Moncada

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Moncada has struck out 169 times this season. Nine more k's than Joey Gallo! He is going to set the all time record for most strikeouts in a season at this pace. 

This season has been an absolute train-wreck. I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that they have seen Moncada improve this year. 

His ceiling is looking more and more like Starlin Castro with each passing day and that is downright frightening. 

 

[southsider2k5]

DO THIS MORE!  TAKE THE HITS! FORCE THE IF TO COME IN!

 

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

DO THIS MORE!  TAKE THE HITS! FORCE THE IF TO COME IN!

 

A bunt is as good as a walk. ?

[southsider2k5]

Just now, ptatc said:

A bunt is as good as a walk. ?

A bunt is better.  It changes the infield defense and creates confusion.

[Eminor3rd]

25 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

Moncada has struck out 169 times this season. Nine more k's than Joey Gallo! He is going to set the all time record for most strikeouts in a season at this pace. 

This season has been an absolute train-wreck. I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that they have seen Moncada improve this year. 

His ceiling is looking more and more like Starlin Castro with each passing day and that is downright frightening. 

 

Moncada and Castro are so different that this comparison is hilarious. They have like almost opposite sets of tools. All of one's strengths are the other's weaknesses.

Castro = insane hit tool that plays down due to excessive aggressiveness/lack of discipline, middling power, middling speed, excellent arm but poor defensive instincts

Moncada = fringey hit tool that should play up due to excellent discipline, but needs to add aggressiveness, big time power, elite speed, fringey arm but good range and instincts.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Eminor3rd

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Moncada and Castro are so different that this comparison is hilarious. They have like almost opposite sets of tools. All of one's strengths are the other's weaknesses.

Castro = insane hit tool that plays down due to excessive aggressiveness/lack of discipline, middling power, middling speed, excellent arm but poor defensive instincts

Moncada = fringey hit tool that should play up due to excellent discipline, but needs to add aggressiveness, big time power, elite speed, fringey arm but good range and instincts.

BUT BUT BUT BUT MONCADA SUCKS!!!

Love,

Tom@gmail

[Greg Hibbard]

using terms like "trainwreck" and "awful" to describe Moncada's 2018 season show absolutely no understanding of the game of baseball

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

using terms like "trainwreck" and "awful" to describe Moncada's 2018 season show absolutely no understanding of the game of baseball

How so? This is a serious question. It isn't like he's been historically bad like Dunn or Davis, but whatever he's putting up is nowhere near good.

[Jose Abreu]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

How so? This is a serious question. It isn't like he's been historically bad like Dunn or Davis, but whatever he's putting up is nowhere near good.

But the bold is also just not true. I wouldn't call it good but I wouldn't say he's nowhere near it either. At worst he's a slightly below average player right now. 

[SonofaRoache]

11 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

But the bold is also just not true. I wouldn't call it good but I wouldn't say he's nowhere near it either. At worst he's a slightly below average player right now. 

I think since he was the top prospect and headliner in the Sale trade being below average has a different context. If Engel gets to just below average status we'd be real happy. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think since he was the top prospect and headliner in the Sale trade being below average has a different context. If Engel gets to just below average status we'd be real happy. 

Right, I agree with you, but the quote I was discussing was purely about his 2018 season. If this is who he is forever, then I'd be disappointed, but I believe that he will improve. 

[Jack Parkman]

23 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think since he was the top prospect and headliner in the Sale trade being below average has a different context. If Engel gets to just below average status we'd be real happy. 

This x infinity. To me, the 1.1 fWAR that he's put up in 2018 qualifies as "barely above replacement level" which is bad. Sorry. You aren't an MLB regular unless you put up at least 2-2.5 fWAR. 

[ChiSox59]

38 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

How so? This is a serious question. It isn't like he's been historically bad like Dunn or Davis, but whatever he's putting up is nowhere near good.

1.1 fWAR and 1.5 bWAR 73% of the way thru a season isn't "awful" or a "trainwreck".  But it certainly is disappointing all things considered.  

[SCCWS]

24 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Right, I agree with you, but the quote I was discussing was purely about his 2018 season. If this is who he is forever, then I'd be disappointed, but I believe that he will improve. 

I would add he does have youth on his side but that is also moving up. 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

1.1 fWAR and 1.5 bWAR 73% of the way thru a season isn't "awful" or a "trainwreck".  But it certainly is disappointing all things considered.  

When you put it into context, it is. Especially since Moncada was the #1 prospect on a lot of lists, and top 10 all except Keith Law's. All of his positive value comes defensively. he's been below replacement level as a hitter. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

This x infinity. To me, the 1.1 fWAR that he's put up in 2018 qualifies as "barely above replacement level" which is bad. Sorry. You aren't an MLB regular unless you put up at least 2-2.5 fWAR. 

Ummmm.  Only 79 players put up 2.5 WAR or higher in the AL last year.  Exclude pitchers and the number is 52.  So tons of everyday AL regulars didn't surpass 2.5 fWAR last season.  

So I don't think your comment really holds much water.  

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ummmm.  Only 79 players put up 2.5 WAR or higher in the AL last year.  Exclude pitchers and the number is 52.  So tons of everyday AL regulars didn't surpass 2.5 fWAR last season.  

So I don't think your comment really holds much water.  

There are a lot of rebuilding teams in the AL so rebuild filler is supposed to be bad. Next. Go look at players on the teams that won 81+ games last year and tell me how many of their main position players were worth less than 2 WAR. Then go look at the 5 playoff teams. He's not been good enough. Listen, I've been defending Moncada for the majority of the season but there comes a point where his performance(or lack thereof) cannot be defended anymore. By almost every metric he's been bad. The I have no idea why WAR grades him there. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

There are a lot of rebuilding teams in the AL so rebuild filler is supposed to be bad. Next. Go look at players on the teams that won 81+ games last year and tell me how many of their main position players were worth less than 2 WAR. 

Lol. You can spin the numbers however you want to fit your narrative that Moncada is a bad baseball player.  Clearly providing you stats that illustrate otherwise doesn't work.

We're all disappointed with his season. We all think he should be better.  We all hope he will improve.  But he hasn't been totally awful or a trainwreck.  But continue on.    

[Jose Abreu]

The math just doesn't work. There are 30 teams with 8.5 starting position players per game (since DH/no DH). That's 255 regulars. Even if you want to cut that number in half and say that only the top half teams should be counted, now you're at 128 regulars when only 52 of them met the threshold. It isn't a fair or accurate lower limit. 

[TaylorStSox]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

There are a lot of rebuilding teams in the AL so rebuild filler is supposed to be bad. Next. Go look at players on the teams that won 81+ games last year and tell me how many of their main position players were worth less than 2 WAR. Then go look at the 5 playoff teams. He's not been good enough. Listen, I've been defending Moncada for the majority of the season but there comes a point where his performance(or lack thereof) cannot be defended anymore. By almost every metric he's been bad. The I have no idea why WAR grades him there. 

Newsflash: Good teams have good players! More at 10. 

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol. You can spin the numbers however you want to fit your narrative that Moncada is a bad baseball player.  Clearly providing you stats that illustrate otherwise doesn't work.

We're all disappointed with his season. We all think he should be better.  We all hope he will improve.  But he hasn't been totally awful or a trainwreck.  But continue on.    

Go look at my posts earlier in the thread. I'm not saying he is what he is, I'm talking about only his 2017-2018 seasons. I truly believe he could easily settle in as a 5+ WAR player, with the potential to put up 7-10 WAR seasons. I'm one of his biggest fans on this board. Go look at my profile he's my favorite current player. I think it is likely he gets much better as time goes on. Moncada is incredibly raw for a 23 year old. I get that. To say that his 2018 season hasn't been a trainwreck or awful is flying in the face of logic. It's ok to call a spade a spade. Nowhere does it say that if you say he's been awful this year, you're not allowed to still root for him/believe that he'll turn it around. But for his 2018 season in a vacuum, he's been bad. Saying otherwise is just making excuses for him.  I can't make excuses for him anymore.  The dude oozes talent. He's probably got more physical tools than anybody in the bigs outside of Trout. It all comes down to the batting average for Moncada, and if he makes contact the rest will take care of itself. He's probably always going to strike out at least 150-175 times per season. 

'

Edited August 15, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

30 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Go look at my posts earlier in the thread. I'm not saying he is what he is, I'm talking about only his 2017-2018 seasons. I truly believe he could easily settle in as a 5+ WAR player, with the potential to put up 7-10 WAR seasons. I'm one of his biggest fans on this board. Go look at my profile he's my favorite current player. I think it is likely he gets much better as time goes on. Moncada is incredibly raw for a 23 year old. I get that. To say that his 2018 season hasn't been a trainwreck or awful is flying in the face of logic. It's ok to call a spade a spade. Nowhere does it say that if you say he's been awful this year, you're not allowed to still root for him/believe that he'll turn it around. But for his 2018 season in a vacuum, he's been bad. Saying otherwise is just making excuses for him.  I can't make excuses for him anymore.  The dude oozes talent. He's probably got more physical tools than anybody in the bigs outside of Trout. It all comes down to the batting average for Moncada, and if he makes contact the rest will take care of itself. He's probably always going to strike out at least 150-175 times per season. 

'

He's been awful in the sense that you clearly expected a former #1 prospect to be much more dominant at this stage in his career.  But I've provided you the numbers.  Based on pretty much any calculation of WAR, Moncada is on pace for 1.5-2 WAR season.  That is very much an everyday regular and it isn't awful or a trainwreck.  You just expected him to be great right away, so being a merely an average everyday regular early in his career is horrible in your eyes.  

I don't care to go in circles anymore.  I don't think he's been particularly good this year and I am (very) disappointed, but I am also patient.  At worst, he's been an average overall player this season.  Even if he never improves on his current shortcomings, he'll still have a long career in the big leagues as an average to slightly above average regular.  

[Steve9347]

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

I don't think he sucks per se, but I do think he's had a massively disappointing season. I'd feel better if he was hitting.240-.249 with the same numbers.

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He's been awful in the sense that you clearly expected a former #1 prospect to be much more dominant at this stage in his career.  But I've provided you the numbers.  Based on pretty much any calculation of WAR, Moncada is on pace for 1.5-2 WAR season.  That is very much an everyday regular and it isn't awful or a trainwreck.  You just expected him to be great right away, so being a merely an average everyday regular early in his career is horrible in your eyes.  

I don't care to go in circles anymore.  I don't think he's been particularly good this year and I am (very) disappointed, but I am also patient.  At worst, he's been an average overall player this season.  Even if he never improves on his current shortcomings, he'll still have a long career in the big leagues as an average to slightly above average regular.  

Not if he continues the terrible trend from the last 4-6 weeks...it’s more likely to be 0.5 than 2.5 in that sense.