Moustakas linked to Sox again

[Lillian]

If the Sox miss out on the Manny Machado "sweepstakes," and he signs with the Yankees, what about trying to acquire one of their promising third base prospects?

N.Y. could have a log jam, on the left side of their infield. Might Glyber Torres, or Andujar be worth pursuing, in a trade?.

[he gone.]

This post is off the top of my head... and without checking stats. So take it FWIW.

 

What do we really think our chances of signing Machado are? I think like some of players of past that we will make an EFFORT, but one where we ultimately will fall, very short. I can see JR throwing out like an 8 year, $210mm contract and the Yanks going to 9 years, $270mm and then the Sox turning around and being like, well, we tried!!

 

I really think the chances of Machado signing at like 5-10%.

 

 

At that point is anybody really confident with an aging Donaldson who, as he loses a step loses his defensive edge and probably his pop a bit.

 

Then you wait for Arenado and hope the Rockies don't resign him and also nobody else does too...

 

 

I can just see a situation where 2-4 years from now we are sitting around plugging in Mark Teahen like we have at 3B for the past 20 years (save for a few Crede years)

 

I'd be okay signing Moustakas as kind of a Todd Frazier plugging of a hole. It's not going to win you a championship in the long term, but it also eliminates a hole.

[Sleepy Harold]

This post is off the top of my head... and without checking stats. So take it FWIW.

 

What do we really think our chances of signing Machado are? I think like some of players of past that we will make an EFFORT, but one where we ultimately will fall, very short. I can see JR throwing out like an 8 year, $210mm contract and the Yanks going to 9 years, $270mm and then the Sox turning around and being like, well, we tried!!

 

I really think the chances of Machado signing at like 5-10%.

 

 

At that point is anybody really confident with an aging Donaldson who, as he loses a step loses his defensive edge and probably his pop a bit.

 

Then you wait for Arenado and hope the Rockies don't resign him and also nobody else does too...

 

 

I can just see a situation where 2-4 years from now we are sitting around plugging in Mark Teahen like we have at 3B for the past 20 years (save for a few Crede years)

 

I'd be okay signing Moustakas as kind of a Todd Frazier plugging of a hole. It's not going to win you a championship in the long term, but it also eliminates a hole.

The goal isn't to plug holes, it's to win championships. If this move won't help accomplish that, then why bother doing it?

Edited February 25, 2018 by Sleepy Harold

[wrathofhahn]

The goal isn't to plug holes, it's to win championships. If this move won't help accomplish that, then why bother doing it?

 

Because championship teams also plug holes. If it's a three year deal on a reasonable AAV something like 3/33 I'd do it

[Balta1701]

Because championship teams also plug holes. If it's a three year deal on a reasonable AAV something like 3/33 I'd do it

Plug the holes..when you're sure they're the right holes to plug. Treat our franchise like a blown tire right now; you don't just start applying patches to areas that you think look weird, you check for the location of the hole first before you plug it.

[Sleepy Harold]

 

Because championship teams also plug holes. If it's a three year deal on a reasonable AAV something like 3/33 I'd do it

That's an entirely different situation compared to the one that the Sox are currently in.

 

Plug the holes..when you're sure they're the right holes to plug. Treat our franchise like a blown tire right now; you don't just start applying patches to areas that you think look weird, you check for the location of the hole first before you plug it.

Exactly.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And to take it one step further, you’d be patching the tire with the limited amount of supplies left you have in your tool box. You could wait to fix it when you have more options available to you, or you could try and fix it now and hope to get lucky and it works.

 

It just is not nessesary right now

I do love the analogy . Kudos to Balta. Or you can also look at it this way: You can use the cheap stuff in the tool box that will plug the hole just fine but maybe not for as long as you would like and use the more expensive stuff you pick up later to plug the big holes that may be more of a detriment to your tire (pitching) .

 

I really do expect starting and relief pitching to be bigger holes. The starting staff will be very young and like we have seen in Rodon maybe injuries pop up. It's just inevitable one of Kopech, Giolito, Lopez Hansen Dunning Fulmer Cease get a major elbow or shoulder problem. It already happened to Burdi. And even if only one gets an injury we still have to anticipate some of them won't live up to expectations. Some will be mediocre, some bad, some useless, some may take longer to find their groove than others.

 

I know Balta has great hopes for the 2020 team but predicting world Series champions is like predicting earthquakes. Yea the Cubs and Astros have made it seem easy to our fan base but we might not get so lucky. Sure hope we do that's for sure but I don't expect smooth sailing.

 

[wrathofhahn]

Plug the holes..when you're sure they're the right holes to plug. Treat our franchise like a blown tire right now; you don't just start applying patches to areas that you think look weird, you check for the location of the hole first before you plug it.

 

I have pretty sure 3B is going to be a hole for awhile if not plugged

Edited February 26, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[tray]

Baltimore doesn't need Machado this season so I don't think they would be adverse to trading him. Maybe, just maybe, the Sox have enough decent prospects to make that trade without giving up (and of ) their top 5 or 6 prospects and impacting the rebuild. Perhaps it would take one of our roster players (Avi? Fulmer?) as part of a package for Manny. Once in the Sox fold, I think JR would be able to sign him long term. After seeing Burgur run out that triple like a fat-bottomed girl, I want the Sox to go after Machado like a beach.

Edited February 26, 2018 by miracleon35th

[Kyyle23]

Baltimore doesn't need Machado this season so I don't think they would be adverse to trading him. Maybe, just maybe, the Sox have enough decent prospects to make that trade without giving up (and of ) their top 5 or 6 prospects and impacting the rebuild. Perhaps it would take one of our roster players (Avi? Fulmer?) as part of a package for Manny. Once in the Sox fold, I think JR would be able to sign him long term. After seeing Burgur run out that triple like a fat-bottomed girl, I want the Sox to go after Machado like a beach.

 

No. Do not give anything up for him when he can walk at the end of the season

[tray]

No. Do not give anything up for him when he can walk at the end of the season

 

That is the counterpoint and a very legitimate one. Maybe I have too much confidence in JR's ability to sign a mega deal with a player like Machado or maybe I just want this guy on our team badly or maybe seeing Burgur's big azz running the bases scared me. Put Machado at third with the projected line-up we could have and the Sox start looking like a legit contender for a wild card in 2019.

 

[Kyyle23]

That is the counterpoint and a very legitimate one. Maybe I have too much confidence in JR's ability to sign a mega deal with a player like Machado or maybe I just want this guy on our team badly or maybe seeing Burgur's big azz running the bases scared me. Put Machado at third with the projected line-up we could have and the Sox start looking like a legit contender for a wild card in 2019.

 

If you have the confidence he can sign him to the deal, then you don’t want to give up what Baltimore is going to want. That guy is not going to be traded for a song . I want him too, but I want him to be part of a larger puzzle instead of the main piece

[Dick Allen]

I have pretty sure 3B is going to be a hole for awhile if not plugged

It is so much a hole, people are counting on the White Sox spending $350 million to fill it on a guy who wants to play SS., and for the Yankees. What can possibly go wrong with that plan?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

https://rotochamp.com/baseball/PlayerRankin...tType=RotoChamp

 

Daniel Pecota 3B rankings, Yolmer 40th, Davidson 52nd out of 124 ranked.

 

Moustakas 12th

 

Arenado 1, Bryant 2, Donaldson 3, Machado 6, Rendon 8th

 

Justin Turner, if the Dodgers let him go eventually or pursue one of the Big 4, is 9th. Then Devers and Beltre 10th and 11th. Moustakas followed by Travis Shaw, Seager (who some want to pursue), Castellanos, Longoria, Marwin Gonzalez, Eugenio Suarez, Zack Cozart.

 

Frazier 24th.

 

Moncada 22nd, Tim Anderson 20th, Abreu 6th, Leury 61 and Delmonico 64 for LF, Leury 55th for CF, W Garcia 81, Cordell 84, Engel and May 93/94 out of 96 for CF, Avi Garcia 17th for RF, W.Castillo 10th at catcher/TFlow 17th

 

So Moustakas would be the third highest ranked at his position on the Sox, after Abreu/Castillo...Avi 4th.

Edited February 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

https://rotochamp.com/baseball/PlayerRankin...tType=RotoChamp

 

Daniel Pecota 3B rankings, Yolmer 40th, Davidson 52nd out of 124 ranked.

 

Moustakas 12th

 

Arenado 1, Bryant 2, Donaldson 3, Machado 6, Rendon 8th

 

Justin Turner, if the Dodgers let him go eventually or pursue one of the Big 4, is 9th. Then Devers and Beltre 10th and 11th. Moustakas followed by Travis Shaw, Seager (who some want to pursue), Castellanos, Longoria, Marwin Gonzalez, Eugenio Suarez, Zack Cozart.

 

Frazier 24th.

 

Moncada 22nd, Tim Anderson 20th, Abreu 6th, Leury 61 and Delmonico 64 for LF, Leury 55th for CF, W Garcia 81, Cordell 84, Engel and May 93/94 out of 96 for CF, Avi Garcia 17th for RF, W.Castillo 10th at catcher/TFlow 17th

 

So Moustakas would be the third highest ranked at his position on the Sox, after Abreu/Castillo...Avi 4th.

These are fantasy baseball rankings. Are you really using them to justify a Moose signing?

[caulfield12]

These are fantasy baseball rankings. Are you really using them to justify a Moose signing?

 

You disagree with the Top 10?

 

Who/why?

[Bob Sacamano]

https://rotochamp.com/baseball/PlayerRankin...tType=RotoChamp

 

Daniel Pecota 3B rankings, Yolmer 40th, Davidson 52nd out of 124 ranked.

 

Moustakas 12th

 

Arenado 1, Bryant 2, Donaldson 3, Machado 6, Rendon 8th

 

Justin Turner, if the Dodgers let him go eventually or pursue one of the Big 4, is 9th. Then Devers and Beltre 10th and 11th. Moustakas followed by Travis Shaw, Seager (who some want to pursue), Castellanos, Longoria, Marwin Gonzalez, Eugenio Suarez, Zack Cozart.

 

Frazier 24th.

 

Moncada 22nd, Tim Anderson 20th, Abreu 6th, Leury 61 and Delmonico 64 for LF, Leury 55th for CF, W Garcia 81, Cordell 84, Engel and May 93/94 out of 96 for CF, Avi Garcia 17th for RF, W.Castillo 10th at catcher/TFlow 17th

 

So Moustakas would be the third highest ranked at his position on the Sox, after Abreu/Castillo...Avi 4th.

 

This isn't a huge accomplishment when you look at the projected Opening Day lineup.

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

ZiPS has him as basically a league average 3b in 2018, which considering the current roster would certainly represent a significant upgrade. Of course, they also have Yolmer as a well below average 3b FWIW.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?...0&sort=24,d

Edited February 26, 2018 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Chicago White Sox]

You disagree with the Top 10?

 

Who/why?

It’s fantasy baseball rankings. And it’s 5x5 scoring relying entirely on simple offensive metrics that don’t necessary correspond with value. The number one skill Yolmer brings to the table at 3B is his glove and that doesn’t matter at all in these rankings. It’s a completely ridiculous piece of evidence to justify any decision other than who draft at 3B in a 5x5 league. Your love of the Royals & desire for Moose is causing you to act irrational here.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

I’ll go back to the Dyson example, a consistently 2.5-3.5 war player the last 3-4 years.

2 years, $7.5 million, age 33

 

Todd Frazier, 24th at 3b, $17 million for 2 years, age 32

 

Avi Garcia, last year was the 4th-7th best RFer depending on which stat/service you chose, expected to regress to 17th, seems about right...doesn't it?

Edited February 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

I’ll go back to the Dyson example, a consistently 2.5-3.5 war player the last 3-4 years.

2 years, $7.5 million, age 33

 

Todd Frazier, 24th at 3b, $17 million for 2 years, age 32

 

Avi Garcia, last year was the 4th-7th best RFer depending on which stat/service you chose, expected to regress to 17th, seems about right...doesn't it?

I’m not sure what you’re asking me here in regard to Dyson & Frazier.

[Chicago White Sox]

For f***’s sake Caulfield, those rankings have JD Martinez over Stanton in RF. That tells me everything I need to know about the validity of using these for real world purposes.

[caulfield12]

For f***’s sake Caulfield, those rankings have JD Martinez over Stanton in RF. That tells me everything I need to know about the validity of using these for real world purposes.

 

Lots of players have struggled in NY, especially NL to AL...

 

Another example, David Price in Boston.

[Blackout Friday]

For f***’s sake Caulfield, those rankings have JD Martinez over Stanton in RF. That tells me everything I need to know about the validity of using these for real world purposes.

Or Andrelton Simmons ranked 17th at SS, sandwiched between Paul De Jong and Tim Beckham.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Blackout Friday

[caulfield12]

Or Andrelton Simmons ranked 17th at SS, sandwiched between Paul De Jong and Tim Beckham.

 

Obviously not overweighting defense.

 

But the White Sox have historically pursued how many elite defenders with limited offensive upsides to play half their games at USCF?