2018 White Sox catch-all thread

[Jose Abreu]

7 minutes ago, flavum said:

The Sox haven't announced starters for the Reds series.  It would be Shields, Giolito, Covey.

I could see Donn Roach given a spot start Monday or Tuesday, with Bruce Rondon off the roster.

I can see Rondon getting optioned, but why would it need to be for a starter? It's not like they'd be on short rest 

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I can see Rondon getting optioned, but why would it need to be for a starter? It's not like they'd be on short rest 

Considering 34 games in 34 days, and Covey and Giolito not exactly killing it lately, they might want to give them one more day. Plus it's getting close to the break--it's not like they're getting shorted a start.

[greg775]

5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Paul Sullivan wrote a column about the White Sox this past Friday. He's not impressed with this rebuild/tanking/throwing up the white flag. He seems to think that this team might not be good until 2021 or maybe even 2022. I hope he's wrong about the time table. If he's right about 2021/2022 will anybody  even care about this team at that time?. The 2018 attendance is down 20% from 2017.  JR was suppose to be opposed to this rebuild for a long time because he thought  it might destroy the franchise. I can't help but wonder if that is going to happen.

Thank goodness. I wish more people would call out the Sox on this one. You don't have to completely tank 5 seasons to be good in MLB, folks. I just hope they clean house before long. Continue on with this horrid tank job if they must but fire Hahn and Kenny and sell the team and do it with a new regime. This is insulting to longtime Sox fans.

[Lip Man 1]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

Thank goodness. I wish more people would call out the Sox on this one. You don't have to completely tank 5 seasons to be good in MLB, folks. I just hope they clean house before long. Continue on with this horrid tank job if they must but fire Hahn and Kenny and sell the team and do it with a new regime. This is insulting to longtime Sox fans.

I understand where you are coming from and there is some truth in your comment but JR isn't selling. He didn't sell yesterday, he isn't today and he's not tomorrow. Just not happening and he's not going to fire the baseball side of his front office like John Allyn did in September 1970. He probably should, but he won't.

As Kenny said many time. "it is what it is..."

All we can do is hope it works out.

[tray]

 My  way too early  2019  picks for starting players by position (with some R/L platoons):

 and of course, subject to multiple revisions over the next several months:

SS Tim Anderson

2B Madrigal/Yolmer

3B Davidson/Moncada  

1B Abreu

LF Eloy

CF  Luis Robert

RF Avisail Garcia

C- Collins/Smith

DH  Palka/ Micker Adolpho

 

[Dam8610]

1 hour ago, tray said:

 My  way too early  2019  picks for starting players by position (with some R/L platoons):

 and of course, subject to multiple revisions over the next several months:

SS Tim Anderson

2B Madrigal/Yolmer

3B Davidson/Moncada  

1B Abreu

LF Eloy

CF  Luis Robert

RF Avisail Garcia

C- Collins/Smith

DH  Palka/ Micker Adolpho

 

Did you mean 2020/21? Because that would make more sense.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just a point of interest for those wanting more stats without scouring the internet. Basically go to whitesox.com , find stats in the black banner  right near the top of the opening page. Mouse over that then click on " sortable player stats"  then click on the person you want to look up , Then scroll down the page to where the hot zone charts (for positions players) are and right under that there's a box that says 'view more charts' and it will take to to that persons Baseball Savant page where you can see Statcast stuff and a wider range of stats.

Edited July 2, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
more info

[WBWSF]

9 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I understand where you are coming from and there is some truth in your comment but JR isn't selling. He didn't sell yesterday, he isn't today and he's not tomorrow. Just not happening and he's not going to fire the baseball side of his front office like John Allyn did in September 1970. He probably should, but he won't.

As Kenny said many time. "it is what it is..."

All we can do is hope it works out.

I find it ironic that JR fired  Larry Himes after the 1990 season and he keeps Hahn as GM. Himes rebuilt the White Sox franchise in 4 years. He added Thomas, Ventura, Mcdowell, Fernandez, Sosa Johnson and Alvarez. After winning 94 games in 1990 JR didn't renew his contract. Hahn has been here 6 long miserable seasons and has not had one winning season and he keeps his job.  Some people think the White Sox might not have a winning season until 2021/2022.

Edited July 2, 2018 by WBWSF

[pcq]

Let's hear it for Avi whose bat is once again productive.  Hope he can keep it going. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Let's hear it for Avi whose bat is once again productive.  Hope he can keep it going. 

Hoping he can be trade bait in the off-season. Keep it up Avi!

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I find it ironic that JR fired  Larry Himes after the 1990 season and he keeps Hahn as GM. Himes rebuilt the White Sox franchise in 4 years. He added Thomas, Ventura, Mcdowell, Fernandez, Sosa Johnson and Alvarez. After winning 94 games in 1990 JR didn't renew his contract. Hahn has been here 6 long miserable seasons and has not had one winning season and he keeps his job.  Some people think the White Sox might not have a winning season until 2021/2022.

He fired him because it became personal between him and Himes.

To wit: 

On the firing of G.M. Larry Himes in September 1990: “The fact is, Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.” – Jerry Reinsdorf to radio talk show host Chet Coppock. September 1990. 

“The past is gone. The fact we did reach Point C this year doesn’t mean Larry (Himes) wouldn’t have reached it. It does mean we guessed right with Ron (Schueler). I just felt at the time a change was necessary, so let’s not think about anything but the future. We all have a good relationship now.” – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Joe Goddard and Tony Ginnetti. September 28, 1993. Pg. 92.

Also I've been told that down the stretch in 1990 JR and his people were pushing Himes to acquire some vets to help, Himes refused. (Pitcher Mike Scott was the name I was told)

Plus you've got this from my interview with then manager Jeff Torborg:

ML: At the trade deadline the Sox were only three games behind the A’s yet the only thing the organization did was get reserve outfielder Phil Bradley from the Orioles. Were you disappointed especially since there was a lot of talk about the Sox getting guys like pitcher Mike Scott?

JT: “Sure we were disappointed especially since that same day the A’s picked up Harold Baines and Willie McGee. I was sitting in my hotel room when I saw the news come across the TV and I thought ‘how did that happen?’ because we were behind Oakland, we could have put in a claim. At almost the same time I was thinking this I got a call from Jerry Reinsdorf and he asked me “what’s going on?” All I could tell him was that I didn’t know.”

“And you mentioned Mike Scott…this is the first time I’ve ever heard anything like that. If that’s true that just goes to show you that I wasn’t involved in everything that may have been going on. (Author’s Note: ESPN’s “Baseball Tonight’s” lead anchor Dave Marash reported when Larry Himes was fired in mid-September, that part of the reason was, that he wasn’t interested in trading any of his minor league talent for more highly regarded players for the stretch drive. This apparently caused a wedge between him and ownership.) 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Lip Man 1

[southsider2k5]

White Sox last in cluster luck...

https://thepowerrank.com/cluster-luck/

[Eminor3rd]

5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I find it ironic that JR fired  Larry Himes after the 1990 season and he keeps Hahn as GM. Himes rebuilt the White Sox franchise in 4 years. He added Thomas, Ventura, Mcdowell, Fernandez, Sosa Johnson and Alvarez. After winning 94 games in 1990 JR didn't renew his contract. Hahn has been here 6 long miserable seasons and has not had one winning season and he keeps his job.  Some people think the White Sox might not have a winning season until 2021/2022.

It's almost as if there's more to the job of General Manager than the team's record.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's almost as if there's more to the job of General Manager than the team's record.

Larry Himes did do a very quick rebuild and won 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball. JR didn't like him, but pound for pound, his GM performance with the White Sox is as good as anybody's. 

[Eminor3rd]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Larry Himes did do a very quick rebuild and won 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball. JR didn't like him, but pound for pound, his GM performance with the White Sox is as good as anybody's. 

Sure, but how did he do with merchandise sales? Were group ticket sales up or down? Were there any substantial stadium lease negotiations? Did he get along with his director of corporate partnerships? Did they hit their sponsorship goals? How did the player development staff feel toward him? Were the players' facilities kept up during his tenure? How about the fan facilities? How about the field itself? Did the irrigation system hold up? Was there an increase in parking or ticket prices? If so, how did it go over? How went the team's relationships with local media over that period of time? Did they spend more or less on transportation and hotels for then players? Were concession sales up or down? How did White Sox charities perform over that span? Did the scouts respect him? Was he focused on the professional development of his staff? Didi the cost of employee benefits rise or fall? Was he able to convert significant corporate relationships into cost-saving assets for the business?

I don't know the answer to any of that. But WBSWSF seems to think the job of General Manager is very simple and that it's weird that no one that works there seems to see all of the obviously correct decisions right in front of them.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

White Sox last in cluster luck...

https://thepowerrank.com/cluster-luck/

But they are right at the top in cluster fucks.  Sorry had to.

Edited July 2, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
punctuation

[greg775]

7 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Hoping he can be trade bait in the off-season. Keep it up Avi!

My opinion is Avi and Abreu can and should be the cornerstones of our WS teams. Do you all agree? Please put some thought into it before a one liner blasting me. It makes TOO MUCH SENSE to do it my way. Leadership (yes). Speaking/relating to half our roster which is spanish (yes half). Getting clutch hits cause they are Sox true and through. Key hits! GO SOX! You need veterans. These are the two, folks. Or should be. Fire Hahn immediately if he trades them.

[Eminor3rd]

Fun fact: Avisail Garcia, in 118 plate appearances this year, has a 0.0% walk rate.

[greg775]

30 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Fun fact: Avisail Garcia, in 118 plate appearances this year, has a 0.0% walk rate.

He and Abreu are approaching at bats like guys sick of playing for hopeless teams. Hacking away. Can't say I blame them but they are making zillions of dollars so I'd agree with anybody who would be upset at them for not having good at bats.

[Bob Sacamano]

42 minutes ago, greg775 said:

My opinion is Avi and Abreu can and should be the cornerstones of our WS teams. Do you all agree? Please put some thought into it before a one liner blasting me. It makes TOO MUCH SENSE to do it my way. Leadership (yes). Speaking/relating to half our roster which is spanish (yes half). Getting clutch hits cause they are Sox true and through. Key hits! GO SOX! You need veterans. These are the two, folks. Or should be. Fire Hahn immediately if he trades them.

If you think they should be with us long-term, how much money and how many years are you committing to each?

[greg775]

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

If you think they should be with us long-term, how much money and how many years are you committing to each?

Jose is an unrestricted free agent in 2020. So I would offer him 17 million for 2019, the final year of his contract. Then I'd let him become a free agent and I'd bid with the rest of the teams. If you guys are correct in that he's declining declining declining, well, our offer should be right there with everybody else's. Who the hell is going to offer him some Verlander-type deal? Nobody. Now if we feel so inclined and want to offer him a contract before his runs out? I'd offer 17 to 18 mill a year for 3 years. If we have to go four years, fine. That's it for his one and only multi-year deal as a big leaguer. Four years at 18 million a year.

If he demands more than 4, then let him walk even though I'd cry. Even though I love him. So in short, 17 mill to Jose A next season, then let him become free agent; if we decide to offer before he becomes free agent, between 17 and 18 mill a year for 3-4 years. Again, you all point out he's old and already in decline. If so ... what team is gonna offer way more than that???? NONE.

Avi: Free agent in 2020 like Jose A. Well ... next year is arbitration for him again. If he has a good end of the season and is not broken down (hammies are tough) by the end of the year, give him $9 or 10 million for his final season as a White Sox. If he rips his hammy again and is out for 2 more months or something, I guess we'd have to assess what the hell is going on and is he broken down?

If he finishes strong or even if he finishes average, go ahead and offer him the 9-10 mill next season. No more than 12 mill. Let him become a free agent. Again ... if what you all say is correct and he's just another guy ... we won't have to out bid anybody by much. I am not a complete fool thus Avi still has some work to do before he gets the 4 year deal at 15-20 mill a year. Let's say he finishes this year strong or at least healthy ... go ahead and give him 9-10 million for next season, no more than 12 million. Now he's a free agent at the end of the year.

Offer him 14 million a year for 4 years. If somebody is completely enamored with Avi and offers him 20 to 22 mill for 4 years, I concede sadly to let him walk. UNLESS of course he's putting up last year's numbers to that point. There's a lot of baseball still to be played before he's a free agent. If he's putting up MVP numbers through the end of the 2019 season, go ahead and offer him 20 mill a year for 5 years. I guess if somebody wants him bad enough to steal him away in free agency at 25 mill a year for 4-5 years, let him walk. Don't go higher than 20 mill a year for 5 years. He does have injuries in his history thus if somebody wants to give him one of those wacky 7 year deals at 26 mill a year, unfortunately bye bye Avi. There is some risk with him. Thus he must sign a fair deal to both parties which could max out at 20 mill a year for 5 years IF he continues to be the Avi of last year and the last week.

I do think both players should anchor our WS teams. I really do. They are perfect candidates to be the two White Sox veterans to lead us to greatness. My guess is they will remain White Sox unless one of the rich teams decides they have to have one of them and pay ridiculous contracts.

Edited July 3, 2018 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

Don't want any part of Avi long term. None what so ever.

[knightni]

12 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Fun fact: Avisail Garcia, in 118 plate appearances this year, has a 0.0% walk rate.

Looking at the box score from last night...

The entire young roster of hitters is made up with players that have poor strike zone recognition and don't walk enough,

Davidson

Moncada

Anderson

Palka

Engel

(Delmonico, Sanchez, Rondon, Thompson, L. Garcia)

A. Garcia is back to his 2016 ways.

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, knightni said:

Looking at the box score from last night...

The entire young roster of hitters is made up with players that have poor strike zone recognition and don't walk enough,

Davidson

Moncada

Anderson

Palka

Engel

(Delmonico, Sanchez, Rondon, Thompson, L. Garcia)

A. Garcia is back to his 2016 ways.

Davidson, Moncada, & Anderson aren’t the problem.  Those three have all been good to respectable in terms of drawing walks.  It’s the fact the rest of the roster (with Delmonico out) is well below average.

[knightni]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Davidson, Moncada, & Anderson aren’t the problem.  Those three have all been good to respectable in terms of drawing walks.  It’s the fact the rest of the roster (with Delmonico out) is well below average.

They  may not be a problem, but they have holes in their games that don't help.

 

When your BB:K is 1:3+ that doesn't help the team.