Moncada

[The Sir]

And the HUGE difference being Jose Altuve- even in 2011- made contact with balls in the strike zone 96% of the time- his career contact rate on balls in the strike zone is almost 94%. Moncada is 76%. I want Moncada to be great one day but the odds are really stacked against him. Major swing and miss issues- just like Schwarber. And that stat historically is pretty much set after 300 AB- it doesn't change much. Like DNA...Maybe he just needs glasses. But the Z-contract rate of pretty much anyone that has a long career in MLB is at least 85%.

 

What is the progression of Kris Bryant’s z-contact rate? Because, without looking at the numbers, he improved his K-rate from approximately 30% in his rookie year to 19% last year.

 

So improvement is totally possible. And even as a Moncada “hater”, I’ve noted it seems like he Ks looking a lot (although I don’t have stats on that). That should improve with time.

[Tannerfan]

He destroyed AAA , what more can he develop there? How to beat up on AAA pitchers?

 

Work on his approach at the plate. Work with “teachers” which is what good teams have as coaches in the minors. Regain his confidence.

And worse case scenario we find out if he’s a AAAA player and move on.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

He destroyed AAA , what more can he develop there? How to beat up on AAA pitchers?

 

Yep. Moncada turns 23 next month. He is not a raw teenager anymore. He has nothing left to develop in the minors. It is sink or swim time for Mr. Moncada.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

The lesson I learned was don’t rush a player to the majors who isn’t ready.

 

Also, Gordon Beckham was a first round pick and never rated anywhere close to the #1 overall prospect in baseball. Blowing a first round pick should not be franchise altering.

 

We all know who Moncada was traded for. This franchise is looking at another decade plus of dark ages if Moncada flames out.

[Justinsettle]

See Jimenez in 2017 for that.

 

Moncada started out white hot and then fell back to earth. He also didn’t do a great job as RHer against lefties and his K rate was way too high.

 

Bryant is one of the very few that improved his z-contact rate. Hopefully Moncada can too. Unfortunately it just doesn't happen often.

 

[southsider2k5]

He destroyed AAA , what more can he develop there? How to beat up on AAA pitchers?

 

MLB is tough. Some players take time. Some even take years.

[southsider2k5]

What is the progression of Kris Bryant’s z-contact rate? Because, without looking at the numbers, he improved his K-rate from approximately 30% in his rookie year to 19% last year.

 

So improvement is totally possible. And even as a Moncada “hater”, I’ve noted it seems like he Ks looking a lot (although I don’t have stats on that). That should improve with time.

 

Bryant is also a pretty terrible comp for Moncada. Bryant is an older polished college hitter. Growing up in the states, he got exposed to better coaching and to a more solid fundamental base than Moncada did in Cuba. Bryant also made his major league debut at Age 23, even after all of that extra experience.

 

For my two cents if I am going to talk about this kids learning curve, I would rather look for comps with similar backgrounds.

[SCCWS]

Nothing states that an organization has confidence in you like telling you to quit switchhitting or taking you out of the lead off spot in the second week of the season.

 

That may be true but if a player is really struggling, you need to help them. I agree on not dropping the switchhitting ( he is struggling from both sides) but changing the spot in the order may change his mental approach to hitting.

 

By saying we don't want to do anything in case we hurt his confidence, that infers winning is not a priority. In a rebuild, we have to expect less quality but the team still has to try and win. You have to live with young players going through growing pains but you disregard trying to win also. I know there is a fine line and some decisions are difficult to make.

[southsider2k5]

That may be true but if a player is really struggling, you need to help them. I agree on not dropping the switchhitting ( he is struggling from both sides) but changing the spot in the order may change his mental approach to hitting.

 

By saying we don't want to do anything in case we hurt his confidence, that infers winning is not a priority. In a rebuild, we have to expect less quality but the team still has to try and win. You have to live with young players going through growing pains but you disregard trying to win also. I know there is a fine line and some decisions are difficult to make.

 

Winning is not a priority in 2018. Taking lumps and developing players is the priority for this season, and until the team shows they are close enough to the playoffs to have a realistic chance at winning.

[greg775]

Maybe direct those numbers to the people who agreed with you a week ago, because those same people are starting to change their minds. I don't really care about exit velocity if you're barely making contact, because at that K rate, he'll be middle of the pack soon.

 

If you don't think he's struggling, why did Renteria say he was last night? Why were Abreu and Garcia seen talking to him? Don't they know about exit velocity?

 

As much as I'd like to say no one is saying he sucks and will never be successful, it seems like some people are saying that. I'm not one of them. I'm strictly pointing out that he has been underwhelming NOW and is struggling NOW.

Greg is as negative as anybody and I'm not worried about Moncada (I am mad at Ricky for f***ing with him batting him leadoff; STUPID!!). Back to the point ... I am not a fan of Hahn yet and dislike KW and Jerry (cant say I 'hate' them cause of WS title which turned out to be a lightning in bottle fluke) but Moncada passes my eye test. If he stays healthy and is coachable (get an experienced f***ing hitting coach who knows what he's doing WHITE SOX!!) he'll be fine. That is coming from negative Greg, folks.

 

I'm very sad about Avi's lousy hitting. Again I blame Ricky. Davidson also is regressing. Sucks.

[SCCWS]

Winning is not a priority in 2018. Taking lumps and developing players is the priority for this season, and until the team shows they are close enough to the playoffs to have a realistic chance at winning.

 

Was winning a priority last year?. Because Anderson began the year hitting at the top of the order, struggled in April and was dropped to 7th. Shouldn't Anderson be batting 2nd to get him more AB's and speed his development? I think Renteria makes up a batting order w the intention of winning that game and not appeasing young players. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

That may be true but if a player is really struggling, you need to help them. I agree on not dropping the switchhitting ( he is struggling from both sides) but changing the spot in the order may change his mental approach to hitting.

 

By saying we don't want to do anything in case we hurt his confidence, that infers winning is not a priority. In a rebuild, we have to expect less quality but the team still has to try and win. You have to live with young players going through growing pains but you disregard trying to win also. I know there is a fine line and some decisions are difficult to make.

From the left side: 15.8% BB rate, 36.8% K rate, .156 ISO, .717 OPS, 110 wRC+

 

From the right side: 10.5% BB rate, 52.6% K rate, .059 ISO, .387 OPS, 13 wRC+

 

I wouldn’t say he’s struggling from the left side. Could he be better? Sure. Does he need to be better to offset his right handed issues? Most definitely. But I think it’s clear where the largest problem is stemming from.

[SCCWS]

From the left side: 15.8% BB rate, 36.8% K rate, .156 ISO, .717 OPS, 110 wRC+

 

From the right side: 10.5% BB rate, 52.6% K rate, .059 ISO, .387 OPS, 13 wRC+

 

I wouldn’t say he’s struggling from the left side. Could he be better? Sure. Does he need to be better to offset his right handed issues? Most definitely. But I think it’s clear where the largest problem is stemming from.

 

Agree but the 37% K rate from the left is even worse than last year. Maybe they can sit him against tough lefties to help him out some on the right side.

 

[Dam8610]

Agree but the 37% K rate from the left is even worse than last year. Maybe they can sit him against tough lefties to help him out some on the right side.

 

What? He needs as many PAs as possible.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Ozzie Albies or Yoan Moncada. Who would you rather have anchoring second base for you for the next decade?

[SoxAce]

Soon to be 23 years old is "sink or swim". Lord you can not make this stuff up. I'm just imagining the outrage if Buxton was on this team.

[hi8is]

Tell me when it’s the first of July.

[greg775]

Soon to be 23 years old is "sink or swim". Lord you can not make this stuff up. I'm just imagining the outrage if Buxton was on this team.

It's OK to be critical. Most Sox fans think Moncada will be fine and is just getting used to the bigs. But if somebody wants to be critical, let 'em go for it. It's not like Sox management or any managements care about their fans. Folks, they don't NEED to charge as much as they do for beer and parking. I thought folks on here said TV was the source of all the real money and all that matters. If some want to blast Moncada, why be so sensitive about it? He's a big boy and makes a good buck.

Edited April 14, 2018 by greg775

[SoxAce]

It's OK to be critical. Most Sox fans think Moncada will be fine and is just getting used to the bigs. But if somebody wants to be critical, let 'em go for it. It's not like Sox management or any managements care about their fans. Folks, they don't NEED to charge as much as they do for beer and parking. I thought folks on here said TV was the source of all the real money and all that matters. If some want to blast Moncada, why be so sensitive about it? He's a big boy and makes a good buck.

 

Have you read this thread or are you talking out of your ass again Greg?

[Jack Parkman]

It's OK to be critical. Most Sox fans think Moncada will be fine and is just getting used to the bigs. But if somebody wants to be critical, let 'em go for it. It's not like Sox management or any managements care about their fans. Folks, they don't NEED to charge as much as they do for beer and parking. I thought folks on here said TV was the source of all the real money and all that matters. If some want to blast Moncada, why be so sensitive about it? He's a big boy and makes a good buck.

I still think Moncada will be fine, but that isn't going to stop me from stating that he doesn't pass the eye test right now. When I say "he sucks" with regard to the prospects, it is more like "he sucks right now" That doesn't mean I'm completely writing players off. I just think they look awful currently, and I hope it doesn't continue. For example, I'd like to see Kopech get through 6-8 innings in a start with the Knights, but he continuously only makes it through 4-5. That tells me he's not throwing enough strikes, which is why I think he has greater reliever risk than some here think. It doesn't mean he sucks, it just means I see him as more likely to be a reliever than a starter. It doesn't mean he CAN'T be an ace still, but it means that, in my opinion, there is a higher likelihood that he isn't a starter than he is.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[greg775]

Have you read this thread or are you talking out of your ass again Greg?

I didn't think people were that harsh about Moncada in the thread.

 

I still think Moncada will be fine, but that isn't going to stop me from stating that he doesn't pass the eye test right now. When I say "he sucks" with regard to the prospects, it is more like "he sucks right now" That doesn't mean I'm completely writing players off. I just think they look awful currently, and I hope it doesn't continue. For example, I'd like to see Kopech get through 6-8 innings in a start with the Knights, but he continuously only makes it through 4-5. That tells me he's not throwing enough strikes, which is why I think he has greater reliever risk than some here think. It doesn't mean he sucks, it just means I see him as more likely to be a reliever than a starter. It doesn't mean he CAN'T be an ace still, but it means that, in my opinion, there is a higher likelihood that he isn't a starter than he is.

Fair enough. I only get mad when people blast guys when they are doing well. It drives me crazy. Like last year Avi hitting .330 or better and people constantly attacking him last year.

[southsider2k5]

Was winning a priority last year?. Because Anderson began the year hitting at the top of the order, struggled in April and was dropped to 7th. Shouldn't Anderson be batting 2nd to get him more AB's and speed his development? I think Renteria makes up a batting order w the intention of winning that game and not appeasing young players. Maybe I am wrong.

 

Anderson's struggles are not the same as Moncada's.

[Jack Parkman]

Sometimes I contradict myself-I said the following earlier this week in the gamethread when Fulmer started, preaching patience, which I lost yesterday.

 

 

Here's a level-headed Jack Parkman.

Again guys, I'm autistic, Sometimes I view things with rose colored glasses, sometimes I see the worst case scenario. I got frustrated yesterday and didn't follow my own advice, lol. Everyone can laugh at themselves every once in a while.

 

 

 

 

Repeat after me: player development is not a linear function. There are zero guarantees that these guys come up and become stars right away. That is more rare than your typical player development function which is more like a sinusoidal function. Full of peaks and valleys.

 

 

No I'm referring to everyone. Fulmer, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, etc. With all of them it seems like there will be games where they look like a future star and games where they look like a complete bust.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Jose Abreu]

Tell me when it?€™s the first of July.

I'm not blaming anyone, as I am guilty of this too, but you really do need 80-100 games before you can start assessing meaning to rate stats. I am very confident that Moncada will be no worse than .240/.330/.400 by then.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jose Abreu

[hi8is]

Sometimes I contradict myself-I said the following earlier this week in the gamethread when Fulmer started, preaching patience, which I lost yesterday.

 

 

Here's a level-headed Jack Parkman.

Again guys, I'm autistic, Sometimes I view things with rose colored glasses, sometimes I see the worst case scenario. I got frustrated yesterday and didn't follow my own advice, lol. Everyone can laugh at themselves every once in a while.

Self reflection and ownership for the win! Mad respect your way Jack Parkman.