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8 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Just to add on, I don't think Chicago has EVER had a young player like Yoan, at least not in my lifetime.  The closest I can think of is maybe young Sammy Sosa?  

After watching Yoan for almost a year, I see him potentially having a ceiling similar to that of Ray Durham.

 

I'd be happy with that.

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18 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

After watching Yoan for almost a year, I see him potentially having a ceiling similar to that of Ray Durham.

 

I'd be happy with that.

Yea similar talent but Yoan has way more power in that bat.  That said, if Yoan has the career Durham had that would be awesome.  Ray was a great player.  Hall of very good type.

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11 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

After watching Yoan for almost a year, I see him potentially having a ceiling similar to that of Ray Durham.

 

I'd be happy with that.

So i’m In my mid 30’s and I recently started trolling a cubs fan forum for old time’s sake.  What you said here is similar to something I’d say over there:

 

SecretJerksticks: “Obviously Lester was never an ace and we all expected him to be a solid #3 this year since he doesn’t have dominant stuff, so what he’s doing this year is frickin awesome.  Enough can’t be said for a guy who can’t even throw a man’s strike and just nibbles off the corners all cheap.  He’s kicking ass this year out of nowhere and to me is our mvp so far.”

 

The above was an exaggeration and would be a bit obvious but it hides a bunch of insults within the guise of fandom.  

Ray Durham comment fees this way.  Well done and good pick but I’m on to you 

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11 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

People are still getting popped and the juicers will always be ahead of the testers. Players aren't brazenly taking Androl and Tren anymore, but they're still doing whatever they can. It's not just baseball though. PEDS are absolutely prevalent in every sport. The bar has been set and there's no turning back. I'd put my life savings on Altuve being juiced to the gills. There's not a doubt in my mind. 

This is why they need to go to the olympic model of blood testing before they enter the sport to get a baseline. That way they do t need to test for anything. They just test to seeif the blood chemistry has changed.

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48 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

After watching Yoan for almost a year, I see him potentially having a ceiling similar to that of Ray Durham.

 

I'd be happy with that.

Wat?

Ray had a career OPS of .788, with an OPS+ of 104.  His first three years in the majors he put up OPS+ of 83, 95, and 91 in 1800ish PAs.

Yoan Moncada is sitting at .735 and 102 OPS+ 600 PAs into his career and hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. 

More accurately Ray Durham may be Yoan's FLOOR, and not his ceiling.  Moncada's ceiling is somewhere more like Roberto Alomar or Robinson Cano.

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11 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

His OBP will jump as he gets a little more selectively aggressive.  Once he builds in umpire respect, that number will go crazy.

This.  I think he gets wrung up on borderline pitches at a remarkable rate.  If he starts to get even just the most questionable of those, it could have a snowball effect.

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17 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

This.  I think he gets wrung up on borderline pitches at a remarkable rate.  If he starts to get even just the most questionable of those, it could have a snowball effect.

Or if they are that close he could hit them. He gets too passive during his slumps.

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2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Or if they are that close he could hit them. He gets too passive during his slumps.

That is definitely true, but I have to say, I would rather he not give in and start swinging at bad pitches.  Unless you are Vlad Guerrero, swinging at pitches out of the zone usually ends up in a bad result for the hitter.

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23 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

That is definitely true, but I have to say, I would rather he not give in and start swinging at bad pitches.  Unless you are Vlad Guerrero, swinging at pitches out of the zone usually ends up in a bad result for the hitter.

I agree with not swinging at bad pitches. However, the borderline ones that he seems to strikeout on aren't that bad. It is a fine line but hopefully he'll learn to not be as passive on those.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Wat?

Ray had a career OPS of .788, with an OPS+ of 104.  His first three years in the majors he put up OPS+ of 83, 95, and 91 in 1800ish PAs.

Yoan Moncada is sitting at .735 and 102 OPS+ 600 PAs into his career and hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. 

More accurately Ray Durham may be Yoan's FLOOR, and not his ceiling.  Moncada's ceiling is somewhere more like Roberto Alomar or Robinson Cano.

While I agree with most of this Durham managed nearly 30 fWAR in his career and had several years with a wRC+ above 115 (OPS+ under rates him a bit because he's OBP heavy).

That said, his best year was 3.9 fWAR.  I think we'd all be miffed if that's as high as Moncada ever gets in a single season.

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9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

While I agree with most of this Durham managed nearly 30 fWAR in his career and had several years with a wRC+ above 115 (OPS+ under rates him a bit because he's OBP heavy).

That said, his best year was 3.9 fWAR.  I think we'd all be miffed if that's as high as Moncada ever gets in a single season.

Sure, and at this stage of his career, he is 10-15 OPS points ahead of where Ray was.  As he gets better, he will surpass that.  He is already in Ray Durhams neighborhood for his career.

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21 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Just to add on, I don't think Chicago has EVER had a young player like Yoan, at least not in my lifetime.  The closest I can think of is maybe young Sammy Sosa?  

Shawon Dunston

Javier Baez

Sosa was nothing close to a power hitter...it was all projected. He was The Panther and more known for his right arm and defense. Juan Gonzalez was the one everyone in the Rangers’ organization was looking at as a .300/30+/100 RBI guy.  And Sosa’s walk rates were abysmal.  Like Uribe, breaking balls off the plate when down in the count killed him.

 

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22 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fangraphs is doing their trade value column this week.  Moncada hasn't shown through the first 30-50.   I'm not sure he'll be on there this year.  Tatis Jr is #39 tho.  Devers is #45. 

I am sure he'll be on there. 

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Their list seems bad this year.  I don't get it.  Some really puzzling decisions.  In general they seem way too willing to use projections for some guys (Tatis Jr) and then relying too much on recency bias for others (Odubel Harrara).  

I don't think there are many GMs that would trade Harrara straight up for Moncada.  In fact I don't think there is a single one.

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