Moustakas linked to Sox again

[Nokona]

If it comes to it, the Sox better bite his hand off at the 1 year deal. It'd work out so well for both parties, Moose would probably have a better shot at the WS signing with the Sox. You'd almost certainly get 2nd round++ value

Edited February 27, 2018 by Nokona

[Chicago White Sox]

Therefore, do I understand that you guys think that Boras would urge him to take a one year deal, in order to try to re-enter the free agent market, with that stacked free agent group, next year? I'm skeptical.

Teams don’t want to do a multi-year deal with Moose right now because they’re waiting the elite guys next year. The teams that miss may well consider Moose a nice consolation price. But right now, he simply blocks plan A. I think he’d smart to renter the market next year, just don’t know who would actually give him a one year deal.

[BlackSox13]

What would be the point of signing Moustakas to a one year contract and losing a draft pick and that slot position money? That's a move a contender makes, not a rebuilding team such as the Sox.

[Dick Allen]

What would be the point of signing Moustakas to a one year contract and losing a draft pick and that slot position money? That's a move a contender makes, not a rebuilding team such as the Sox.

There would be no point.

[Lillian]

What would be the point of signing Moustakas to a one year contract and losing a draft pick and that slot position money? That's a move a contender makes, not a rebuilding team such as the Sox.

 

I don't understand how anyone can argue against this point. 'BlackSox' sounds exactly right. The only way it might make sense for the Sox, would be if they thought that they could flip him to a contender, during the season and get back something better than the 2ND round draft pick, that they will lose.

[BlackSox13]

I don't understand how anyone can argue against this point. 'BlackSox' sounds exactly right. The only way it might make sense for the Sox, would be if they thought that they could flip him to a contender, during the season and get back something better than the 2ND round draft pick, that they will lose.

Right and it would be a risky move. I realise the lost pick isn't a guarantee but at this point the Sox have a better idea of what will be available for that pick than what teams will be willing to give up for Moustakas in July. If Moustakas struggles the move fails horribly. Can you imagine the posts on this board if such a move failed? Mercy!!!

 

I'm not really sold on the idea of Moustakas myself, but am open to it under the right conditions. Give me the right money and contract length with no opt-outs and I could get on board. I can certainly see the benefits to signing Moustakas now and not trying to chase the Machado dragon next winter.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Right and it would be a risky move. I realise the lost pick isn't a guarantee but at this point the Sox have a better idea of what will be available for that pick than what teams will be willing to give up for Moustakas in July. If Moustakas struggles the move fails horribly. Can you imagine the posts on this board if such a move failed? Mercy!!!

 

I'm not really sold on the idea of Moustakas myself, but am open to it under the right conditions. Give me the right money and contract length with no opt-outs and I could get on board. I can certainly see the benefits to signing Moustakas now and not trying to chase the Machado dragon next winter.

 

Nobody really cared about Holland. That said, we're talking $12 million vs. $6, and it's decidedly not to protect the young pitching prospects from overexposure.

[BlackSox13]

Nobody really cared about Holland. That said, we're talking $12 million vs. $6, and it's decidedly not to protect the young pitching prospects from overexposure.

Wait, what?

 

Can you elaborate because I'm not following you here.

[iWiN4PreP]

There is absolutely no reason to sign Moustakas to a one or two year deal.

You either sign him for 4-5 years or you do not sign him at all.

And it must come at a discount as well.

 

All this is coming from someone who actually would be happy to sign Mous. It's a unique situation.

[caulfield12]

Wait, what?

 

Can you elaborate because I'm not following you here.

 

Someone was talking about fans would get really upset if they "wasted" the money on a one year deal...but I said that nobody cared much at all about Holland's $6 million year deal last year, with no return on investment.

[BlackSox13]

Someone was talking about fans would get really upset if they "wasted" the money on a one year deal...but I said that nobody cared much at all about Holland's $6 million year deal last year, with no return on investment.

Holland didn't cost a draft pick and slot money. Two completely different animals.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Holland didn't cost a draft pick and slot money. Two completely different animals.

 

Yep, exactly. I want the Sox to sign CarGo, but stay away from Moose, for that exact reason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm going to go "out on a limb" here and predict that the Sox will sign Moustakas, and that it will be 5 years. If they were seriously considering it, before this injury to Burger, it now seems very likely. It just makes too much sense, and shouldn't completely rule out trying to sign Machado, though I don't see the Sox winning that bidding war.

Even though you and I pretty much started the whole Moose discussion in another thread on the 2nd page now and I advocated it for multiple reasons I really do understand that the Sox signing him is not likely to happen.

 

I think Hahn wants another good draft in a year that's supposed to have a lot of talent ( going by what others have said and my memory). There's also the draft pick and slot money we lose .Having Boras as his agent doesn't help although Moose and Boras seem to be in quite the pickle at the moment , quickly running out of options. A longer term contract seems impossible for him now and a shorter term one runs him smack dab into the Machado, Donaldson, Arenado Rendon sweepstakes.

 

There is probably a contract in Hahn's mind where he would consider Moose but I think it would have to be 3 or 4 years at close to 9/10M AAV which leaves Boras/Moose a huge decision to make. To us 9/10M a year sounds fantastic but to them it might be insulting. Only way they accept that offer is if Moose says yes against the advice of Boras. $30-40M is still a hell of a lot of money when you are looking at the dilemma they are facing now.

[BlackSox13]

Yep, exactly. I want the Sox to sign CarGo, but stay away from Moose, for that exact reason.

I think the premise behind signing Moustakas would be to secure 3B for the long term future so I can understand the willingness for people to sign him. But for CarGo, really don't see a point. I actually hope the Sox don't sign CarGo.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I think the premise behind signing Moustakas would be to secure 3B for the long term future so I can understand the willingness for people to sign him. But for CarGo, really don't see a point. I actually hope the Sox don't sign CarGo.

 

The dude is probably a 2-2.5 WAR player over the next few years. I'd like to think we can do better than that, either by obviously going after Machado/Donaldson/Rendon/Arenado in FA, acquiring a good 3B via trade (Kyle Seager, Suarez, Chapman?), or finding a veteran stop gap until Burger/Gorman is ready.

 

There are a lot of really good 3B on the FA market coming soon. We have a chance at 4 superstars and the Sox have a TON of money to spend. Go big.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The dude is probably a 2-2.5 WAR player over the next few years. I'd like to think we can do better than that, either by obviously going after Machado/Donaldson/Rendon/Arenado in FA, acquiring a good 3B via trade (Kyle Seager, Suarez, Chapman?), or finding a veteran stop gap until Burger/Gorman is ready.

 

There are a lot of really good 3B on the FA market coming soon. We have a chance at 4 superstars and the Sox have a TON of money to spend. Go big.

I don’t see Machado or Arenado as realistic options with the money they will demand. That leaves Donaldson and Rendon and both guys scare me when you consider what they will get paid. Donaldson is great but his age relative to the Sox contention window is absolutely concerning. With Rendon, I don’t know but just a gut feeling that he’s the kind of guy that would see a drop in performance after moving to the AL. Maybe I have an irrational fear after seeing what happened to the likes of Frazier, LaRoche, Dunn, etc. Both Donaldson and Rendon feel like cases where you are paying a hefty sum for past performance versus expected future performance.

[caulfield12]

I don’t see Machado or Arenado as realistic options with the money they will demand. That leaves Donaldson and Rendon and both guys scare me when you consider what they will get paid. Donaldson is great but his age relative to the Sox contention window is absolutely concerning. With Rendon, I don’t know but just a gut feeling that he’s the kind of guy that would see a drop in performance after moving to the AL. Maybe I have an irrational fear after seeing what happened to the likes of Frazier, LaRoche, Dunn, etc. Both Donaldson and Rendon feel like cases where you are paying a hefty sum for past performance versus expected future performance.

 

Plus recent injury histories, especially for such a young player in Rendon.

[he gone.]

I don’t see Machado or Arenado as realistic options with the money they will demand. That leaves Donaldson and Rendon and both guys scare me when you consider what they will get paid. Donaldson is great but his age relative to the Sox contention window is absolutely concerning. With Rendon, I don’t know but just a gut feeling that he’s the kind of guy that would see a drop in performance after moving to the AL. Maybe I have an irrational fear after seeing what happened to the likes of Frazier, LaRoche, Dunn, etc. Both Donaldson and Rendon feel like cases where you are paying a hefty sum for past performance versus expected future performance.

 

100% this.

 

If we had to list our weakest position relative to the next 3-4 years I'd have to say 3B. We have a good amount of talent spread around the rest of the diamond throughout the minors (Especially if we extend Abreu), so for me, it's let's sign a safe option and eliminate a hole.

 

I also don't think if you sign Moose that it precludes you from going after Machado (who can play SS, or rotate between 3B/SS while Moose rotates between DH/3B/1B).

 

Also worst case scenario Moose is paid at a very reasonable rate and you can flip his salary for a mid-level prospect if you really really want. Other than draft compensation I don't see the down side.

[bmags]

But the point that I would make is even if we dont find a big upgrade in 2019 I have 100% confidence we can find a 2 WAR 3b either internally, FA, or trade. I know people think Moustakas is more than that, I don't, and so we may as well wait and just get the younger version in 2 years.

[bmags]

Also worst case scenario Moose is paid at a very reasonable rate and you can flip his salary for a mid-level prospect if you really really want. Other than draft compensation I don't see the down side.

 

Every team in baseball has the opportunity to sign him right now for merely his market rate. What do we think he could get in return for his market rate and rights? It would be nothing. He's not a good flip candidate, which we know because nobody wants to sign him.

[caulfield12]

Every team in baseball has the opportunity to sign him right now for merely his market rate. What do we think he could get in return for his market rate and rights? It would be nothing. He's not a good flip candidate, which we know because nobody wants to sign him.

 

Just like Arrieta...c’mon, Boras is the biggest factor here.

[Dick Allen]

Every team in baseball has the opportunity to sign him right now for merely his market rate. What do we think he could get in return for his market rate and rights? It would be nothing. He's not a good flip candidate, which we know because nobody wants to sign him.

Tha't s pretty much true of any guy you sign to flip. But, he makes no sense for that because of the lost draft pick and salary, even discounted. There supposedly are teams willing to sign him to a one year deal. You offer him a multi year rate discounted. If he doesn't accept, fine, he takes the one year with someone else, and you can go after him next year if needed. But, signing him at a price you never thought you can sign him for at multiple years makes sense as well. If a better player comes along, he can still be replaced.

[bmags]

Tha't s pretty much true of any guy you sign to flip. But, he makes no sense for that because of the lost draft pick and salary, even discounted. There supposedly are teams willing to sign him to a one year deal. You offer him a multi year rate discounted. If he doesn't accept, fine, he takes the one year with someone else, and you can go after him next year if needed. But, signing him at a price you never thought you can sign him for at multiple years makes sense as well. If a better player comes along, he can still be replaced.

 

If the white sox can get him at a price they never thought, I'd want them to consider why that is, especially after all of their value FA adds the last few years.

 

He can still be replaced, but it will come at the cost of playing time for one of our fringe prospects. It is obviously unlikely that Sanchez ends up with a career as good as Moustakas, but allowing him and leury and the DH spot to be open could allow something more valuable than Moustakas years 2019-20-21

[caulfield12]

If the white sox can get him at a price they never thought, I'd want them to consider why that is, especially after all of their value FA adds the last few years.

 

He can still be replaced, but it will come at the cost of playing time for one of our fringe prospects. It is obviously unlikely that Sanchez ends up with a career as good as Moustakas, but allowing him and leury and the DH spot to be open could allow something more valuable than Moustakas years 2019-20-21

 

By that philosophy, we never would have added Dye, Pods, Pierzynski, Contreras, Thome, Quentin, Eaton...too many ?’s.

 

Very simple. Buy low. Sell high. Rinse, repeat. We kept buying high and selling low until last year.

 

It’s also how we ended up with Abreu...big market teams all on sideline then.

Edited February 27, 2018 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

If the white sox can get him at a price they never thought, I'd want them to consider why that is, especially after all of their value FA adds the last few years.

 

He can still be replaced, but it will come at the cost of playing time for one of our fringe prospects. It is obviously unlikely that Sanchez ends up with a career as good as Moustakas, but allowing him and leury and the DH spot to be open could allow something more valuable than Moustakas years 2019-20-21

Moustakas just had bad timing. I don't think it's a result of teams not valuing him in the least. Boras was probably shooting for the moon. Teams that need a 3B are either non contenders or trying to get under the tax, so why engage? I'm not too worried about finding playing time for Sanchez and Leury, as both are quite versatile, and there will be struggles and injuries. ABs won't be hard to come by. It would probably be the demise of Tyler Saladino.