Moncada

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The need for people to write off prospects as quickly as possible is quite amazing.  Before Moncada went down with his injury, the kid was incredibly productive (.868 OPS / wRC+ 140) and was top two in exit velocity.  While there was BABIP luck fueling those numbers, the power was beyond legit.  He was also one of the highest rated defenders at 2B and I believe the highest rated base-runner in all of baseball.  To say he was flashing superstar potential would be a massive understatement.  What has happened since then I’m not sure and clearly his overall game is suffering from him pressing on the offensive side, but I will never doubt a kid with this much ability.  Maybe he never reaches his ceiling, but I’m going to give a lot more time to figure his shit out because we’ve already seen what it looks like when everything is clicking.

This.  I will never get how so many of the same people who cried for a rebuild for years, and are acting like we are still in go for it mode with the pitch to pitch evaluations of everyone in the entire system on a daily basis.  If you can't handle erratic play, bad slumps, horrible fundamentals, and bad IQ baseball, you probably shouldn't root for a rebuild.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

The kid is striking out 35% of the time and has an OPS barely above 700. That is no bueno. 

He is a paper tiger until proven otherwise. All the "tools" in the world don't matter if you can't put them to use. 

I wonder what the Padres would say if we tried to trade him straight up for Tatis Jr...

 

You are Moncada troll at htis point.  All of your posts are about him.  Give it up. 

[SoxAce]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You are Moncada troll at htis point.  All of your posts are about him.  Give it up. 

It's getting embarrassing really.

[TaylorStSox]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You are Moncada troll at htis point.  All of your posts are about him.  Give it up. 

Yeah, that guy just doesn't like Yoan and won't just come out an say it. If you just don't like somebody, just admit it and move on. To this day, I can't stand AJ and never will. Whatever. 

[footlongcomiskeydog]

41 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Nope, everyone needs to be superstars right away or else they're busts.

 

The irony is that everyone's favorite young players (Torres, Andujar, Albies) all have major issues. Torres is the worst defensive 2B in baseball, Andujar is the worst defensive 3B in baseball, and Albies forgot how to play baseball. 

Dude, Gleyber Torres is two years younger than Moncada and is already a better player. I would argue that Torres is light years ahead of Moncada at the plate right now. The kid is scary good and is looking like a generational talent. 

Albies is also two years younger and already a better player.

No one is writing Moncada off completely yet, but this excuse that not all development is linear is getting lame. He is getting lapped by his peers. Let's hope he can catch up with them and become the stud that he was projected to be. 

 

 

 

[Lillian]

While some of the comments are full of hyperbole, there is justifiably some concern. The question regarding the viability of him remaining a switch hitter, is certainly valid. My hope that he could become a Henderson/Raines type Super Lead off hitter is quickly evaporating. If he is going to stubbornly stick to this "3 outcome" approach, he is better suited as a middle of the order hitter. That's not the end of the world, but it certainly diminishes the use of his talent.

[greg775]

56 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This.  I will never get how so many of the same people who cried for a rebuild for years, and are acting like we are still in go for it mode with the pitch to pitch evaluations of everyone in the entire system on a daily basis.  If you can't handle erratic play, bad slumps, horrible fundamentals, and bad IQ baseball, you probably shouldn't root for a rebuild.

It's hard to judge players when we fans know little to nothing about their psyche. How much they want it. The eye test tells me Moncada will be great on offense and defense. He needs to work though. His hitting from the one side needs work/improvement.

[ChiSox59]

I mean, I think we're all a little frustrated with Moncada.  But the talent is there, and we just need to give it time.  He'll come around. 

[TaylorStSox]

23 minutes ago, Lillian said:

While some of the comments are full of hyperbole, there is justifiably some concern. The question regarding the viability of him remaining a switch hitter, is certainly valid. My hope that he could become a Henderson/Raines type Super Lead off hitter is quickly evaporating. If he is going to stubbornly stick to this "3 outcome" approach, he is better suited as a middle of the order hitter. That's not the end of the world, but it certainly diminishes the use of his talent.

Or maybe you can just give him some time to figure out the strike zone first. My God. We've become such a culture of instant gratification. 

[jasonxctf]

I find myself guilty of the Moncada roller coaster too. Get too high when he does well, and get too low when he doesnt. 

I try and force myself to remember... what he does in 2018 doesnt matter. If he hits .300 this year, that doesnt mean he's going to hit .300 when we need him to. (2019, 2020, 2021, etc) Guys get better or worse over time. 

What's important now, is that he learns and improves month by month. So then when it really matters/counts, he's a reliable player,

 

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Or maybe you can just give him some time to figure out the strike zone first. My God. We've become such a culture of instant gratification. 

 

[Jake]

I see what people are saying with the "robotic" comments. I've always thought to myself that he seems stiff when he swings, like there's no way he could change how much bend he has at the waist. Of course, some players get themselves in trouble because they can't keep their posture so steady. But there are some guys who can reach out and get a pitch that's either out of the zone or they were initially fooled on because they can maneuver their bodies without losing their ability to make contact.

You can see below where (as a LHH) he makes contact along what roughly corresponds to the angle of his bat through the zone and drops of precipitously outside that area.

It's a little different as a RHH — he covers the top of the zone better — but it's a similar pattern.

[BlackSox13]

3 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Or maybe you can just give him some time to figure out the strike zone first. My God. We've become such a culture of instant gratification. 

Most logical post in this thread. Well done and I could not agree more. 

[Lillian]

It's worth differentiating between results and the approach. Perhaps some of us would be more patient, if we saw him trying to have a better approach. Again, contrast what he is doing, with Anderson's recent performance. While Tim is still hitting for power, he is also taking a lot of those outside pitches to right field. That is the kind of approach, which I am hoping to see with Moncada. 

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Lillian said:

It's worth differentiating between results and the approach. Perhaps some of us would be more patient, if we saw him trying to have a better approach. Again, contrast what he is doing, with Anderson's recent performance. While Tim is still hitting for power, he is also taking a lot of those outside pitches to right field. That is the kind of approach, which I am hoping to see with Moncada. 

Contrast what is being said now about Anderson with what was being said about him at this point last year.

[caulfield12]

Well, we don’t know for sure...but something very strange was going on with umpires seemingly targeting Moncada.  It was over the top, but we haven’t heard of the cause.

[southsider2k5]

 

[fathom]

200 strikeouts in first 568 plate appearances.  That's not good

[Flash Tizzle]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

200 strikeouts in first 568 plate appearances.  That's not good

It's amazing how quickly he deterioated. He's a cornerstone of our rebuild and watching him play is embarrassing lately. How the hell did he become this bad?

[zisk]

           I think it's time to move Yolmer back to 2b. It's either that or send his ass back to Charlotte.

       Some one has got to get his attention and let him know he is no longer the chosen one. 

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, zisk said:

           I think it's time to move Yolmer back to 2b. It's either that or send his ass back to Charlotte.

       Some one has got to get his attention and let him know he is no longer the chosen one. 

If his fielding continues to suck, wouldn't shock me at all if they demote him to send a message.

[greg775]

People never talk about his attitude. Whether it's good or not. 

[Jose Abreu]

Why are we stuck in 1954, thinking that his fielding is bad because of a completely subjective stat that doesn't take into account any sort of play made that the average fielder wouldn't make. We've made progress with fans finally accepting that batting average has little meaning in modern baseball, so why do people choose to ignore the vast array of new defensive statistics and base opinions off of one outdated, extremely flawed stat? I care as much about a player's error count as I do how many sandwiches they eat. It is really so subjective and a limited indicator of defensive skill that I'd argue it's even less relevant than batting average. 

 

If you watch the games, it's obvious that he sometimes botches an easy play, but he'll iron those out and he makes up for it with his incredible range. He's a top 5 defensive 2B in baseball per Fangraphs. Even if you disagree with that, I think it's very clear that he's an above average fielder at this point in time. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Why are we stuck in 1954, thinking that his fielding is bad because of a completely subjective stat that doesn't take into account any sort of play made that the average fielder wouldn't make. We've made progress with fans finally accepting that batting average has little meaning in modern baseball, so why do people choose to ignore the vast array of new defensive statistics and base opinions off of one outdated, extremely flawed stat? I care as much about a player's error count as I do how many sandwiches they eat. It is really so subjective and a limited indicator of defensive skill that I'd argue it's even less relevant than batting average. 

 

If you watch the games, it's obvious that he sometimes botches an easy play, but he'll iron those out and he makes up for it with his incredible range. He's a top 5 defensive 2B in baseball per Fangraphs. Even if you disagree with that, I think it's very clear that he's an above average fielder at this point in time. 

Started off the year great defensively. The last month has been a total disaster.  Making a tough play is nice, but you can't be botching the most routine of grounders 2-3 times a week.  It's demoralizing for pitchers, and we've seen quite a few of his errors lead to big innings.

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Why are we stuck in 1954, thinking that his fielding is bad because of a completely subjective stat that doesn't take into account any sort of play made that the average fielder wouldn't make. We've made progress with fans finally accepting that batting average has little meaning in modern baseball, so why do people choose to ignore the vast array of new defensive statistics and base opinions off of one outdated, extremely flawed stat? I care as much about a player's error count as I do how many sandwiches they eat. It is really so subjective and a limited indicator of defensive skill that I'd argue it's even less relevant than batting average. 

If you watch the games, it's obvious that he sometimes botches an easy play, but he'll iron those out and he makes up for it with his incredible range. He's a top 5 defensive 2B in baseball per Fangraphs. Even if you disagree with that, I think it's very clear that he's an above average fielder at this point in time. 

This may be true but the strikeouts are very alarming and with this pitching staff those errors especially on "easy" plays are causing them trouble because often they can't pitch around them. No one is arguing about his potential but also keep in mind this was the #1 prospect in all of baseball, consensus across the board, to see him struggling like this gets your attention. This wasn't a 17th round draft pick or a minor league free agent. This was supposedly the top guy.

Now add in the Sox issues with developing everyday players (non-pitchers) for the last 15 years and fair or not fans start to think, "they're screwing up another kid...again."