Moustakas linked to Sox again

[ron883]

It's ok to admit you were wrong DA. You dont need to argue your opinion to the death.

[Dick Allen]

I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox.

I don’t think you have anything to worry about. You more than likely won’t have to hatefully watch Mike Moustakas is a White Sox uniform.

[Dick Allen]

It's ok to admit you were wrong DA. You dont need to argue your opinion to the death.

Exactly what I am wrong about? If Moustakas flops, then I will have been wrong, although I have never mentioned anything about signing him at full price, when will you start the next Jose Abreu is a bum thread?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox.

But if there is an opt out after year 2 and he opts out, it means he must have played pretty well and opens up 3B for the other two potential signees, or then they pay him the going rate.

 

If they White Sox will have all this flexibility you have claimed, it’s a non issue. I would admit an opt out after year 1would make zero sense to the team,

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

I don’t think you have anything to worry about. You more than likely won’t have to hatefully watch Mike Moustakas is a White Sox uniform.

I find this comment to be insulting. Just because I don’t agree with a potential move, doesn’t mean I’d hate the actual player if they were added to the team. Moose isn’t a bad player or some sort of scumbag. I’d have absolutely no will towards him. I simply don’t align with the strategy behind adding him. There’s nothing personal about this.

[Dick Allen]

I find this comment to be insulting. Just because I don’t agree with a potential move, doesn’t mean I’d hate the actual player if they were added to the team. Moose isn’t a bad player or some sort of scumbag. I’d have absolutely no will towards him. I simply don’t align with the strategy behind adding him. There’s nothing personal about this.

You say he is average if he is a 3B and bad if he is anything else; and wouldn’t agree with his presence. You would be pissed off he is with the team.

[Chicago White Sox]

But if there is an opt out after year 2 and he opts out, it means he must have played pretty well and opens up 3B for the other two potential signees, or then they pay him the going rate.

 

If they White Sox will have all this flexibility you have claimed, it’s a non issue. I would admit an opt out after year 1would make zero sense to the team,

An opt-out at all would be absolutely stupid. Why are we spending $12M on a lost season AND giving up a high 2nd round pick to have an average-ish player for only one season in which we’re trying to compete? I’d demand Hahn be fired on the spot if he made such a dumb move. Whether we could add Arenado or Rendon after the fact is completely irrelevant to the decision to give Moose a deal with an opt-out clause. The only benefit to any potential Moose deal is cheap long-term control, the moment you give that up all logic for the Sox goes out the window.

[Dick Allen]

An opt-out at all would be absolutely stupid. Why are we spending $12M on a lost season AND giving up a high 2nd round pick to have an average-ish player for only one season in which we’re trying to compete? I’d demand Hahn be fired on the spot if he made such a dumb move. Whether we could add Arenado or Rendon after the fact is completely irrelevant to the decision to give Moose a deal with an opt-out clause. The only benefit to any potential Moose deal is cheap long-term control, the moment you give that up all logic for the Sox goes out the window.

As I wrote, and opt out after year 1 would make no sense.Weren’t you all over paying Matt Kemp $43 million just as long as they sent over a decent prospect? You value these guys way too much. The second round prospect isn’t a deal breaker. If Moustakas opted out in 2019, and it was a contending year, chances are he help you win some games. That’s far more than you can say about the $43 million you had no problem the White Sox paying Kemp.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Lillian]

Why not 5 years, at $12 Million per year? That would cover his age 29, through 33, seasons. That's still mostly within the normal prime, and 4 of those 5 years are within the anticipated window of contention, for this rebuilt team. It's hard to imagine that the Sox couldn't use his LH bat, somewhere even if it were as a DH.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Lillian

[Chicago White Sox]

As I wrote, and opt out after year 1 would make no sense.Weren’t you all over paying Matt Kemp $43 million just as long as they sent over a decent prospect? You value these guys way too much. The second round prospect isn’t a deal breaker. If Moustakas opted out in 2019, and it was a contending year, chances are he help you win some games. That’s far more than you can say about the $43 million you had no problem the White Sox paying Kemp.

Effectively paying Moose $24M to “win some games” in 2019, losing a high draft pick & corresponding $2M in bonus pool, and then having a hole at 3B again heading into the 2020 seasonon is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Surely you can’t be serious with this proposal. I honestly feel like you’re trolling me right now. You’re usually one of the more logical posters around here, but this idea is just pure insanity.

 

As for Kemp, sure I’d take his contract for a high-end prospect. We just spent $50M on Robert. If I can get Verdugo for eating the remaining $43M I’d certainly do that. The Dodgers won’t so the point is moot anyways.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Dick Allen]

Effectively paying Moose $24M to “win some games” in 2019, losing a high draft pick & corresponding $2M in bonus pool, and then having a hole at 3B again heading into the 2020 seasonon is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Surely you can’t be serious with this proposal. I honestly feel like you’re trolling me right now. You’re usually one of the more logical posters around here, but this idea is just pure insanity.

 

As for Kemp, sure I’d take his contract for a high-end prospect. We just spent $50M on Robert. If I can get Verdugo for eating the remaining $43M I’d certainly do that. The Dodgers won’t so the point is moot anyways.

You would get a pick back if he opted out. Edit.I think his comp is done.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

You would get a pick back if he opted out.

How? You can only get a qualifying offer once?

[Dick Allen]

How? You can only get a qualifying offer once?

Yes. I edited my post, when I realized it. Still, if makes sense if 2019 is the year you expect to start contending. If not then the opt out after year 2would be a deal breaker, the fact remains that there are terms where this makes a lot of sense to the White Sox. I don’t think it will get that far, but like the White Sox actually signing Manny Machado, chances aren’t zero.

[Dam8610]

Yes. I edited my post, when I realized it. Still, if makes sense if 2019 is the year you expect to start contending. If not then the opt out after year 2would be a deal breaker, the fact remains that there are terms where this makes a lot of sense to the White Sox. I don’t think it will get that far, but like the White Sox actually signing Manny Machado, chances aren’t zero.

 

Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense.

[Dick Allen]

Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense.

Hahn has been hinting 2020 for some time, but recent articles have stated their timeline has been pushed up. If Giolito, Kopech, and Lopez, and Rodon are ready to really pitch in 2019, and Mocada and Jimenez are ready to go, and Anderson takes a couple of steps forward, you are pretty much right there. It may be depend on Cleveland and Minnesota a bit.

 

I was around for the last toal rebuild and the 1990 season. They were hoping to be back to some winning ways for the opening of the new park in 1991. But in 1990 they had the second best record in the AL and 3rd best in baseball, and this was with only a couple of months of Frank Thomas. Of course they didn’t make the playoffs that year. But easily would if history repeated itself.

The Cubs also were a year ahead of where they thought they would be.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense.

The Twins went from 59 wins to a wild card berth in one season. There is most definitely a scenario where the Sox can make a significant leap forward without a mega signing. Obviously a lot of things will have to go right on the development, but most of the key players will be in place. No doubt a mega signing makes that far more likely.

[Lillian]

Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense.

 

The starting staff, in 2019 could well be;

1 Kopech

2 Rodon

3 Giolito

4 Hansen

5 Lopez/Cease/Dunning/Fulmer, Clarkin or several others

 

Bullpen:

The 2 to 4 starters, who don't make the starting staff

Jones

Avilan

Burdi

Possible acquisition

 

The Lineup could be:

Moncada

Avi

Abreu

Insert your favorite acquisition, or 2

Eloy

Anderson

Castillo

CF? Whoever wins the job of holding down the position, until Robert arrives

Then there is always the possibility that youngsters like Delmonico, Collins, Davidson and Gillaspie emerge as legitimate contributors

 

That looks to me, like it has a realistic potential to begin the competitive window, in 2019.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Again you are the throwing out 5 years $60 million. I think 4/48 would be closer to reality. But present day value of having to pay someone even 60 million over the next 5 years is nowhere close to 50% more than having to pay someone 43 million over he next 2. Moustakas becomes an asset that can play a couple o other AL positions, and can also be traded. Something you purposely ignored. Machado wanted to move to SS. How do you even know he would play 3b for the White Sox?

 

Oh so you're operating on an entirely different assumption of his "likely" contract than anyone else involved in the conversation has been using, but haven't found the time to mention that until now. And your assumption has him, for some unknown reason, agreeing to be paid like a bench player for FOUR YEARS. And I'm the one being purposely deceptive with my numbers.

[Eminor3rd]

Yes. I edited my post, when I realized it.

 

Purposeful deception, lol.

[Eminor3rd]

Why not 5 years, at $12 Million per year? That would cover his age 29, through 33, seasons. That's still mostly within the normal prime, and 4 of those 5 years are within the anticipated window of contention, for this rebuilt team. It's hard to imagine that the Sox couldn't use his LH bat, somewhere even if it were as a DH.

 

I think it's possible he may have to settle for $12m per year, but I think it's EXTREMELY unlikely he would want five years at that rate. Generally, when guys find their markets have fallen apart and have to settle for less, they do so on a short-term deal so that they can try again against a different market.

 

My guess is he either signs for a one or two year deal in the $12 - 15mm range or a four or five year deal in the $18 - 20mm range. If, for some reason, he's willing to do a long-term deal at a clearly below market rate, then yes, we should consider signing him.

[Dick Allen]

Oh so you're operating on an entirely different assumption of his "likely" contract than anyone else involved in the conversation has been using, but haven't found the time to mention that until now. And your assumption has him, for some unknown reason, agreeing to be paid like a bench player for FOUR YEARS. And I'm the one being purposely deceptive with my numbers.

BS I mentioned discount 100 tmes and mentioned my term earler. I think if the Sox thought it was OK for a guy to be aound for 2 years and influence others, they may have gone after Frazier for what he ultimately settled. I have said many times it is unlikely Borax would settle for what the team is willing to pay.

[Balta1701]

You’re equating the Astros’ share of Verlander’s remaining contract to Machado’s upcoming contract? Seriously?

They took on >$20 million a year to pick up a top of the league pitcher.

 

I don't care how the White Sox do it. There's nothing wrong with doing so in a trade. If the Angels want to make Mike Trout available am I going to be mad that we had to trade for the player that put us over the top rather than signing a free agent? God no.

 

The Sox can make their call about what guy fits them best after they play this season, but this piddling "Mike Moustakas/Todd Frazier/Jeff Samardzija is good enough!" thinking is what we needed to throw in the trash after 2015. We know how this game works out.

[Balta1701]

It is the biggest flaw in the rebuild.

If this team isn't willing to spend what it takes to bring in the kind of guys that can actually push this team over the top, because they've decided they just wont spend that much, then you're right. If they're not willing to spend money when they have plenty of money to spend, then you're right - they should have just kept spending $110 million a year and been satisfied with 4th place and 75 wins. Hell, this year they'd probably have moved up to 3rd after the Royals fall back.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

They took on >$20 million a year to pick up a top of the league pitcher.

 

I don't care how the White Sox do it. There's nothing wrong with doing so in a trade. If the Angels want to make Mike Trout available am I going to be mad that we had to trade for the player that put us over the top rather than signing a free agent? God no.

 

The Sox can make their call about what guy fits them best after they play this season, but this piddling "Mike Moustakas/Todd Frazier/Jeff Samardzija is good enough!" thinking is what we needed to throw in the trash after 2015. We know how this game works out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chron.com/...in-12166149.php

 

How is $20M AAV for two years in any way comparable to $33-35M AAV over 10 years?

Edited February 24, 2018 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Dick Allen]

If this team isn't willing to spend what it takes to bring in the kind of guys that can actually push this team over the top, because they've decided they just wont spend that much, then you're right. If they're not willing to spend money when they have plenty of money to spend, then you're right - they should have just kept spending $110 million a year and been satisfied with 4th place and 75 wins. Hell, this year they'd probably have moved up to 3rd after the Royals fall back.

Being willing to spend it doesn't mean it will happen. Others are willing to spend it too.