Moustakas linked to Sox again

[black jack]

I think there's less chance of Machado signing here than Harper and there's absolutely no chance with Harper.

If i'm wrong then i'll be dancing jigs all over my house.

 

Imo, we already have our Machado and Harper with #10 and #74 (that should prove my eternal optimism).

[Dick Allen]

But why does not anyone pin the legitimacy of the rebuild on signing Harper vs. signing Machado? Harper seems to be the better of the 2 to me, and he is never mentioned. Is there a $350 million cutoff of being cheap?

 

I guess the real question is why is everyone realistic about the chances of Harper being a White Sox, but no so much on Machado? 29 teams aren’t going to sign him, and most of those 29 teams aren’t cheap, could definitely use him, can fit ihim in the payroll, and are either in legit rebuilds or legitimately contenders.

 

Signing Machado should be like winning the lottery. Awesome if it happens, but counting on it is pretty silly.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[SoxAce]

Wasn't Harper the guy who blasted sox management on Twitter over the LaRoche (ex teammate/friend) situation? Yea, probably a good reason why he's not talked about around here. And I don't think the "money talks" will apply to Bryce either. He'll get his.

[Chicago White Sox]

If signing Machado is necessary for the rebuild to not be a fraud, there is a pretty good chance the rebuild will be a fraud.the rebuild is not a fraud. Being realistic has to come into this. So many people think Machado to the White Sox is going to happen. Why not Bryce Harper? The Sox could use him too? He is dismissed because people know there is no way. There might be a way with Machado, but the chances are very slim.

But it doesn’t have to be Machado. Donaldson, Arenado, & Rendon will also be options. The idea we can’t land any of those players is ridiculous. Who are all these teams that are going to outbid us? Once the Yankees land Machado in your scenario they’re out of the equation for the other guys. Maybe the Dodgers eat the last year of Turner’s deal and go after Arenado or Rendon? I honestly think if those two teams are out, we’re in a tremendous spot to land one of the remaining guys. And I’m not completely ruling out the idea we can compete with those teams for Machado or whoever their favorite is, but I’d literally take any of those four guys over Moose. I know the idea of Donaldson gets a lot of hate around here because he’s in his 30s, but the dude is an absolute stud and would be a great addition at the right price. Sure there would be risk, but playing it safe with a Moustakas signing is not how we’re going to compete with the Astros & Yankees.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Dick Allen]

Wasn't Harper the guy who blasted sox management on Twitter over the LaRoche (ex teammate/friend) situation? Yea, probably a good reason why he's not talked about around here. And I don't think the "money talks" will apply to Bryce either. He'll get his.

I don’t believe he blasted the White Sox.

[Dick Allen]

But it doesn’t have to be Machado. Donaldson, Arenado, & Rendon will also be options. The idea we can’t land any of those players is ridiculous. Who are all these teams that are going to outbid us? Once the Yankees land Machado in your scenario they’re out of the equation for the other guys. Maybe the Dodgers eat the last year of Turner’s deal and go after Arenado or Rendon? I honestly think if those two teams are out, we’re in a tremendous spot to land one of the remaining guys. And I’m not completely ruling out the idea we can compete with those teams for Machado or whoever their favorite is, but I’d literally take any of those four guys over Moose. I know the idea of Donaldson gets a lot of hate around here because he’s in his 30s, but the dude is an absolute stud and would be a great addition at the right price. Sure there would be risk, but playing it safe with a Moustakas signing is not how we’re going to compete with the Astros & Yankees.

But why don’t you ever mention Bryce Harper?who knows, Avi might return to the former Avi, the more people talk, the more Eloy is a LF.

 

Anyone would take those 4 over Moustakas. But, if your financial scenario is anywhere near correct, signing Moustakas doesn’t preclude going after any of them. You can always upgrade later and fit them in on the roster whether it is trading Moustakas, making him a DH, moving him to 1b because Abreu is no longer there....

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

But why don’t you ever mention Bryce Harper?who knows, Avi might return to the former Avi, the more people talk, the more Eloy is a LF.

I would go after Bryce Harper too, but 3B is a much bigger hole for the organization than the OF. And Harper is going to get an even more ridiculous contract than Machado.

[Dick Allen]

I would go after Bryce Harper too, but 3B is a much bigger hole for the organization than the OF. And Harper is going to get an even more ridiculous contract than Machado.

Might want to read this if you think Machado solves 3B. He plans to remain a SS.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...kees/347912002/

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone would take those 4 over Moustakas. But, if your financial scenario is anywhere near correct, signing Moustakas doesn’t preclude going after any of them. You can always upgrade later and fit them in on the roster whether it is trading Moustakas, making him a DH, moving him to 1b because Abreu is no longer there....

It’s not about the money, it’s the fact that Moustakas would be a bad 1B or DH. I just don’t see the allure of Moose unless you’re keeping him at 3B. And I don’t believe in buying average-ish players at this point in the rebuild, not when there are going to be four impact players hitting free agency when it makes more sense for us to spend.

[Dick Allen]

It’s not about the money, it’s the fact that Moustakas would be a bad 1B or DH. I just don’t see the allure of Moose unless you’re keeping him at 3B. And I don’t believe in buying average-ish players at this point in the rebuild, not when there are going to be four impact players hitting free agency when it makes more sense for us to spend.

Why would he be a bad DH? Before you answer, you might want to check DH stats.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Harper makes a LOT more sense from the marketing side of things.

 

He automatically makes the Sox relevant on a national scale in a way that only Trout could, maybe moreso.

 

He gets the Sox the best possible negotiating leverage for the new tv deal.

 

If the rebuild busts, it’s not so difficult to trade him as long as he stays healthy, plus insurance mitigates risk level. But you most importantly lock in the guaranteed tv money ($100-120 million instead of $50 mill). Essentially, his presence brings in an additional $1.2-1.5 billion in revenue over 20-25 years. Opt outs after two or three years could also help get it done.

 

No way that signing Machado, Arenado, Rendon or Donaldson do that.

 

He eclipses Bryant/Rizzo as the biggest star in Chicago, and increases attendance...it’s the exact same thinking as the Belle deal over two decades ago now, except Harper is the face of MLB’s future, along with Trout. Or the A-Rod pursuit, or even Tanaka.

 

Plus, we already have a steadily improving relationship with Boras.

Edited February 24, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Might want to read this if you think Machado solves 3B. He plans to remain a SS.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...kees/347912002/

Come on Dick, that’s an obvious marketing piece. He played 3B last year while Tim f***ing Beckham played SS. If needed to play SS why didn’t he force this move last year? I think he’ll be open to 3B or SS as long as he gets paid.

[Chicago White Sox]

Why would he be a bad DH? Before you answer, you might want to check DH stats.

I don’t care how teams are utilizing the position, he’d be a poor, over-paid contributor at DH. And I’ve said multiple times I value the DH spot and don’t really buy into the rotating DH concept. I like a dedicated guy that is a proven plus hitter, which is why I was pushing for a JD Martinez signing all offseason. That would not be Moose.

[caulfield12]

Come on Dick, that’s an obvious marketing piece. He played 3B last year while Tim f***ing Beckham played SS. If needed to play SS why didn’t he force this move last year? I think he’ll be open to 3B or SS as long as he gets paid.

 

JJ Hardy was there a huge majority of that time...

[Dick Allen]

Come on Dick, that’s an obvious marketing piece. He played 3B last year while Tim f***ing Beckham played SS. If needed to play SS why didn’t he force this move last year? I think he’ll be open to 3B or SS as long as he gets paid.

Beckham came at the deadline. He wasn’t going to switch then.You can’t be sure. Maybe with the Yankees, the team he loved growing up. He clearly wants to be a SS. Who knows, maybe having Moustakas helps the White Sox cause, knowing he was signed to be a SS.

 

I don’t think his market shrinks if he demands to play SS.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

I don’t care how teams are utilizing the position, he’d be a poor, over-paid contributor at DH. And I’ve said multiple times I value the DH spot and don’t really buy into the rotating DH concept. I like a dedicated guy that is a proven plus hitter, which is why I was pushing for a JD Martinez signing all offseason. That would not be Moose.

So don’t look at the numbers , ignore all you have said about how much money the White Sox have, ignore he would be a top 3 or 4 DH. Just say he was bad.

 

OK.

 

Why don’t we move on to the other thing that is ignored. If you sign someone else, why couldn’t you trade him?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

So don’t look at the numbers , ignore all you have said about how much money the White Sox have, ignore he would be a top 3 or 4 DH. Just say he was bad.

 

OK.

 

Why don’t we move on to the other thing that is ignored. If you sign someone else, why couldn’t you trade him?

 

But many now want to extend Abreu for $60-65 million and 3 years...when almost nobody would have thought that would be a good idea just one year ago.

 

That would cover ages 33-35. A bigger risk than Moustakas because of his size, arguably...and when you consider the same price (for an additional two years) for an above average hitter that’s at least two years younger at an important defensive position.

Edited February 24, 2018 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Sure you can. He’d get plenty of AB’s as a super utility guy this year. Isn’t that where he should be on a contending club anyway?

Yolmer improved his 3-season OPS by over .130 last year. If he takes another step up, he may be more than a utility infielder. The "super utility" guy would be more likely Leury, as he can play OF. He had a similar improvement in OPS, but he also had a bump the prior year (in AAA and the majors). It's pretty clear they can be utility players...the quest is to see if they can become more.

But even discovering utility players is helpful - the Sox spent large sums on utility level veterans this decade.

Edited February 24, 2018 by GreenSox

[Dick Allen]

Yolmer improved his 3-season OPS by over .130 last year. If he takes another step up, he may be more than a utility infielder. The "super utility" guy would be more likely Leury, as he can play OF. He had a similar improvement in OPS, but he also had a bump the prior year (in AAA and the majors). It's pretty clear they can be utility players...the quest is to see if they can become more.

But even discovering utility players is helpful - the Sox spent large sums on utility level veterans this decade.

Yolmer took a huge leap and was still below average offensively. To expect another one isn’t realistic. Most projections think he will go the other way.He has a nice glove and is perfect as a back up.p on a contending team.

 

 

No team has ever had too many good players. Let alone the White Sox. If the opportunity to get one for a discounted price comes along, it is probably a good idea to take it. I doubt the price will come down far enough for Moustakas considering his agent and his agents ability to pull things out the last second, but there is probably a small chance, it would probably mean Tyler Saladin would need to hire a mover.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

So don’t look at the numbers , ignore all you have said about how much money the White Sox have, ignore he would be a top 3 or 4 DH. Just say he was bad.

 

OK.

 

Why don’t we move on to the other thing that is ignored. If you sign someone else, why couldn’t you trade him?

Ignore the numbers? I’m aware of the numbers. Being the the 3rd or 4th best DH right now doesn’t mean you’re a big contributor. I just said I don’t agree with how the position is being utilized, but clearly ignore that. And I don’t want to pay $12M to $16M on a 1 WAR DH. Us having a lot of money to play with doesn’t mean we have endless amounts of money and it definitely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t allocate it as efficiently as possible.

 

And how often are guys traded a year after signing a multi-year deal? How do you think our players would feel about that? How would future potential free agents feel about that? Things don’t happen in a vacuum and that sends a bad message IMO. And who exactly is trading for him when they could just sign him right now to this disoc***ed deal?

[Chicago White Sox]

Yolmer took a huge leap and was still below average offensively. To expect another one isn’t realistic. Most projections think he will go the other way.He has a nice glove and is perfect as a back up.p on a contending team.

 

 

No team has ever had too many good players. Let alone the White Sox. If the opportunity to get one for a discounted price comes along, it is probably a good idea to take it. I doubt the price will come down far enough for Moustakas considering his agent and his agents ability to pull things out the last second, but there is probably a small chance, it would probably mean Tyler Saladin would need to hire a mover.

Give me an example of a discounted price?

[caulfield12]

Ignore the numbers? I’m aware of the numbers. Being the the 3rd or 4th best DH right now doesn’t mean you’re a big contributor. I just said I don’t agree with how the position is being utilized, but clearly ignore that. And I don’t want to pay $12M to $16M on a 1 WAR DH. Us having a lot of money to play with doesn’t mean we have endless amounts of money and it definitely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t allocate it as efficiently as possible.

 

And how often are guys traded a year after signing a multi-year deal? How do you think our players would feel about that? How would future potential free agents feel about that? Things don’t happen in a vacuum and that sends a bad message IMO. And who exactly is trading for him when they could just sign him right now to this disoc***ed deal?

 

Jake Peavy...

[Dick Allen]

Give me an example of a discounted price?

4/$48 million

[Dick Allen]

Ignore the numbers? I’m aware of the numbers. Being the the 3rd or 4th best DH right now doesn’t mean you’re a big contributor. I just said I don’t agree with how the position is being utilized, but clearly ignore that. And I don’t want to pay $12M to $16M on a 1 WAR DH. Us having a lot of money to play with doesn’t mean we have endless amounts of money and it definitely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t allocate it as efficiently as possible.

 

And how often are guys traded a year after signing a multi-year deal? How do you think our players would feel about that? How would future potential free agents feel about that? Things don’t happen in a vacuum and that sends a bad message IMO. And who exactly is trading for him when they could just sign him right now to this disoc***ed deal?

 

Considering Moustakas is getting only one year offers, if the White Sox sign him for 4 years and trade him, most likely to a pretty good team if it comes to that, I don’t think there would be much outrage. And that is not even considering they did it because they gave another player $350 million.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

4/$48 million

I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox.