Moncada

[Chicago White Sox]

50 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

David Bote already has a higher WAR than Moncada this year and Bote has only played in 34 games! 

Quit living in the past with Moncada. His #1 prospect days are ancient history. 

Lol...your obsession with flukey performances is very impressive!

[footlongcomiskeydog]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Did you just call somebody a hater? I've never seen you post something positive. Not once. In fact, you have more than 1 account just to hate. That's just weird, dude. 

I have positive posts. They just aren't in the Moncada thread cause there hasn't been much to be positive about with him this year. 

More than one account? LMAO. More nonsense. 

 

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I’m not saying they’re alike. You missed my point. I’m saying that extremely good players have somewhat bad seasons, and extremely bad stretches of seasons. 

Well, we’ll see what happens next year. I’m trying not to get lumped in with the crazies- I do think Moncada will come around. I just think the lack of contact and bad approach shouldn’t keep him in Chicago anymore. He should go down for the rest of the Charlotte season, and then see if he deserves to come back.

[Greg Hibbard]

But if we all concede that he’s gotten hosed on probably 20, maybe even close to 30 called strikes that should have been balls, his k rate comes down significantly. Nobody can argue he hasn’t at least gotten “unlucky” with called third strikes, which is something that just doesn’t show up in the stat line.

 If even 10 at bats change from strikeouts to walks it has a 6 point effect on BA and a 20 point effect on OBP.

now imagine a year he was “lucky” in that department 

[The Sir]

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

But he's smart enough to not take a Ron-like approach to Abreu, otherwise it would be obvious that he just hates Cubans 

This is dumb. Moncada was a super highly regarded prospect who looked pretty nice and shiny, but also struck out a lot in the minors. Luis Robert is a super highly regarded prospect who looks pretty nice and shiny, but also strikes out a lot in the minors. Maybe you're joking about the Cuban thing, but it's not crazy to see similarities and be a little unnerved by them.

[The Sir]

42 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The same Albies who has a sub-685 OPS over the last month? No, I'm not ready for that.

I really can't understand this. Small sample size is a constant defense of Moncada. But now, a small sample of an otherwise terrific season is an argument against Albies? AYFKM?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, The Sir said:

I really can't understand this. Small sample size is a constant defense of Moncada. But now, a small sample of an otherwise terrific season is an argument against Albies? AYFKM?

Who cares about Albies. I’m not sure why he continues to be brought up in this thread. He’s irrelevant to Moncada.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I’m not saying they’re alike. You missed my point. I’m saying that extremely good players have somewhat bad seasons, and extremely bad stretches of seasons. 

I don't get your argument man. Are you trying to say that Moncada is already an extremely good player? If so, then you have some pretty low standards.

Moncada has to prove that he is a good player. So far he has been nothing but hype.

Also, you can't just throw out his bad months and say he is having a good year. Every team would have 5-7 all stars if we just threw out all the bad stretches of their season.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

I don't get your argument man. Are you trying to say that Moncada is already an extremely good player? If so, then you have some pretty low standards.

Moncada has to prove that he is a good player. So far he has been nothing but hype.

Also, you can't just throw out his bad months and say he is having a good year. Every team would have 5-7 all stars if we just threw out all the bad stretches of their season.

Just as they can't throw away the bad months and say he is having a good year, you can't throw away his good moments and say he has been nothing but hype. He has given people enough good plate appearances to say he can progress and become a good player. 

[SCCWS]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Some of you need to get a serious grip on reality. 19 starts ago Moncada was at .234 BA with a .733 OPS and is going through a particularly brutal stretch during his rookie season. It’s almost as if some of you have never watched the game of baseball before. God forbid you should have to suffer through something like, I dunno, the 2003 season of Paul Konerko without jumping off of the freaking ship and screaming bloody murder every 15 friggin seconds. Get a damned grip. A 20 game BRUTAL stretch of yes bad play but also VARIANCE in a HIGH VARIANCE game is....normal? Especially for an extremely young major league player. Newsflash: rookies gonna play bad sometimes.  Yeesh

It is more than a 20 game brutal stretch. He hit .274-April, .205- May, .197-June .231-July .182-August.  Luckily he had a solid April.   He is not extremely young by today's standards but he is fairly new to US baseball. 

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Did you just call somebody a hater? I've never seen you post something positive. Not once. In fact, you have more than 1 account just to hate. That's just weird, dude. 

I hate everything, I even hate you too....So fuck you. 

Cut you down, cause I'm a fool, being positive is so uncool. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I hate everything, I even hate you too....So fuck you. 

Cut you down, cause I'm a fool, being positive is so uncool. 

Nice. Good tune and band.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Nice. Good tune and band.

Well if the shoe fits.......Anyway Ixnay on the Hombre and Americana are on my list of top 10 90s albums.  Love  The Offspring. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[footlongcomiskeydog]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I hate everything, I even hate you too....So fuck you. 

Cut you down, cause I'm a fool, being positive is so uncool. 

The Offspring were my first big rock concert experience.

Spring of 95 at the Aragon. Quicksand and No Use for a Name opened up.

I saw a dude get a popcorn size tub of beer spilled on his head and a brawl break out within the first 30 minutes lol. Good times.

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, The Sir said:

I really can't understand this. Small sample size is a constant defense of Moncada. But now, a small sample of an otherwise terrific season is an argument against Albies? AYFKM?

No, my point is that Ozzie Albies hasn't been that good since May (I used the last month because it happened to be a little worse). Yet to the Longo's of the world, he's some sort of cult god even though Moncada has a much higher ceiling. 

[Lillian]

Short of replacing Stevenson, whom could the Sox assign to work with Moncada, to try to fix whatever is "broken"? His approach is not working, and he is going to need to make some adjustments. The most discouraging thing to me, is that I don't see him making any changes. He continues to do the same thing and with the same results. There are many things, which he could try; including choking up more, especially with 2 strikes, move around in the batter's box, start being more aggressive, especially with 2 strikes, try hitting to the opposite field, etc. It is just insane to continue to do what he is doing. This has to be shattering his confidence. The Sox better do something, before they ruin this young man. So far, all I've seen is that he has been moved down to #8 in the order. That is not going to be enough of a change.

[caulfield12]

Here you go, right along with Kipnis...exactly in the middle of the pack for MLB 2B

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

Of course, the problem is that it has been all downhill since April 23 when he was already around 1.8!

 

Are people really saying they’d STILL prefer Moncada at 1.1 compared to a 3-4 fWAR and picking 4th-6th instead???

Edited August 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

Short of replacing Stevenson, whom could the Sox assign to work with Moncada, to try to fix whatever is "broken"? His approach is not working, and he is going to need to make some adjustments. The most discouraging thing to me, is that I don't see him making any changes. He continues to do the same thing and with the same results. There are many things, which he could try; including choking up more, especially with 2 strikes, move around in the batter's box, start being more aggressive, especially with 2 strikes, try hitting to the opposite field, etc. It is just insane to continue to do what he is doing. This has to be shattering his confidence. The Sox better do something, before they ruin this young man. So far, all I've seen is that he has been moved down to #8 in the order. That is not going to be enough of a change.

I’d fire Renteria and bring a guy who might bring some tough love (Girardi could be an option).  I’d let the new manager bring on new hitting coaches and hopw different voices get through to him.  If after a month next year we see no progress, I’d use that final option and send him down to AAA to work through changes in a low stress environment.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Wanne]

4 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

But if we all concede that he’s gotten hosed on probably 20, maybe even close to 30 called strikes that should have been balls, his k rate comes down significantly. Nobody can argue he hasn’t at least gotten “unlucky” with called third strikes, which is something that just doesn’t show up in the stat line.

 If even 10 at bats change from strikeouts to walks it has a 6 point effect on BA and a 20 point effect on OBP.

now imagine a year he was “lucky” in that department 

Agreed. Plus...it’s about time Ricky starts sticking up for his star pupil more. Since he’s so fond of getting tossed lately...make it be for a purpose. This is getting to be bullshit. To Moncadas credit he hasn’t blown a gasket yet on some of these asshats behind the plate. 

[Eminor3rd]

11 hours ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

The Offspring were my first big rock concert experience.

Spring of 95 at the Aragon. Quicksand and No Use for a Name opened up.

I saw a dude get a popcorn size tub of beer spilled on his head and a brawl break out within the first 30 minutes lol. Good times.

RIP Tony Sly

[ptatc]

11 hours ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

The Offspring were my first big rock concert experience.

Spring of 95 at the Aragon. Quicksand and No Use for a Name opened up.

I saw a dude get a popcorn size tub of beer spilled on his head and a brawl break out within the first 30 minutes lol. Good times.

Stuff like that happened there all the time in the 80s and 90s  (can't vouch for later than that). Isn't wasn't called the Brawlroom for nothing.

[NWINFan]

I have no idea of what is being told to Moncada by the Sox coaching staff. But I would tell him two things.

First, forget the hype and don't be concerned about being a superstar. Learning to be a major league baseball player is damned hard. He should give himself some time and worry about accolades later. In the meantime his focus should be on developing into a solid middle infielder.

Secondly, be more aggressive with two strikes. Established major league hitters will get the benefit of the doubt from an umpire. Rookies will not. Putting the ball in play should be a top priority right now. His average may go up a tad if some bleeding grounders make it through the infield or a shallow flyball drops in the outfield. Taking a third strike and walking back to the dugout gives him no chance especially when he does it four times in a game.

It is too early go give up on the guy. It is not too early to be concerned.

 

[ron883]

17 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

But he's smart enough to not take a Ron-like approach to Abreu, otherwise it would be obvious that he just hates Cubans 

We all know based on your username, you are unable to have a unbiased opinion on Abreu. You irrationally love him.

[southsider2k5]

I guess when it comes down to it, there is just a group of posters who can't handle the fact that the rebuild will take time, and that players might take some time to hit their potential.  It happens.  If you are so caught up in just looking at strikeouts and OPS to not see that Moncada has superstar talent in him, then you aren't watching baseball the right way.  Moncada is still a pretty raw player.  He also appears to be a super headstrong kid who, despite obviously having the entire White Sox coaching staff telling him to be more aggressive, hasn't been willing to listen to them, at least until this point.

The thing that gives me more faith in him than in most are what his specific problems are.  His strike outs are hugely exaggerated by refusing to swing at pitches which are even a spec of dust out of the strike zone.  This is a problem that is much easier to fix than the problem of guys who chase out of the zone.  Even just having the umpires give him the respect he deserves on the zone will make a huge difference.  He will gain 50 OPS points just from that.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I guess when it comes down to it, there is just a group of posters who can't handle the fact that the rebuild will take time, and that players might take some time to hit their potential.  It happens.  If you are so caught up in just looking at strikeouts and OPS to see that Moncada has superstar talent in him, then you aren't watching baseball the right way.  Moncada is still a pretty raw player.  He also appears to be a super headstrong kid who, despite obviously having the entire White Sox coaching staff telling him to be more aggressive, hasn't been willing to listen to them, at least until this point.

The thing that gives me more faith in him than in most are what his specific problems are.  His strike outs are hugely exaggerated by refusing to swing at pitches which are even a spec of dust out of the strike zone.  This is a problem that is much easier to fix than the problem of guys who chase out of the zone.  Even just having the umpires give him the respect he deserves on the zone will make a huge difference.  He will gain 50 OPS points just from that.

+1 Great post. My criticisms, again, are related to the 2018 season only. Nobody's happy that Moncada has a .218 BA. I think that if the Umps start giving him respect on the zone, more hits will follow when pitchers know they can't nibble vs him and get the benefit of the call. The Umps have a lot to do with his poor season. The only question is whether he'll ever get that benefit from the Umps  I think it is pretty likely that he can turn it around if pitchers are forced to throw pitches in the strike zone vs. him. Right now, he's getting basically 1 pitch to hit every 2-3 PA. Not a lot of hitters are going to do anything with the pitches that Moncada is seeing. As long as pitchers know they can nibble against him and are going to get them called strikes, there isn't much he can do. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman