Moustakas linked to Sox again

[steveno89]

It’s not just about the pick, but the bonus pool as well. The 2018 draft is supposed to be deep and it doesn’t sound like there will be a ton of seperation between the guys we’ll be considering at #4 (still early obviously). Therefore, there may be a legit under-slot play to made there, which could allow us to allocate bonus pool later on and take advantage of this draft’s depth. We’ll be in a much stronger position to execute such a strategy if we keep the #45 pick and it’s corresponding bonus pool. This is not the year to blow a high draft pick IMO, especially since we can stack penalties next year and lessen the overall impact if we sign multiple tendered guys.

 

I agree^

 

Having more flexibility in an important draft is important for the White Sox. The #45 pick lat year had a $1.523 million draft pool along with it. Potentially going underslot #4 opens up the possibility to go overslot in the second round to snap a top talent.

[Eminor3rd]

Where did Machado rank?

 

I didn't check.

[hogan873]

You could probably look at the twenty previous 45th or 49th pick and find a bunch of guys who never made it. I’m not necessarily advocating the signing of Moustakas but it sure as hell would have nothing to do with that pick.

Yeah, this is a tough one. I would hazard to guess that if you looked at the success rate of the 45th to 49th picks it wouldn't be overwhelming. History would tell us that there are potential gems in every round (see Mark Buehrle). Obviously a 45th pick would have a better CHANCE at success than a 145th pick. I suppose it comes down to what sort of deal Moustakas could be signed for. If he would sign for 5/$60ish, it might be worth it.

 

People smarter than me would be making the decision ultimately. The potential loss of the pick will be considered along with many other factors (free agent availability and the chances the Sox have of signing them chief among them).

[LittleHurt05]

Yes, they did, in 2015. When Moustakas was 27 years old and put up a nearly 4-win season -- which is something he hasn't even sniffed since. In 2020, he'll be 32 years old.

 

The Cardinals won a World Series in 2011 with Albert Pujols in the middle of their lineup. That doesn't mean that should be the Angels' plan now.

 

The Cardinals also won a World Series in 2011 with Ryan Theriot batting leadoff. Not trying to make a point, just stunned.

[GreenSox]

Yes, they did, in 2015. When Moustakas was 27 years old and put up a nearly 4-win season -- which is something he hasn't even sniffed since. In 2020, he'll be 32 years old.

 

The Cardinals won a World Series in 2011 with Albert Pujols in the middle of their lineup. That doesn't mean that should be the Angels' plan now.

And this.

[Dick Allen]

Reading Hahn's comments, I think they would sign him, but only at their price, and chances of Boras going there are about next to zero. Boras usually pulls something out at the end. Maybe there will be a spring training injury, but Moustakas is definitely a guy who should have a job. The downside of hiring Boras is he can get you more than others, but his elevated demands backfire occassionally.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Dick Allen

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Yes, they did, in 2015. When Moustakas was 27 years old and put up a nearly 4-win season -- which is something he hasn't even sniffed since. In 2020, he'll be 32 years old.

 

The Cardinals won a World Series in 2011 with Albert Pujols in the middle of their lineup. That doesn't mean that should be the Angels' plan now.

He’s 29 years old coming off a season in which he posted a 2.2 fWAR entirely driven by his offensive production. To say the Sox are unlikely to be a playoff caliber team with a guy like him batting in the middle of their lineup makes no sense imo.

[KnightsOnMintSt]

I am on the side that I would like the White Sox to sign Moustakas. He fills a need, and I feel like if you can get him around 5yr 80mil, the Sox should hop on that.

 

I also dont think a Moustakas signing means that we're out on Machado. We could easily move Moose to 1st or DH, or even slide Machado over to SS, if we were to sign him. White Sox have a lot of money and a lot of options.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I am on the side that I would like the White Sox to sign Moustakas. He fills a need, and I feel like if you can get him around 5yr 80mil, the Sox should hop on that.

 

I also dont think a Moustakas signing means that we're out on Machado. We could easily move Moose to 1st or DH, or even slide Machado over to SS, if we were to sign him. White Sox have a lot of money and a lot of options.

Yep, to have a guy like Moose batting 6th with guys like Moncada, Abreu, Jimenez, and Avi in front of him sounds fantastic...

[Soxnfins]

I'm in the middle on this one. If he's cheap, then I'd say go for it, aside form Todd Frazier, we haven't had a decent 3B since Joe Crede (I don't count Youkilis). Say 5/60, with an opt out after year 2, with $30M in the first two years. Doubt he'd take that, but it's worth a shot.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Soxnfins

[Bob Sacamano]

Yep, to have a guy like Moose batting 6th with guys like Moncada, Abreu, Jimenez, and Avi in front of him sounds fantastic...

 

I was going to say, sticking him around that spot would be fine. I know people really get into players having a high OBP, but I think OBP matters more or less depending on what spot/area of the lineup you are talking about. If he's in a spot to drive in runs after the more important guys fail to produce some runs, hewould be fine in that spot.

Edited February 21, 2018 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

I'll be real, real upset if we sign Moose and forfeit our 2nd RD pick to do so. That would be the 45th overall pick. We took Alec Hansen with the 49th overall pick in 2016. Would you be willing to give up Hansen in order to sign Moose? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

To be fair we also drafted Keenyn Walker 47th.

[Eminor3rd]

He’s 29 years old coming off a season in which he posted a 2.2 fWAR entirely driven by his offensive production. To say the Sox are unlikely to be a playoff caliber team with a guy like him batting in the middle of their lineup makes no sense imo.

 

2.2 fWAR is an average player. He's coming off a year where his wRC+, the best statistic for measuring total offensive production (which is league, park, and era-adjusted) was 107th best in the MLB.

 

Last year, in his age 29 season, he wasn't even a top 100 hitter. Now we're talking about needing him to be in the middle of our order in his age 31-33 seasons.

[Dick Allen]

2.2 fWAR is an average player. He's coming off a year where his wRC+, the best statistic for measuring total offensive production (which is league, park, and era-adjusted) was 107th best in the MLB.

 

Last year, in his age 29 season, he wasn't even a top 100 hitter. Now we're talking about needing him to be in the middle of our order in his age 31-33 seasons.

That would be a 55 team WAR if multiplied by 25. If that is what 25 average players gets you, let's get 25 average players. According to fangraphs, his wRC+ was 62nd. That's top 2 or 3 on a team. Yolmer Sanchez was 107. So by your post, Yolmer isn't the answer..

 

Manny Machado wasn't as good offensively as Moustakas last year. I am sure most of us will be doing cartwheels if the Sox give him $300 million plus in the next 10 months.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I am on the side that I would like the White Sox to sign Moustakas. He fills a need, and I feel like if you can get him around 5yr 80mil, the Sox should hop on that.

 

I also dont think a Moustakas signing means that we're out on Machado. We could easily move Moose to 1st or DH, or even slide Machado over to SS, if we were to sign him. White Sox have a lot of money and a lot of options.

If Moose could get anyone to give him 5/80 he'd jump on that now. I think he's been seeing some Jay Bruce type contracts offer . Bruce signed for 3 yrs/$39M. Look at what Todd Frazier signed for 2/17M and everybody loves Todd Frazier's attitude.

 

Most of the teams that needed a 3rd basemen heard his early asking price and moved on to other options. Boras usually ends up finding one taker but this time he's going to have a rough go of it. The longer Moose waits the worse the offers are going to get. Right now I'd be surprised if he lands anything beyond 4/50.

[turnin' two]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...e201140924.html

 

This gives a lot of insight on how the Padres sold Hosmer and Boras...as it’s the exact same plan we have, with similar smaller market/revenue issues (media markets are different, obviously.)

 

It’s the exact same strategy we laid out for Luis Robert. Hosmer being bilingual was another plus, with all the Latin American prospects in their system, just like the Sox have with the Cubans/Renteria/Santiago brothers.

 

Hosmer’s decision, like most occupational choices, largely rested on the financials. The Padres guaranteed the most money and the most years. They offered an opt-out after five seasons, sweetening the deal. Yet Hosmer said he spent much of the offseason studying the Padres’ minor-league system and learning the tenets of their plan. He watched video of the prospects in their pipeline and discussed them with Padres general manager A.J. Preller and his agent, Scott Boras. Hosmer believed, in time, he could win in San Diego.

 

“The very plan that San Diego has is one that he’s lived through,” said Boras, who earlier described the organization as a “volcano of hot talent lava.”

 

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...l#storylink=cpy

 

 

With Royals on the sidelines, is anyone interested in Mike Moustakas?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...e198736894.html

 

That's all well and good, but mostly they offered the most money.

[Dick Allen]

That's all well and good, but mostly they offered the most money.

It's always nice when they go through all the other reasons, but money is usually the determining factor. I don't blame them at all, but I'm with you, that story ends with the Padres offered him the most money.

[caulfield12]

2.2 fWAR is an average player. He's coming off a year where his wRC+, the best statistic for measuring total offensive production (which is league, park, and era-adjusted) was 107th best in the MLB.

 

Last year, in his age 29 season, he wasn't even a top 100 hitter. Now we're talking about needing him to be in the middle of our order in his age 31-33 seasons.

 

Adam Dunn put up 16.9 career war and everyone was elated when he signed for his age 31-34 seasons at money Moustakas might even not get six years later...as a DH, compared to an above average 3b with a World Series resume.

 

There has to be some middle ground. Heyward might have been the tipping point on overvaluing defense.

 

[Lillian]

That would be a 55 team WAR if multiplied by 25. If that is what 25 average players gets you, let's get 25 average players. According to fangraphs, his wRC+ was 62nd. That's top 2 or 3 on a team. Yolmer Sanchez was 107. So by your post, Yolmer isn't the answer..

 

Manny Machado wasn't as good offensively as Moustakas last year. I am sure most of us will be doing cartwheels if the Sox give him $300 million plus in the next 10 months.

 

I was just looking at Machado's split stats, as you posted this. Not only was his year not as productive as Moustakas', but he only hit 11 HR's, on the road, compared to Moose's 24. Baltimore is a much better park, in which to hit homers, than Kauffman Stadium. I suspect that Moustakas would put up some pretty good numbers, in Chicago.

[Eminor3rd]

That would be a 55 team WAR if multiplied by 25. If that is what 25 average players gets you, let's get 25 average players. According to fangraphs, his wRC+ was 62nd. That's top 2 or 3 on a team. Yolmer Sanchez was 107. So by your post, Yolmer isn't the answer..

 

Manny Machado wasn't as good offensively as Moustakas last year. I am sure most of us will be doing cartwheels if the Sox give him $300 million plus in the next 10 months.

 

Are you suggesting that Moustakas is better than Machado?

[Dick Allen]

I was just looking at Machado's split stats, as you posted this. Not only was his year not as productive as Moustakas', but he only hit 11 HR's, on the road, compared to Moose's 24. Baltimore is a much better park, in which to hit homers, than Kauffman Stadium. I suspect that Moustakas would put up some pretty good numbers, in Chicago.

I'm not going to kid myself in thinking Moustakas is better than Machado, although offensively he was last year. I do think Machado is going to put up huge numbers, is elite defensively, can probably play SS and is far younger. But if Moustakas' price drops, there has to be a number where you just say yes, instead of just listing reasons not to. The odds of the Sox signing Machado, IMO, are slim. Maybe they do it. But adding talent to this roster is the mode the Sox need to be in. As long as it won't effect adding others to the roster, that's great. At least for 2 years, it's a far cheaper option than adding Matt Kemp as long as the Dodgers sent along a prospect. Something, several posters were in favor of.

[Dick Allen]

Are you suggesting that Moustakas is better than Machado?

No, but offensively, last season he was.

[harfman77]

Probably means 5 year deal with opt-out after 2 years to avoid being on the market with Machado and Donaldson and other big free agents teams will spend on.

 

That deal would make zero sense of the Sox, you are paying a guy for two seasons that you don't anticipate being competitive and then lose a draft pick that could well be a contributor in your anticipated window of contention. If the Sox give a five year deal, there could not be an opt out.

 

I am not all that interested in Moustakas anyway. He flashed Richard Hidalgo like power last season, but his career numbers don't seem to support that output being sustainable. I am more inclined to wait on Burger and see if he can be a solution rather than dumping a bunch of money and a pick on a guy that has been as inconsistent as they come.

[Eminor3rd]

No, but offensively, last season he was.

 

So what's your point?

[Dick Allen]

So what's your point?

My point is, first you used incorrect numbers. Second, he's probably entering an area where he is a good buy. Most projections have him between 2.5 and 3.0 WAR for 2018. He was 10th for 3B in wRC+, a stat you find important. The top 9 aren't available for a second round draft pick. If the White Sox are being realistic about signing Manny Machado, and I would love if they did, it means they have a ton of money to spend. Moustakas at a discount, shouldn't hurt adding more players. They are going to need several when it is all said and done.

 

Moustakas can play 1B and DH as well, and could be a replacement down the road for a guy like Abreu. Someone whose WAR and wRC+ trended down until his age 30 season.

 

If signing Manny Machado means the White Sox will not be able to add other big pieces, they are screwed anyway.