2018 White Sox catch-all thread

[soxfan49]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The Cubs spent something like half a billion dollars in contracts on the free agent market before they got their title.

But how many did they sign from 2010-2013 when their rebuild was beginning?

[fathom]

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

But how many did they sign from 2010-2013 when their rebuild was beginning?

Well signing Feldman paid off huge 

[soxfan49]

Greg’s argument seems to be taking place in the future. If Moncada, Jimenez and Kopech were in the majors and crushing it, fine, he’d have a case. But right now? what would be the benefit of that, aside from the “benefit” of winning 78 games?

Edited May 8, 2018 by soxfan49

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

But how many did they sign from 2010-2013 when their rebuild was beginning?

Edwin Jackson. They really wanted Anibel Sanchez, but he went to Detroit. And, believe it or not, they came in 2nd for one James Shields. 

 

A couple more landmines Theo avoided.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Just now, soxfan49 said:

But how many did they sign from 2010-2013 when their rebuild was beginning?

More than the White Sox.  Included in that stretch are guys like David Dejesus, Kerry Wood coming back, Edwin Jackson come to mind pretty quickly.

[soxfan49]

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

More than the White Sox.  Included in that stretch are guys like David Dejesus, Kerry Wood coming back, Edwin Jackson come to mind pretty quickly.

I’m referring to impact FA’s, not bridge guys. 

If you and Greg would have been happy with s*** signings like those, then I guess we’re arguing 2 different points.

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Edwin Jackson. They really wanted Anibel Sanchez, but he went to Detroit. And, believe it or not, they came in 2nd for one James Shields. 

 

A couple more landmines Theo avoided.

So, one? The Sox signed Welington Castillo so I guess Greg should be excited and stop complaining

[Dick Allen]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Last year on June 14 Cleveland was 31-31. They won 102 games.

 

6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

I’m referring to impact FA’s, not bridge guys. 

If you and Greg would have been happy with s*** signings like those, then I guess we’re arguing 2 different points.

So, one? The Sox signed Welington Castillo so I guess Greg should be excited and stop complaining

It wasn't for lack of effort. The Cubs were in some tough financial times. Ricketts was leveraged to the hilt. The Sun Times beat guy said the bank wanted him to sell the team. He did sell a non controlling portion and got his house back in order.  

 

I would also think a team 31-31 winning 102 games two years in a row would be really rare.  I always get a kick out of it though. When the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the ALCS in  2004 after trailing 3-0, the deal was they were right where they wanted to be against the White Sox down 2-0. The White Sox can't compete this year. I get that. But they better compete next year. Losing 95 games isn't going to do for you what it did in the past.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Dick Allen

[soxfan49]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 

It wasn't for lack of effort. The Cubs were in some tough financial times. Ricketts was leveraged to the hilt. The Sun Times beat guy said the bank wanted him to sell the team. He did sell a non controlling portion and got his house back in order.  

 

I would also think a team 31-31 winning 102 games two years in a row would be really rare.  I always get a kick out of it though. When the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the ALCS in  2004 after trailing 3-0, the deal was they were right where they wanted to be against the White Sox down 2-0. The White Sox can't compete this year. I get that. But they better compete next year. Losing 95 games isn't going to do for you what it did in the past.

I don't think anyone is doubting that the Sox can't lose another 95+ games next year, but to say they should have signed a bunch of FA's to go from a 55 win team to a 70 win team is absurd. If you're going to suck and embrace it, suck and embrace it. 

I think they win 75-80 games next year assuming Kopech and Jimenez start the year with the big league team and probably 85-90 if those 3 guys are really good.

Edited May 8, 2018 by soxfan49

[Whisox05]

 

 

[justBLAZE]

I'm reading it that both raBBit and WSD were told a rotation shuffle was coming.  They read into it one way.

It turned out different.  Just speculating.

[greg775]

5 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

I’m referring to impact FA’s, not bridge guys. 

If you and Greg would have been happy with s*** signings like those, then I guess we’re arguing 2 different points.

So, one? The Sox signed Welington Castillo so I guess Greg should be excited and stop complaining

My point is we won a WS the old way of doing things. Why? One year everything went right (and we still almost blew it late in September). We all will be thrilled if we get one WS out of this rebuild. So why sacrifice 4-6 years of SUCKING totally for the 'chance' we might be dominant and win one WS? We could do it the normal way and acquire good players, develop some of our players and win a crappy division. Once you win the division you could catch lightning like 05 for gosh sakes.

[soxfan49]

13 minutes ago, greg775 said:

My point is we won a WS the old way of doing things. Why? One year everything went right (and we still almost blew it late in September). We all will be thrilled if we get one WS out of this rebuild. So why sacrifice 4-6 years of SUCKING totally for the 'chance' we might be dominant and win one WS? We could do it the normal way and acquire good players, develop some of our players and win a crappy division. Once you win the division you could catch lightning like 05 for gosh sakes.

The Astros and Cubs are going to be dominant for only a few years and win “maybe” one World Series? You actually believe that?

[WBWSF]

Lucas Giolito has been  counted on  to help lead the White Sox to the promised land in this so called "rebuild". His ERA is over .7. He simply can't get anybody out.  If he continues to perform badly I wonder what the team is going to do with him. Will they put him in the bullpen? Or will they send him down to the minors? I find it interesting that the team won't promote Kopech and Jimenez  but they keep Giolito and Engel on the team who aren't producing.

[Iwritecode]

13 hours ago, greg775 said:

My point is we won a WS the old way of doing things. Why? One year everything went right (and we still almost blew it late in September). We all will be thrilled if we get one WS out of this rebuild. So why sacrifice 4-6 years of SUCKING totally for the 'chance' we might be dominant and win one WS? We could do it the normal way and acquire good players, develop some of our players and win a crappy division. Once you win the division you could catch lightning like 05 for gosh sakes.

It took them 88 years to win a WS the "old way". They've only even won this "crappy division" 3 times in 23 years doing things the "old way". They never even snuck in with a WC spot using the old way. Are you really trying to convince us that the old way was working?

Edited May 9, 2018 by Iwritecode

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Lucas Giolito has been  counted on  to help lead the White Sox to the promised land in this so called "rebuild". His ERA is over .7. He simply can't get anybody out.  If he continues to perform badly I wonder what the team is going to do with him. Will they put him in the bullpen? Or will they send him down to the minors? I find it interesting that the team won't promote Kopech and Jimenez  but they keep Giolito and Engel on the team who aren't producing.

No harm in letting Giolito pitch a full season in the rotation. And with Kopech and Jimenez, it might be about wanting 3 years of arbitration instead of 4 of the controllable years. Engel clearly isn't a big league player and obviously a place holder. Don't worry about him.

Edited May 9, 2018 by soxfan2014

[soxfan49]

14 hours ago, greg775 said:

My point is we won a WS the old way of doing things. Why? One year everything went right (and we still almost blew it late in September). We all will be thrilled if we get one WS out of this rebuild. So why sacrifice 4-6 years of SUCKING totally for the 'chance' we might be dominant and win one WS? We could do it the normal way and acquire good players, develop some of our players and win a crappy division. Once you win the division you could catch lightning like 05 for gosh sakes.

Also, do you remember how good the 2005 White Sox were? You're implying that they won 80 games, snuck into the playoffs and went nuts in October.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Lucas Giolito has been  counted on  to help lead the White Sox to the promised land in this so called "rebuild". His ERA is over .7. He simply can't get anybody out.  If he continues to perform badly I wonder what the team is going to do with him. Will they put him in the bullpen? Or will they send him down to the minors? I find it interesting that the team won't promote Kopech and Jimenez  but they keep Giolito and Engel on the team who aren't producing.

They will continue to allow him to pitch every 5th day and work though it.  Not very complicated, and a luxury you have when you're not trying to compete.  

Engel and Giolito are in very different situations. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

They will continue to allow him to pitch every 5th day and work though it.  Not very complicated, and a luxury you have when you're not trying to compete.  

Engel and Giolito are in very different situations. 

This.

I mean we can sit here and name player after player after player who was not an instant star, but after some work finally had the switch go on for them.  Some even take years for it to happen.  There is a reason that these kinds of rebuilds take as long as they do.

Again, if you are trying to make is through this pitch by pitch and AB by AB, you are doing it wrong. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

It took them 88 years to win a WS the "old way". They've only even won this "crappy division" 3 times in 23 years doing things the "old way". They never even snuck in with a WC spot using the old way. Are you really trying to convince us that the old way was working?

88 years comment pretty unfair since you really have no idea how they did things and no free agents or divisions or wildcards most of those years. Sox have never had an ownership group that could be called free spending and many years of tightwad or just lack of money ownership. The 3 times in 23 years was much better.

Edited May 9, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Panerista]

17 hours ago, greg775 said:

My point is we won a WS the old way of doing things. Why? One year everything went right (and we still almost blew it late in September). We all will be thrilled if we get one WS out of this rebuild. So why sacrifice 4-6 years of SUCKING totally for the 'chance' we might be dominant and win one WS? We could do it the normal way and acquire good players, develop some of our players and win a crappy division. Once you win the division you could catch lightning like 05 for gosh sakes.

Regardless of how many Series we are winning or not, we will be a much better team post rebuild even if we don't make the playoffs every year.  

Have you watched the last decade of baseball, greg?  This lightning in a bottle crap sucks.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, AustinIllini said:

Regardless of how many Series we are winning or not, we will be a much better team post rebuild even if we don't make the playoffs every year.  

Have you watched the last decade of baseball, greg?  This lightning in a bottle crap sucks.

 

5 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

It took them 88 years to win a WS the "old way". They've only even won this "crappy division" 3 times in 23 years doing things the "old way". They never even snuck in with a WC spot using the old way. Are you really trying to convince us that the old way was working?

The old way should have worked fine. We won it in 05 and if you recall, everybody had us penciled in for continued sccess. It's the front office's fault for sucking and not keeping us atop a lousy division for years to come. I mean it's not my fault they failed at their jobs. Just as now you are hoping suddenly the front office can get this right doing it this way. I prefer the old way in which we should be good every year and then suddenly in a magic year catch lightning with good players having their career year and us winning it all!!!!

[Iwritecode]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

 

The old way should have worked fine.

 

I prefer the old way in which we should be good every year 

It didn't and they weren't.

Relying on catching lightning in a bottle and hoping a bunch of players have career years all at once is a really bad way to build a champion team no matter what the sport.

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

It didn't and they weren't.

Relying on catching lightning in a bottle and hoping a bunch of players have career years all at once is a really bad way to build a champion team no matter what the sport.

Not really. Not if you are good every year. Makes for enjoyable summers. Then a year or two yo get career years and boom! A WS appearance. This way ... Sox have so many ifs, so much work to do. We shall see.

[Iwritecode]

52 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Not really. Not if you are good every year. Makes for enjoyable summers. Then a year or two yo get career years and boom! A WS appearance. This way ... Sox have so many ifs, so much work to do. We shall see.

Just be good every year. It's so simple! All this time owners and managers have been trying to figure it out. Just be good every year! i can't believe nobody else has thought of this before! Quick somebody get Hahn on the phone!

 

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

Random thought, but if Renteria is gonna keep pulling guys, he better be 100% sure that they're not hustling. That's not really something you can do when it's not for sure and we already only have 2 non-catcher bench players.