 minutes of actual game play in the average NFL game, here's a nearly 5 minute video of his highlights.  Of course there is work to do, he was a raw rookie on a bad offense with no real receiving weapons.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that now we have a legitimate (hopefully) modern offense.  He made several nice plays while in the pocket under pressure and maneuvering through pressure in several of these.  What's exciting?  Having a young quarterback that can make some of these plays on a bad offense is.  

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

I tend to think this year is going to be rougher than most, mainly because we are going to be running a pretty complex offense that puts a lot on a QB. Mitch is young and in a brand new system with a lot of new players.  I think the key is that he is consistently learning and building on his experience.  I expect some rough games, but hope as the season goes on we see good progress.  

[bmags]

I think there will definitely be games where it quick sands and everyone is poorly executing and one step off, but I'm very excited. They may also just end up with a solid base of plays that can exploit the bad defenses they face but for now can't overcome the better talent defenses, that would be an improvement. Being the best bad team isn't something they've been able to do for a while, and that can also get you in the playoffs (though maybe not in this division). I guess that's basically the lions.

[scs787]

 I think one things for certain, while they may not be great, this team SHOULD be a lot of fun to watch. Especially if White can do anything. 

 

4 wide sets with Robinson and Allen on the outside with Miller(who I love) and Gabriel in the slot and Cohen coming out of the back field should create at least one favorable matchup somewhere. Then you throw in Burton and Shaheen to the mix and if Nagy is who we hope, and he can take advantage of mismatches, this offense, if healthy could be scary. 

 

I think the Bears are at the same place as the Bulls right now. Assuming health they will be at the very least a fun team to watch.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, scs787 said:

 I think one things for certain, while they may not be great, this team SHOULD be a lot of fun to watch. Especially if White can do anything. 

 

4 wide sets with Robinson and Allen on the outside with Miller(who I love) and Gabriel in the slot and Cohen coming out of the back field should create at least one favorable matchup somewhere. Then you throw in Burton and Shaheen to the mix and if Nagy is who we hope, and he can take advantage of mismatches, this offense, if healthy could be scary. 

 

I think the Bears are at the same place as the Bulls right now. Assuming health they will be at the very least a fun team to watch.

I agree with the comparison. The problem is assuming health is an assumption that with these teams and these rosters seems to be a pretty big stretch.