Yu Darvish to Cubs

[Jerksticks]

Great points above. I feel like our window will be open much longer than the cubs’. The waves of arms will just keep coming.

[steveno89]

Great points above. I feel like our window will be open much longer than the cubs’. The waves of arms will just keep coming.

 

I’m skeptical that we will be able to replicate the cubs success until we see these top prospects producing. The talent is there, but they did not miss too many times. I’m absolutely willing to be patient, but the front office better be aggressive when the time comes.

[Balta1701]

Great points above. I feel like our window will be open much longer than the cubs’. The waves of arms will just keep coming.

See, I disagree. I think that by 2020, we're going to be feeling pressure to do exactly the kind of move the Cubs did with Torres....and it will be the right move. We'll be sitting there with a 95 win team saying "What do we need to win the world series" and the answer will be "We're going to have to trade Cease to bring back this one huge piece" or something like that. And it's going to be the right move too, but it's going to cost us the ability to stay in things when 2022 or 2023 come around. We'll have about a 3-4 year window, with 2020 being the sweet spot of Moncada and Jiminez still cheap but enough talent to make trades.

[southsider2k5]

Great points above. I feel like our window will be open much longer than the cubs'. The waves of arms will just keep coming.

 

Not a chance. We aren't going to spend anything like the Cubs have/will, and we don't have the depth of position players to overcome that.

[caulfield12]

And pitchers just don’t have the longevity anymore.

 

One more major Giolito injury and Lopez/Fulmer going to the bullpen and we’re suddenly back to Kopech/Hansen/Cease/Dunning and a bunch of unknowns, especially with Rodon’s status so up in the air. That would require filling at least one major rotation hole in free agency, instead of filling two holes in the starting lineup with the MLB equivalent of LBJ and Paul George.

 

If you could pencil in All Star next to Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon’s names in 2019, it would be much easier to feel 100% confident.

Edited February 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It hasn't been confirmed they offered 6 years but I assume the annual salary is the same with maybe a year or two less.

 

 

Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 16m16 minutes ago icymi, sources say cubs were willing to do the same six-year deal for arrieta that darvish took.

 

[longshot7]

It’s not even Jiminez, right now.

 

It’s being stuck with Zobrist/Heyward, a lack of elite arms after Edwards in the pen and the defensive hodgepodge that is Happ/Schwarber.

 

Their most desirable trade piece, Baez, is the one with the most positional versatility and best defender, so they can simply not afford to lose him. They really were fortunate to get Wade Davis for Soler last year, but a lot of other breaks have gone their way (Rizzo, Bryant draft, Kendricks, developing one of the best catchers in baseball internally, Lester connection to Epstein).

 

They also don’t have a true CFer or leadoff hitter.

 

And they lost Gleyber Torres for a closer who almost ended up costing them the title, bringing a domestic abuser into their midst before it really cost them with female Cubs’ fans like it MIGHT in a post #metoo world.

 

All those things said, it’s hard to imagine doing any better than 3 consecutive NL Champ series appearances and still having at least 4 or even 5 good shots to get back there again. And while the Brewers and Cards improved, the Pirates and Reds are two more small market teams who are being forced by circumstances to rebuild.

 

Last but not least, undo history and put the Astros back in the NL Central and you might not have a Cubs’ World Series title.

 

But we can do that same exercise with the 2004-2005 Chicago White Sox just as easily, if not moreso.

 

Some remotely competent Umpiring as well (or not as bluntly dirty) and they don't have a WS title either. They're not as good as they think they are, and I doubt they'll make the playoffs this year. Terrible pick-up.

[soxforlife05]

And pitchers just don’t have the longevity anymore.

 

One more major Giolito injury and Lopez/Fulmer going to the bullpen and we’re suddenly back to Kopech/Hansen/Cease/Dunning and a bunch of unknowns, especially with Rodon’s status so up in the air. That would require filling at least one major rotation hole in free agency, instead of filling two holes in the starting lineup with the MLB equivalent of LBJ and Paul George.

 

If you could pencil in All Star next to Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon’s names in 2019, it would be much easier to feel 100% confident.

 

You're assuming we forget how to develop high draft pick starting pitchers. That's always been this team's bread and butter and I don't see it changing as long as key personnel remain in place.

[Bob Sacamano]

 

Haha at the time I responded, the MLBTR article quotes said it wasn't for sure the same contract.

Edited February 13, 2018 by soxfan2014

[Bob Sacamano]

You're assuming we forget how to develop high draft pick starting pitchers. That's always been this team's bread and butter and I don't see it changing as long as key personnel remain in place.

 

Hopefully those high draft pick starting pitchers can stay on the field like Rodon. Health is always a factor.

[steveno89]

And pitchers just don’t have the longevity anymore.

 

One more major Giolito injury and Lopez/Fulmer going to the bullpen and we’re suddenly back to Kopech/Hansen/Cease/Dunning and a bunch of unknowns, especially with Rodon’s status so up in the air. That would require filling at least one major rotation hole in free agency, instead of filling two holes in the starting lineup with the MLB equivalent of LBJ and Paul George.

 

If you could pencil in All Star next to Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon’s names in 2019, it would be much easier to feel 100% confident.

 

Being realistic, I can see us being in the market for a significant position player, starting pitcher and bullpen help next offseason. Our payroll will be low enough to allow for several marquee signings to be made.

 

Ideally we can fill the rotation from within, I just doubt that happens without us going after a top free agent starter like Keuchel for example.

[caulfield12]

Britton, A.Miller, Familia, Cody Allen, Kimbrel, Joe Kelly, Robertson, Brach, Herrera...a lot of closers on the market next year.

 

Nathan Eovaldi would be another name to watch for conversion to the pen.

[bmags]

You're assuming we forget how to develop high draft pick starting pitchers. That's always been this team's bread and butter and I don't see it changing as long as key personnel remain in place.

 

Not sure Rodon and Fulmer are a feather in our cap at the moment.

[Bob Sacamano]

Not sure Rodon and Fulmer are a feather in our cap at the moment.

 

Yeah our only one that we have to fallback on currently is Sale. Not sure that makes it our "bread and butter" at the moment.

[Harry Chappas]

Yeah our only one that we have to fallback on currently is Sale. Not sure that makes it our "bread and butter" at the moment.

 

Quintana seemed to be developed rather nicely

[Bob Sacamano]

Quintana seemed to be developed rather nicely

 

The category was "high draft picks."

[Balta1701]

Quintana seemed to be developed rather nicely

Even given that, that was in 2012. The last time the White Sox successfully developed a starting pitcher was 2012.

 

In 2016, people were still talking about how the White Sox had a great record of developing pitching and we could continue to be competitive by developing that pitching and trading it for hitting. They hadn't developed a starter for 5 years at that point, and no Rodon didn't count because he was still struggling and now we've hit an injury wall.

 

Hopefully this changes with the influx of guys we just brought in and maybe Hansen is the draftee who turns the tide, but "developing pitching" hasn't been a regular strength of this franchise in nearly a decade.

[southsider2k5]

Even given that, that was in 2012. The last time the White Sox successfully developed a starting pitcher was 2012.

 

In 2016, people were still talking about how the White Sox had a great record of developing pitching and we could continue to be competitive by developing that pitching and trading it for hitting. They hadn't developed a starter for 5 years at that point, and no Rodon didn't count because he was still struggling and now we've hit an injury wall.

 

Hopefully this changes with the influx of guys we just brought in and maybe Hansen is the draftee who turns the tide, but "developing pitching" hasn't been a regular strength of this franchise in nearly a decade.

 

If this is true, the rebuild is a complete waste of time

[Balta1701]

Even given that, that was in 2012. The last time the White Sox successfully developed a starting pitcher was 2012.

 

In 2016, people were still talking about how the White Sox had a great record of developing pitching and we could continue to be competitive by developing that pitching and trading it for hitting. They hadn't developed a starter for 5 years at that point, and no Rodon didn't count because he was still struggling and now we've hit an injury wall.

 

Hopefully this changes with the influx of guys we just brought in and maybe Hansen is the draftee who turns the tide, but "developing pitching" hasn't been a regular strength of this franchise in nearly a decade.

 

 

If this is true, the rebuild is a complete waste of time

The fact that the White Sox couldn't develop any pitching was one of the great many things that sabotaged the 2015 and 2016 rosters. It absolutely needs to change right now. At least now they have some horses, but until a few guys turn their talent into big league success, we should be skeptical.

[southsider2k5]

The fact that the White Sox couldn't develop any pitching was one of the great many things that sabotaged the 2015 and 2016 rosters. It absolutely needs to change right now. At least now they have some horses, but until a few guys turn their talent into big league success, we should be skeptical.

 

If this part of a larger pattern, and we got through this process to have the pitching fail, this franchise is done for in Chicago. We pushed our chips in on developing pitching over position players by volume. It was literally the worst possible move if they can't develop pitching anymore.

[Sleepy Harold]

Contract details.

 

Bob Nightengale @BNightengale

now

Yu Darvish $126 million contract: $25 million in 2018; $20M in 2019; $22 M in 2020; $22 M in 2021; $19 million in 2022 and $18 million in 2023 He also has full no trade clause in first four years of deal. #Cubs

[Bob Sacamano]

Contract details.

 

Bob Nightengale @BNightengale

now

Yu Darvish $126 million contract: $25 million in 2018; $20M in 2019; $22 M in 2020; $22 M in 2021; $19 million in 2022 and $18 million in 2023 He also has full no trade clause in first four years of deal. #Cubs

 

Worth mentioning since people forget that his contract hits the luxury tax number on an annual basis so his contract hits at $21 million a year.

Edited February 13, 2018 by soxfan2014

[caulfield12]

Unless you’re talking about Kahnle and Swarzak as reclamation projects...? Minaya? Miguel Gonzalez?

 

Dunks and Rodon got hurt. What else can we go to, as illustrations, beyond Sale and Q? All the rookies and castoffs competing until mid-September, 2012?

 

Fulmer, until the last 4-6 weeks of this past season, was a huge disappointment. Adams and Tyler Danish. Dylan Covey spun his wheels. Chris Beck was supposedly Top 5-10 talent. We all know the James Shields/Tatis, Jr., story, that’s more on Hahn than Cooper, though.

 

Fwiw, Hansen might be the best development example (so far), with Dunning not far behind. Michael Kopech definitely took a huge (expected) step forward, too. The fact of the matter is the pitching talent level from 2012-16 was usually the excuse, so that’s going to get old fast if they don’t start producing some positive MLB results by the end of 2018.

 

For now, many are far from certain how real/repeatable those Giolito and Fulmer performances actually were. Lopez was expectedly inconsistent/erratic. A big bundle of ?’s.

Edited February 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Contract details.

 

Bob Nightengale @BNightengale

now

Yu Darvish $126 million contract: $25 million in 2018; $20M in 2019; $22 M in 2020; $22 M in 2021; $19 million in 2022 and $18 million in 2023 He also has full no trade clause in first four years of deal. #Cubs

 

so they set up his incentive to opt out after two years. This isn't a bad deal for the Cubs as long as Darvish's arm doesn't fall off at the end of year two.

[caulfield12]

I suppose we should add Reed, Santiago and Devenski to the White Sox pitching success stories list...the record is a lot more inspiring on the pitching side, even if it wasn’t always in Chicago.