35thstreetswarm Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 So, I'm seeing the answer to my original question as: (1) nobody can come up with a single instance of a major free agent (not end-of-career short-term deals) turning down real money because of "history" or any other non-monetary considerations, but (2) lots of people are willing to repeat, without any evidence, the conventional wisdom that it happens all the time. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: So, I'm seeing the answer to my original question as: (1) nobody can come up with a single instance of a major free agent (not end-of-career short-term deals) turning down real money because of "history" or any other non-monetary considerations, but (2) lots of people are willing to repeat, without any evidence, the conventional wisdom that it happens all the time. Thanks! What you asked for in the first place is too hard to prove. . It's not like teams come out and say well we came in 2nd place in the bidding or we offered more but they turned it down. It makes them look like sore losers or petty. That kind of info is just not readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 56 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: And why do players like opt outs so much?? $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the chance to also win a championship. Like I said in the 1st place have their cake and eat it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don't know about that...the basic financial terms come out pretty regularly. Everyone knew how much the Tigers overpayed for Magglio, for example. The ins and outs of the Heyward deal were well publicized (and a good example where it appeared -- contrary to normal practice -- that he may have taken less money, though that turned out to not really be accurate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: I don't know about that...the basic financial terms come out pretty regularly. Everyone knew how much the Tigers overpayed for Magglio, for example. The ins and outs of the Heyward deal were well publicized (and a good example where it appeared -- contrary to normal practice -- that he may have taken less money, though that turned out to not really be accurate). Yea the terms of the winning deal are easy enough too find but all other offers aren't. If it was easy you would've done you're own research instead of asking others to disprove your point. Money is always the main motivator but when you're talking about the difference between 330M and 350M its much easier to take the lesser deal when other things like winning a championship or, it being your home town, or your wife's preference or dozens or other things are taken into consideration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yea the terms of the winning deal are easy enough too find but all other offers aren't. If it was easy you would've done you're own research instead of asking others to disprove your point. Money is always the main motivator but when you're talking about the difference between 330M and 350M its much easier to take the lesser deal when other things like winning a championship or, it being your home town, or your wife's preference or dozens or other things are taken into consideration. No, the basics of the competing offers get out, too (as in the examples I gave). I did do my own research and found nothing at all - looks like I'm not alone. So I'm back to my original belief (also supported by simple logic) that nobody is giving up $20M because they like a team's "history." I'll be shocked if Machado or Harper take anything but the highest bid. Edited August 31, 2018 by 35thstreetswarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) And you are taking that history comment out of context as I said before it was just a sidebar to the position that winning a championship such as the Yankees winning history and current strong position as a contender is also very important to many many players. If you were Machado or Harper do you take a $350M offer from the White Sox in their current state or a $330M offer from the current Yankees and all the spotlight that comes for being a great player in the media capital of the world and play on the same field as Babe Ruth , Lou Gehrig , Joe Dimaggio , Mickey Mantle etc etc. if those are the best 2 offers you get ? And in what world do the White Sox outbid the teams like the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers or even the Phillies for the best players in the world ? The Sox are going to rely heavily on their pitching and will in no way shape or form spend a shit load of money on 1 position player . They will try to spread their dollars out among position players. If what I am saying doesn't play out please feel free to use this post over and over to force me to eat crow in the future. Edit : If the competing offers get out too and you said you gave examples but I don't see any that you gave. except for saying Heywards didnt count. There have been a literally hundreds of free agent contracts given out ver the years and I didn't see one example where you said this team won the bidding with this offer and this team came in 2nd with this offer and gave links for your research. but still you say competing offers get out too. Edited August 31, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside more content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: and the chance to also win a championship. Like I said in the 1st place have their cake and eat it too. The next player to tell his agent "Try to get me some opt outs so I can switch teams if we aren't winning in 2-3 years" will be the first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: Opt outs will be a huge part of their contracts IMO. And my prediction is when the hot stove opens up this winter, Nightengale will report then Sox aren't interested in providing opt-outs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: The next player to tell his agent "Try to get me some opt outs so I can switch teams if we aren't winning in 2-3 years" will be the first. Again it is not just the money it is both combined. Money is the prime motivator I'd be an idiot not to admit that but not the only one.. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that. I'll look you up when Machado and Harper get big money and from a contender because thats how its going down. If us the Padres or any other team in the bottom 12 or 13 get either one of them i'll concede you win. Edited August 31, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 8 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said: The Mariners have never even been to the World Series. The Angels were about 13 years past from winning it. The Pujols deal being so ridiculous is the whole point. When the big big money gets offered, winning takes a back seat. It's not selling the player short. They are human beings. We all take jobs looking to make the most money possible, so do they. It's also about respect, being paid what you think you deserve compared to your peers. I won't speak to the M's, who had stunk for a long while prior to signing Cano, but below are the Angels w/l the 10 years prior to signing Pujols. They were consistently one of the best teams in baseball and a perennial contender/playoff team. Over a 10 year window they averaged 91 wins (909-711 record over that time; +198 games over .500). Post Pujols and Hamilton they became far more mediocre (even than they had a 98 win season back in 2014 followed by an 85 win season in 2015). Year: Wins 2011: 86 2010: 80 2009: 97 2008: 100 2007: 94 2006: 89 2005: 95 2004: 92 2003: 77 2002: 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Edit : If the competing offers get out too and you said you gave examples but I don't see any that you gave. except for saying Heywards didnt count. There have been a literally hundreds of free agent contracts given out ver the years and I didn't see one example where you said this team won the bidding with this offer and this team came in 2nd with this offer and gave links for your research. but still you say competing offers get out too. Are you seriously asking for citations to prove to you that there are times when the high bid wins a bidding war? If you’re looking for examples of free agents who signed for the best contract offered, I’d start with “all of them.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: And you are taking that history comment out of context as I said before it was just a sidebar to the position that winning a championship such as the Yankees winning history and current strong position as a contender is also very important to many many players. If you were Machado or Harper do you take a $350M offer from the White Sox in their current state or a $330M offer from the current Yankees and all the spotlight that comes for being a great player in the media capital of the world and play on the same field as Babe Ruth , Lou Gehrig , Joe Dimaggio , Mickey Mantle etc etc. if those are the best 2 offers you get ? And in what world do the White Sox outbid the teams like the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers or even the Phillies for the best players in the world ? The Sox are going to rely heavily on their pitching and will in no way shape or form spend a shit load of money on 1 position player . They will try to spread their dollars out among position players. If what I am saying doesn't play out please feel free to use this post over and over to force me to eat crow in the future. Edit : If the competing offers get out too and you said you gave examples but I don't see any that you gave. except for saying Heywards didnt count. There have been a literally hundreds of free agent contracts given out ver the years and I didn't see one example where you said this team won the bidding with this offer and this team came in 2nd with this offer and gave links for your research. but still you say competing offers get out too. I honestly think the vast majority of players take the $350 million offer, $20 million is still a lot of money to turn down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: I honestly think the vast majority of players take the $350 million offer, $20 million is still a lot of money to turn down. The vast majority might . But we are talking Machado and Harper 2 great players who haven't won a World Series yet. And the vast majority will never receive those kind of offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Again it is not just the money it is both combined. Money is the prime motivator I'd be an idiot not to admit that but not the only one.. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that. I'll look you up when Machado and Harper get big money and from a contender because thats how its going down. If us the Padres or any other team in the bottom 12 or 13 get either one of them i'll concede you win. Or maybe the contender offered the most money too? And the Padres signed the biggest free agent last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: The vast majority might . But we are talking Machado and Harper 2 great players who haven't won a World Series yet. And the vast majority will never receive those kind of offers. Alex Rodriguez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Watching Benintendi out there makes me wish Hahn could get a do-over on the Sale trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 49 minutes ago, tray said: Watching Benintendi out there makes me wish Hahn could get a do-over on the Sale trade. Not me. If benintendi was in that trade we would have gotten less. Basabe might end up being a special player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I would guess that Carlton Fisk was the most prominent FA to sign here. Not a lot of others besides Abreu. Joey Belle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said: Or maybe the contender offered the most money too? And the Padres signed the biggest free agent last season. If you are talking about Hosmer he had already won a World Series . It always makes a difference. Are you trying to support my argument now. That falls in line with everything I said. Edited September 1, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 22 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said: Alex Rodriguez Ancient history . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 11 hours ago, tray said: Watching Benintendi out there makes me wish Hahn could get a do-over on the Sale trade. With regard to that trade, I'd imagine the choices were Benintendi/Groome/filler or Moncada/Kopech/Basabe/Diaz. The upside on the latter package is MUCH higher than the upside on the former. Moncada has Top 5 position player in the game potential, and Kopech has ace potential. Not to mention Basabe. Diaz is always hurt so whatever with him. I take the package the Sox took 10 times out of 10. The bust risk is higher, but the potential is MUCH higher. The Sox could end up with a Top 5 position player in the game and an ace from that package alone, and chances are they're getting at least one of those two players. Easy choice. Benintendi is going to be a really good player for a long time, but both Moncada and Kopech have a chance to be HOF players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 10 hours ago, pcq said: I would guess that Carlton Fisk was the most prominent FA to sign here. Not a lot of others besides Abreu. Joey Belle? Floyd Bannister was also huge for the time. The Sox outbid 16 other teams for him. Steinbrenner was so pissed he publicly said he regretted not voting to let DeBartolo by the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Floyd Bannister was also huge for the time. The Sox outbid 16 other teams for him. Steinbrenner was so pissed he publicly said he regretted not voting to let DeBartolo by the Sox. Yes "million dollar" Floyd was a big out bid for the Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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