flavum Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Ground out in his 700th Sox plate appearance. 236 k, over 33 percent rate, but you already knew that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Yoan Moncada is worth 1.0 WAR in 105 games played. David Bote is worth 1.2 WAR in 30 games played. Something is absolutely rotten on the South Side of Chicago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) If Eloy comes up and has a similar start to his career i might have to leave baseball for a while Edited August 9, 2018 by reiks12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, reiks12 said: If Eloy comes up and has a similar start to his career i might have to leave baseball for a while You might want to leave baseball for a while. I don't think that Eloy is going to strike out as much, but he's probably going to strike out a lot, and not walk nearly as much as Moncada. It wouldn't shock me if Eloy starts out his first half season hitting .230-.240. AAA.. Means. Nothing. If this works, it will be closer to the KC Royals where it takes 3 seasons for the hitters to figure it out. This isn't a Cubs thing. Even the Astros were in between the Cubs and Royals. Of all of the guys the Cubs had, whether traded or kept, they had 1 massive disappointment(Russell) and one non-major leaguer(Soler) Everyone else is more than solid. That is lucky as hell, but after 9 decades of failure something had to give. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: You might want to leave baseball for a while. I don't think that Eloy is going to strike out as much, but he's probably going to strike out a lot, and not walk nearly as much as Moncada. It wouldn't shock me if Eloy starts out his first half season hitting .230-.240. AAA.. Means. Nothing. Why in the world do you think that? I have no idea why you’re so down on Eloy when he has done nothing but hit since joining this organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why in the world do you think that? I have no idea why you’re so down on Eloy when he has done nothing but hit since joining this organization. Because he plays for the White Sox. We don't get nice shiny new toys. We're the red headed stepchild of baseball. I have zero faith in this organization to develop hitters. I gave them a chance with Moncada and they're failing him. I get that Eloy is more highly regarded but to me he and Avi were/are very similar as prospects. I have no doubt that if Moncada were still with the Red Sox he'd look a hell of a lot better than he does here. This organization is clueless about player development. They haven't developed anyone from scratch that had a 5+ year career since Brandon McCarthy. it is approaching a decade and a half of utter incompetence. Every one who questioned whether the current FO was the correct choice to identify talent and acquire and develop it so far has been proven correct. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Because he plays for the White Sox. We don't get nice shiny new toys. We're the red headed stepchild of baseball. I have zero faith in this organization to develop hitters. I gave them a chance with Moncada and he's failing. I get that Eloy is more highly regarded but to me he and Avi were/are very similar as prospects. WTF? I like you Jack, but I have no idea what similarities you see between Avi & Eloy. Jimenez is arguably the second best hitter in the minors right now after Vlad Junior. Avi was never in the same stratosphere as a hitter or prospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You might want to leave baseball for a while. I don't think that Eloy is going to strike out as much, but he's probably going to strike out a lot, and not walk nearly as much as Moncada. It wouldn't shock me if Eloy starts out his first half season hitting .230-.240. AAA.. Means. Nothing. If this works, it will be closer to the KC Royals where it takes 3 seasons for the hitters to figure it out. This isn't a Cubs thing. Even the Astros were in between the Cubs and Royals. Of all of the guys the Cubs had, whether traded or kept, they had 1 massive disappointment(Russell) and one non-major leaguer(Soler) Everyone else is more than solid. That is lucky as hell, but after 9 decades of failure something had to give. Out of every single player in our rebuild group Eloy is the one who could be ready from Day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: WTF? I like you Jack, but I have no idea what similarities you see between Avi & Eloy. Jimenez is arguably the second best hitter in the minors right now after Vlad Junior. Avi was never in the same stratosphere as a hitter or prospect. Avi didn't have good game power in the minors but he hit damn near .400 for half a season in AAA before getting called up to the Sox. It means nothing. If Moncada isn't going to see 96 mph fastballs consistently in the minors neither is Eloy. Which means that take minor league stats with a grain of salt. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Avi didn't have good game power in the minors but he hit damn near .400 for half a season in AAA. It means nothing. 41 games is half a season now? Is this the NBA? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Out of every single player in our rebuild group Eloy is the one who could be ready from Day 1. He's the most likely to be that guy, I agree, but because it is this particular organization I doubt it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: 41 games is half a season now? Is this the NBA? Was it only 41 games? I thought it was closer to 70. Sorry If I was mistaken. Anyway, If Eloy had a half season in AA with the Cubs before getting traded I'd feel much better about him. Because he did most of his growing in the Sox system, I'm skeptical. The fact that he only got to Low A with the Cubs makes me more iffy about him as a prospect. White Sox trained position prospects are notoriously under prepared for the Majors. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Was it only 41 games? I thought it was closer to 70. Sorry If I was mistaken. Anyway, If Eloy had a half season in AA with the Cubs before getting traded I'd feel much better about him. Because he did most of his growing in the Sox system, I'm skeptical. The fact that he only got to Low A with the Cubs makes me more iffy about him as a prospect. White Sox trained position prospects are notoriously under prepared for the Majors. I understand all of these common talking points too. I’m still excited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: I understand all of these common talking points too. I’m still excited Moncada's struggles have severely tempered my excitement. If you would have asked me during the ASB when it looked like Moncada had turned a corner you would have had a completely different answer from me. I really expect an Avi type start from all of the Sox top hitters now. This is the same reason I rail on Trubisky in the NFL thread. White Sox position prospects and Bears QBs have a long list of epic failures. You assume they suck until proven otherwise. I let my guard down with Moncada. I'm not making that mistake again. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I feel ya. Maybe look at the forest beyond the trees a bit. If only 1 of Moncada/Madrigal is an above average major leaguer the Sox are in great shape. Both? Mercy. The future outfield has an excellent chance of being one of the most productive outfields ever assembled. I think somebody on here should already be trying to assemble a top 5 or 10 outfields of all time list. We’re coming for them, with a wrecking ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: I feel ya. Maybe look at the forest beyond the trees a bit. If only 1 of Moncada/Madrigal is an above average major leaguer the Sox are in great shape. Both? Mercy. The future outfield has an excellent chance of being one of the most productive outfields ever assembled. I think somebody on here should already be trying to assemble a top 5 or 10 outfields of all time list. We’re coming for them, with a wrecking ball. Moncada has to explode or Madrigal has to turn into Rod Carew or forget it. I know they're loaded in the OF but it isn't as deep as I thought. I thought they were 8-10 deep there. Jimenez Robert Basabe Rutherford Adolfo Gonzalez I'd feel better if either Basabe or Rutherford could vault themselves into future stud status like the 1st two. Skeptical about Basabe because he switch hits. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) It is perfectly acceptable for a pretty talented young Major league player to have a bad, uncharacteristic half-season while he is adjusting to the major leagues. This is essentially what we are talking about here, right? I mean through the first half, he was a very up and down .739 OPS hitter. He was .750 last year. So if we accept the premise that a .743 cumulative OPS would be an acceptable place for him to be at offensively in 2018, which I do, what we are actually left with is this current, 18 game, second half outlier where he is looking completely lost. Can we maybe just suppose this is an 18 game outlier? Edited August 9, 2018 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: It is perfectly acceptable for a pretty young Major league player to have a bad, uncharacteristic half-season while he is adjusting to the major leagues. This is essentially what we are talking about here, right? I mean through the first half, he was a very up and down .739 OPS hitter. He was .750 last year. So if we accept the premise that a .743 cumulative OPS would be an acceptable place for him to be at offensively in 2018, which I do, what we are actually left with is this current, 18 game, second half outlier where he is looking completely lost. Can we maybe just suppose this is an 18 game outlier? What concerns me is that it has just gone ridiculously south on him. Moncada is 9/74 with 33 K since the ASB. That is absolutely putrid. It isn't just 18 games. In May he hit .197 In June he hit .205 July was .231 .107 through a week in August. His April props up his entire season, in which he hit .273. Since May 1 he's below Mendoza. Roughly half of a season. Also, He hit .188 in July and August last year. Evidence is mounting he's either nowhere near ready or completely overmatched at the MLB level. I looked this all up at Fangraphs. He had a hot streak in September 2017 and April 2018 but otherwise it has been a whole lot of bad. September 2017-April 2018: 55/203 for a .270 BA with 77 K The rest of his time in the majors with the White Sox: 81/414 for a .195 BA. and 191 K His wRC+ is down to 89 for the season. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Moncada has to explode or Madrigal has to turn into Rod Carew or forget it. I know they're loaded in the OF but it isn't as deep as I thought. I thought they were 8-10 deep there. Jimenez Robert Basabe Rutherford Adolfo Gonzalez I'd feel better if either Basabe or Rutherford could vault themselves into future stud status like the 1st two. Skeptical about Basabe because he switch hits. And Steele Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) https://sports.yahoo.com/yes-yoan-moncada-striking-lot-000712552.html https://theathletic.com/464893/2018/08/08/on-pace-to-set-mlb-strikeout-record-yoan-moncada-knows-he-has-to-adjust-his-approach/?source=dailyemail Edited August 9, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Lillian said: And Steele Walker And Alex Call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 is Call really a legit prospect for a legit team starting MLB job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Just now, caulfield12 said: is Call really a legit prospect for a legit team starting MLB job? At the beginning of the season I would've said no... but he has put up a really strong season, even after his promotion. I think he has made himself into a real prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: You might want to leave baseball for a while. I don't think that Eloy is going to strike out as much, but he's probably going to strike out a lot, and not walk nearly as much as Moncada. It wouldn't shock me if Eloy starts out his first half season hitting .230-.240. AAA.. Means. Nothing. If this works, it will be closer to the KC Royals where it takes 3 seasons for the hitters to figure it out. This isn't a Cubs thing. Even the Astros were in between the Cubs and Royals. Of all of the guys the Cubs had, whether traded or kept, they had 1 massive disappointment(Russell) and one non-major leaguer(Soler) Everyone else is more than solid. That is lucky as hell, but after 9 decades of failure something had to give. Guys arriving at different times and peaking late into service times reminds me of the 90s White Sox. I really hope our Championship window truly opens in 2020 to avoid a small window of contention like in the 90s. These 2018 ML performances by Moncada, Giolito, Anderson, Lopez, Fulmer sure haven't done enough to make me feel like 2020 could be a reality. Kind of feels like a lost season in that sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Keith Law: Quote I have been the relative skeptic on [Moncada] - still ranking him in the top 20, but never buying him as the #1 prospect or even a top ten guy. His swing and miss issues are real and were always predictable. He has enormous athleticism and upside, but I couldn't predict he would get to it. I would still bet on him having a long career as a regular who is very up and down year to year. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jose Abreu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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